Proof of some on the lefts double standard on Trumps condemning both sides comment

originally posted by: Grambler

Terrible standard.

Your mistake is assuming that antifa only hates KKK and nazis.

The problem is they label everyone they hate as KKK and nazis, and then proceed to attack them.

You are legitimizing them by claiming they are somehow moral.

Tell me, whcih group was this girl, KKK or nazi?

All of thiss talk of ATS legitimizing nazis, and yet I see way more people applauding and cheering for the thugs of Antifa to beat people as somehow moral.

Yeah, a lot of antifa are twats, fewer of them however, than the Nazis and KKK. I'm not saying that the violence is acceptable. And had Captain Bikelock done that in front of me I'd have stopped him myself; that wasn't too short of attempted murder, honestly.

Innocents are getting hurt by both sides and even when antifa goes beyond the pale and begins to look like Nazis themselves, at least they started somewhere positive, the same can't be said for everyone.

originally posted by: eNumbra

originally posted by: Dudemo5
I personally think people are going a bit overboard with the "both sides" criticism, and it would be nice if I could find an article in the MSM that actually gave a realistic, high-level overview of the different groups that showed up at the protest and what their behavior was.

If Antifa showed up at the protest armed for battle and started swinging away, someone should be writing about that.

Link
It's not much for who started it, but are both sides responsible for violence? Yeah. Problem with that sentiment is that Supremacy isn't a peaceful ideology, the threat of Supremacists gaining any sort of power demands response, demands resistance.
Do both sides get violent? Absolutely, but one side hates people who are black, Jewish, gay... etc, while the other side hates the first side.

In my opinion, is the KKK responsible for receiving a punch in the face? No, but also yes.

That article makes it sound like the nazis scheduled a protest where they fully intended to get violent. They came with helmets, shields, guns, and assault rifles. It's wonder nobody started shooting, although one of the counter-protestors claims he was threatened with a gun.

Clearly, the counter protestors also showed up ready to rumble, although there was no mention of them roaming through the streets brandishing firearms.

Apparently the police declared the entire "protest" unlawful before it even began -- I wonder if that had anything to do with the way the nazis were armed.

Next time one of these things is scheduled, the national guard should show up. The instant things get nasty, tear gas and rubber bullets.

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: Grambler
I meant someone like I listed in the OP, media people or politicians.

But ok sure.

Why don't you post them and I will see how that compares to how many people have called Trump a nazi for saying both sides are violent.

Sorry, I don't keep bookmarks of peoples posts. Or have any desire to search it.

Here's the thing, you're equating the partisian hacks on both sides as somehow being representative of the middle. Because there's a group that will cheer any time a Republican gets harmed personally, politically, financially, or anything else... you're using that as being indicative of "the left" which is closer to 30% of the population. There's a group of partisians on the right who cheer for the same things, who also represent about 30% of the population.

Any time you're going to make a comparison, you need to discount that 60% on the edges, because they're just cheering a team. Look at how the people in the middle are reacting. The people in the middle here are appalled that Trump is minimizing his condemnation of the KKK. When Scalise was shot, those same people said he was a victim and didn't deserve it.

Yes and what did these same people "in the middle" say when leftists like Bernie and Pelosi blamed all sides, not just leftists rhetoric for Scalises shooting?

The is an obvious double standard here being lead by the media and other leftists that seek to demonize Trump for calling out all sides, but that was exactly what they did in the scalise shooting.

a reply to: Grambler

Aazadan responded pretty perfectly:

I just said in another thread, you should call people and groups out for specific instances. Any time you ever rationalize something as saying both sides are bad, all you're doing is giving them both a pass. In any interaction one side will be better than the other. Saying they're both equally bad is the same as saying they're equally good.

Trump is trying to play it both ways, he even said there were 'very fine people' on both sides. He has no concept of how to appropriately address issues.

originally posted by: links234
AntiFa is only as violent as the right requires them to be.

It was the nazi's that surrounded those college kids and attacked them with their tiki-torches. It was the nazi's that charged into a group of counter protesters screaming, 'blood and soil.' It was a nazi that rammed his car into a group of people killing Heather Heyer and injuring 19 others.

So something that may or may not have happened now (I have not looked that deeply into who started it recently) excuses Antifi attacking people without provocation multiple times in the recent past?

Antifi is every bit as violent as the supremacists, but gets cover from the media because they only attack nazis... but since they label anyone not in lockstep with them as Nazis that makes it pretty easy to attack folks.

originally posted by: Dudemo5


That article makes it sound like the nazis scheduled a protest where they fully intended to get violent. They came with helmets, shields, guns, and assault rifles. It's wonder nobody started shooting, although one of the counter-protestors claims he was threatened with a gun.

