My ex just killed himself...

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
I really do think that any lose of innocent life like this is horribly sad and from personal experience I know how painful suicide can be for those left behind.

but......

why post about this on ATS?

I don't want to sound like a total dick but it seems like the new way to get a little bit of popularity, a few stars and a few flags is to post a sob-story.

You do sound like a total dick. Take a look at some of your own threads importance and compare them with someone seeking support and maybe reevaluate things. Seriously, get a grip.

First of all I feel sorry for you about this horrible situation. None of it sounds like your fault, so there is no need to feel like his ex fiance has any right to blame you.

However, you must know whilst your ex fiance didn't want to dodge a bullet, you did.

When you were engaged, he bailed. When he was engaged to someone else, he wanted to bail.
Then he shot himself.
He was the very definition of a coward.

In death, don't let him waste any more of your life.

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
I really do think that any lose of innocent life like this is horribly sad and from personal experience I know how painful suicide can be for those left behind.

but......

why post about this on ATS?

I don't want to sound like a total dick but it seems like the new way to get a little bit of popularity, a few stars and a few flags is to post a sob-story.

It's the relationships forum.
I am not sure why you seem constantly worried about what other people post.

Dude, seriously, seek help.

Firstly my condolences, you were lucky to find love and its a wonderful thing but also can be a painful thing.

You as a logical person should realise that you are not the cause of this, from what you say you did all the right things even though your heart was aching, you could have so easily rekindled the romance and there's a chance that history could have repeated itself so you did the right thing to keep him as a friend, it took a hell of a lot of proper love and bravery to do that, I really feel for you.

I'm afraid you must do the same once more and stay away from this service, it will do you no good and almost certainly would end up with more trauma for you and the family. I expect blame will be pushed towards you by the family but you have nothing to feel blame for, you are as much a victim here as the family and fiancée, he broke your heart and its certain he was going to do the same to her, you have acted with incredible strength and dignity and you must grieve but not blame yourself, you have done nothing wrong.

Try to just remember the good times and slowly in your own time move on, you will meet someone and you will take it from there, there's no promises but at least you must never run from your heart, there's more decent people out there and you should think about giving them a chance but in your own time.

You take care and remember your career, concentrate on that and try not to blame yourself, you really are not the cause of anything here, you were kind and loving, there's nothing wrong in that.

Paul.

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
I really do think that any lose of innocent life like this is horribly sad and from personal experience I know how painful suicide can be for those left behind.

but......

why post about this on ATS?

I don't want to sound like a total dick but it seems like the new way to get a little bit of popularity, a few stars and a few flags is to post a sob-story.

Wow, that's a really harsh thought pattern, sometimes when a person is mostly alone as this young woman describes the best people to reach out to are somewhere you feel comfortable and yes, complete strangers are sometimes the best people to talk to.

I personally don't know the young woman but she's a member here and we all work as a family in a way so when one of the family says they are sad we step in for them and LISTEN and do whatever we can do, its what ATS was and should still be , a place for people to be able to act like normal humans.

I have no reason to believe her story is anything but genuine, its written in a natural loving way, why should I disbelieve her, yes we do get all sorts on here but we normally sort out who is who.

I do understand your thinking to a degree but sometimes there are genuine people out there who need a little help and I believe this young woman is one of them so I hope the family here shows some respect.

Paul

a reply to: Mclaneinc

Thank you for your incredibly sweet advice. And for the backup. Posting on ATS was very helpful. It really did help clear things up for me for the first day after this had occurred. I know it will take time to pick up the pieces and ultimately still have to make a decision once the time comes that his service has been scheduled. I'll be posting an update just from what has happened since yesterday.

Thank you so much, again.

Here is a bit of an update for anyone who wants to know. Not an entire lot has changed over the course of twenty four hours, but thanks to everyone here I feel more level-headed and transparent.