Clearly, the counter protestors also showed up ready to rumble, although there was no mention of them roaming through the streets brandishing firearms.

Apparently the police declared the entire "protest" unlawful before it even began -- I wonder if that had anything to do with the way the nazis were armed.

Next time one of these things is scheduled, the national guard should show up. The instant things get nasty, tear gas and rubber bullets.

I'm vastly more uncomfortable leaving the violence to the government than I am two groups of private citizens.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: Grambler

Democrats have been called socialists or communists with allusions to Stalin and the like being made. Stalin and communists killed millions of people just like Hitler and the Nazi's did.

People say Hillary is a murderous killer or at least a sympathizer with them.

Both sides are guilty of the same exact tendencies and antics. It's tit for tat all the time.

Ok fine.

So which do you believe; that both Trump and all of the dems like Bernie and Pelosi and the litany of other that called out violence on all sides are defending the perpetrators, or that neither are.

originally posted by: Grambler
Hahahaha!

Of course.

All week all we have heard is that the fact that the nazis had weopons proves they wanted violence.

But the antifa people brought weapons merely for defense, they are innocent.

Well how do you know that the nazis didn't bring weapons just for defense. After all, antifa has a hostory of attacking nazis who were not fighting back.

Both sides wanted violence, and both sides are responsible.

They probably did bring weapons mainly for self defense. That's what both sides do. It only takes a lone nut to make violence break out though. Once someone starts shooting, or running people down with a car others are going to react by protecting themselves. I'm actually impressed that there was as little violence as there was, but there was still violence and blame for that lies squarely at the feet of the side that attacked first.

originally posted by: eNumbra

originally posted by: Grambler

Terrible standard.

Your mistake is assuming that antifa only hates KKK and nazis.

The problem is they label everyone they hate as KKK and nazis, and then proceed to attack them.

You are legitimizing them by claiming they are somehow moral.

Tell me, whcih group was this girl, KKK or nazi?

All of thiss talk of ATS legitimizing nazis, and yet I see way more people applauding and cheering for the thugs of Antifa to beat people as somehow moral.

Innocents are getting hurt by both sides and even when antifa goes beyond the pale and begins to look like Nazis themselves, at least they started somewhere positive, the same can't be said for everyone.

Are you seriously trying to rationalize them assaulting people as OK because the movement started with good intention?

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: Grambler
A leftists shot scalise, and people like Bernie, Pelosi, CNN and many others condemned violence from BOTH SIDES.

Bernie and Pelosi are both rather partisian. Of course they're going to minimize it by using the whole both sides are bad routine. In fact, you can always tell when someone is in the wrong because if they go to that defense it means they're trying to minimize the hate their own ideology produced.

Ok thats totally reasonable.

Then you admit that Bernie and Pelosi are as guilty as Trump on this.

So why is the outrage level for Trump so much higher?

Maybe we should just schedule a all out no holds barred matchup between Antifa and the KKK? Do it in a stadium and charge a fee for streaming it live. No spectators allowed in the venue, just the participants.

Bring back the Bread and Circus', for real.

Absurd you say?

Yes isn't it?

a reply to: Grambler

I don't think any of them actually care as much as they try to lead on.

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: Grambler
Hahahaha!

Of course.

All week all we have heard is that the fact that the nazis had weopons proves they wanted violence.

But the antifa people brought weapons merely for defense, they are innocent.

Well how do you know that the nazis didn't bring weapons just for defense. After all, antifa has a hostory of attacking nazis who were not fighting back.

Both sides wanted violence, and both sides are responsible.

They probably did bring weapons mainly for self defense. That's what both sides do. It only takes a lone nut to make violence break out though. Once someone starts shooting, or running people down with a car others are going to react by protecting themselves. I'm actually impressed that there was as little violence as there was, but there was still violence and blame for that lies squarely at the feet of the side that attacked first.

Ok, do you have proof of who attacked first?

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: Grambler
Hahahaha!

Of course.

All week all we have heard is that the fact that the nazis had weopons proves they wanted violence.

But the antifa people brought weapons merely for defense, they are innocent.

Well how do you know that the nazis didn't bring weapons just for defense. After all, antifa has a hostory of attacking nazis who were not fighting back.

Both sides wanted violence, and both sides are responsible.

They probably did bring weapons mainly for self defense. That's what both sides do. It only takes a lone nut to make violence break out though. Once someone starts shooting, or running people down with a car others are going to react by protecting themselves. I'm actually impressed that there was as little violence as there was, but there was still violence and blame for that lies squarely at the feet of the side that attacked first.

And which side was that again? With documented proof (not just your opinion).

Even the local police do not know with that many people screaming at each other.

originally posted by: Irishhaf
Are you seriously trying to rationalize them assaulting people as OK because the movement started with good intention?

I'm saying

since I clearly stated that the violence was unacceptable

that I will simply never be as bothered by Antifa becoming violent as I am the nazis. Yes, I'm biased against nazis.


It's obvious enough that both of these factions wish to kill each other, it'd be wise to stay away from them.

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: Grambler
A leftists shot scalise, and people like Bernie, Pelosi, CNN and many others condemned violence from BOTH SIDES.

Bernie and Pelosi are both rather partisian. Of course they're going to minimize it by using the whole both sides are bad routine. In fact, you can always tell when someone is in the wrong because if they go to that defense it means they're trying to minimize the hate their own ideology produced.

Ok thats totally reasonable.

Then you admit that Bernie and Pelosi are as guilty as Trump on this.

So why is the outrage level for Trump so much higher?

Party because he's Trump, and he has the same antagonistic relationship he's had with the media for the last 35 years, where everything he says and does is news and that's the way he likes it.

Partly because one of the groups involved in the dispute has a long and storied history of racial violence in this country that everyone of us knows by heart, from childhood on, whereas the other is a group most people have probably never even heard of.

Related to the above: partly because most people have an immediate visceral reaction to the KKK and Neo-Nazis.

originally posted by: Grambler
Yes and what did these same people "in the middle" say when leftists like Bernie and Pelosi blamed all sides, not just leftists rhetoric for Scalises shooting?

They said Bernie needed to do more to keep his followers peaceful. It also happened to be a common complaint during the Democrat campaign when you had BLM showing up and making a mess out of Democrat events, or acting as provaceteurs at Republican ones.

Bernie's problem is that he's a relatively decent human being, and he thinks others will act like him and they don't.
Trumps problem is that he's not a decent human being, and therefore doesn't even try to hold people to a higher standard.

originally posted by: eNumbra

originally posted by: Dudemo5


That article makes it sound like the nazis scheduled a protest where they fully intended to get violent. They came with helmets, shields, guns, and assault rifles. It's wonder nobody started shooting, although one of the counter-protestors claims he was threatened with a gun.

Clearly, the counter protestors also showed up ready to rumble, although there was no mention of them roaming through the streets brandishing firearms.

Apparently the police declared the entire "protest" unlawful before it even began -- I wonder if that had anything to do with the way the nazis were armed.

Next time one of these things is scheduled, the national guard should show up. The instant things get nasty, tear gas and rubber bullets.

I'm vastly more uncomfortable leaving the violence to the government than I am two groups of private citizens.

So you think the authorities ought to just let these groups roam freely through the streets attacking innocent people? It seems some attempt ought to be made to take them in, or whatever standard riot protocol includes.

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: Grambler
Yes and what did these same people "in the middle" say when leftists like Bernie and Pelosi blamed all sides, not just leftists rhetoric for Scalises shooting?

They said Bernie needed to do more to keep his followers peaceful. It also happened to be a common complaint during the Democrat campaign when you had BLM showing up and making a mess out of Democrat events, or acting as provaceteurs at Republican ones.

Bernie's problem is that he's a relatively decent human being, and he thinks others will act like him and they don't.
Trumps problem is that he's not a decent human being, and therefore doesn't even try to hold people to a higher standard.

Yep, bernie good, Trump bad.

Got it.

originally posted by: Dudemo5

originally posted by: eNumbra

originally posted by: Dudemo5


That article makes it sound like the nazis scheduled a protest where they fully intended to get violent. They came with helmets, shields, guns, and assault rifles. It's wonder nobody started shooting, although one of the counter-protestors claims he was threatened with a gun.

Clearly, the counter protestors also showed up ready to rumble, although there was no mention of them roaming through the streets brandishing firearms.

Apparently the police declared the entire "protest" unlawful before it even began -- I wonder if that had anything to do with the way the nazis were armed.

Next time one of these things is scheduled, the national guard should show up. The instant things get nasty, tear gas and rubber bullets.

I'm vastly more uncomfortable leaving the violence to the government than I am two groups of private citizens.

So you think the authorities ought to just let these groups roam freely through the streets attacking innocent people? It seems some attempt ought to be made to take them in, or whatever standard riot protocol includes.

How is it so many of you read words that aren't there?

No, don't let them roam the streets, exactly the opposite, corral them together.