Words cannot express my gratitude to every single one of you that posted in response to my thread. I know there are so many ways one person can think to describe their thankfulness and sincerity when it comes to this sort of thing. I tried to personally respond as much as I could yesterday to each and every one of you...because each one of you was so incredibly sweet and thoughtful to reach out to me after I haphazardly reached out to you all. So, to anyone I didn't directly respond to..or re-respond to..thank you. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

And as Paul said a few posts above mine, I can see now that so many of the ATSers here act as a family. It's like one large family consisting of a lot of people who have incredibly differing views, but at the end of the day if someone is down and out, I've seen now with the response to my calls for help…and to the other threads I've seen describing a member's personal turmoil..that at the end of the day you all show up and you're there for your fellow member. Beliefs and opinions aside, you guys really helped me yesterday when I felt like a lone little castaway on a desolate, barren island. So, again, I wish I could find a more articulate and unrivaled way to say it, but, thank you from the bottom of my heart.

And one final clarification, I saw a couple of posts wondering about my ability to post on here whilst at work. I don't want to divulge too many details obviously for the sake of not giving away my exact location, but I work at an aquarium. Two days a week I don a wetsuit and act as an educator and work hands on with visitors and the marine animals. And even on those days, it rotates with other educators. The rest of the time that it's not those two days or I’m not in rotation, I work in an office setting within the corporate structure, wherein I have very little to do and it is allowed of me to use the internet outside of any pending projects. I hate procrastinating and often finish as soon as I can, with a ‘work hard first and play later’ mentality. That is as detailed as I can be to explain my ability to get on here whilst at work and how I was afforded the ability to post at such lengths yesterday and right now. I hope that clarifies a little better, because, again, I don't like giving too much away about my location for obvious reasons. I had initially planned on ignoring the questioning posts, but you all have taken so much time to aid me in my current struggles, so I really want to return the favor in any way I can.

Now, as far as an update goes, yesterday I received another call from his mother and we were able to talk more. She and I teared up together on the phone but I think she was able to finally understand that I had given her as much information as I had given this tragedy. She hasn't mentioned anything about the planning of an actual service just yet, which makes sense to me because this has all happened so quickly and so suddenly. But, she reiterated that she wants me to come and she did specify that she and his father would be the ones to hold the service, not the fiancé. I am still attempting to decide whether or not I will go though, as I still have that sting of coming face to face with his fiancé.

His mother let me know that she had spoken with his fiancé and she is clearly heartbroken, she is assuming the worst and is under the impression that he and I still had a thing going on behind closed doors. I was quick to tell her that was not the case, furthermore detailing her on my attempts at pushing him to remain with her even if he had called me on numerous occasions voicing his doubts. She said she believed me and I feel okay enough to assume she is telling the truth when she says that. It's his fiancé that I'm certain would need more convincing...

So not an entire lot has changed over the short period from my last posting here yesterday, but I did learn that his mother will be holding the service, I am still welcome but his fiancé is heartbroken and under the impression that he and I were still seeing each other. Given the circumstances...I really feel for her pain. I still am not 100% certain what I will do, but I do plan on keeping everyone updated. As of now, given what I was told about how his fiancé is thinking the way she's thinking, I can only assume I'm the last person she wants to talk to.

I'm sorry for the lengthy post again. If I missed anything...or if I need to clarify, just ask and I will definitely do my best. I'm still shaken by everything, but because of you wonderful and kind people, I feel sane enough to know that it's something that is just going to take me some time to cope with.

Thank you, everyone.

a reply to: ketsuko


Its scary when people threaten to kill themselves, and tell you. 'Usually' though, those that are serious tend to hide their intent while building to it, they don't want to be found out.

Those that do threaten to kill themselves are using that as a control measure.

Do what I say or else.

a reply to: ReyaPhemhurth

So not an entire lot has changed over the short period from my last posting here yesterday, but I did learn that his mother will be holding the service, I am still welcome but his fiancé is heartbroken and under the impression that he and I were still seeing each other. Given the circumstances...I really feel for her pain. I still am not 100% certain what I will do, but I do plan on keeping everyone updated. As of now, given what I was told about how his fiancé is thinking the way she's thinking, I can only assume I'm the last person she wants to talk to.

Mmm... be careful, emotions run high at this time. If you show up, she may behave hostile towards you, is that a scene you really want to be part of, at the service? That could make things even worse.

Despite what anyone tells her those 'missed' calls to you are surely suspicions to her, expectations are she is at least jealous, maybe angry.

My advice is don't attend the funeral service, call the people on the phone like you are doing and give your condolences.

a reply to: ReyaPhemhurth

It seems like such an easy thing to grasp from an outside perspective...but now that I feel like I'm actually in it, my emotions keep playing tug of war with what my brain is doing.

Grieving is a process, one minute you're crying the next you're angry, then looking who to blame, then sad. Different people handle it differently, takes time to work thru it all.

You seem a well adjusted person, doing all the right things...

The grieving process

a reply to: gmoneystunt

Jeez, really. Be 'awful' glad you are rid of that A-type abusive personality.

Some are manipulative beyond all reason. Good riddance.

Shed that anger and bitter emotion left over, be glad they never talk to you ever again.

You'll recognize that kind of person in the future early on and steer clear.

a reply to: ReyaPhemhurth


A very sad story for you.

I don't know why people are criticizing you for writing this in the relationship forum, it is what this forum it for, some posters on ATS have zero empathy for fellow humans, and want to influence the narrative everywhere on ATS, some are even the usual suspects, shameful really.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: ReyaPhemhurth

So not an entire lot has changed over the short period from my last posting here yesterday, but I did learn that his mother will be holding the service, I am still welcome but his fiancé is heartbroken and under the impression that he and I were still seeing each other. Given the circumstances...I really feel for her pain. I still am not 100% certain what I will do, but I do plan on keeping everyone updated. As of now, given what I was told about how his fiancé is thinking the way she's thinking, I can only assume I'm the last person she wants to talk to.

Mmm... be careful, emotions run high at this time. If you show up, she may behave hostile towards you, is that a scene you really want to be part of, at the service? That could make things even worse.

Despite what anyone tells her those 'missed' calls to you are surely suspicions to her, expectations are she is at least jealous, maybe angry.

My advice is don't attend the funeral service, call the people on the phone like you are doing and give your condolences.

And ultimately, if anything prevents me from going to the funeral..that will be it. I, in the end, do not want to cause any harm..and while everyone else would not be offended if I came..at this point, she I'm sure would. And regardless of the finite reasoning for her not wanting me there..as I'm sure there are several if not many...I don't want to cause her any more pain...

a reply to: Blue_Jay33

Thank you for your kindness. I have lurked on here for over eight years and only just made an account at the beginning of this year...so I thought I'd take a gamble and post it in this particular forum. For the most part, the vast majority have not been questioning or have not offered judgement of any kind. Which I appreciate. I'm trying to be as transparent as possible. But thank you for your support. It really helps.

a reply to: intrptr

On top of all the wonderful advice and insight you've already given me...thank you for the link and the offering of external resources. That means a lot to me.

a reply to: ReyaPhemhurth

I know my words come late in the thread, but here you go anyway:

My heartfelt condolences for your loss. I can't say I have ever experienced anything quite like you have, but I have experienced a lot of death through the course of my life, many of which were close to me. None were from suicide tough.

Funerals for are for the living. They are our chance to say a last thought in the presence of the one who has moved on. I passed up a funeral once, because someone else didn't want me there and I ultimately I regret it. You should go and say goodbye. You can stay in the back, keep to yourself, be a wall flower if you feel the need to minimize your presence, but go. The fiance isn't the only one who loved him and has a reasonable right to say goodbye, no matter how uncomfortable she may feel, especially since the mother and father want you there...they need you to be part of the closure because you were a big part of his and their lives..

It would be a pretty natural feeling to feel guilty for not taking that call, but it is not your fault he chose to end his life. He made some poor life decisions that do not reflect on you. We all reject calls for a variety of reasons and it still doesn't make you responsible for not stopping this. Sometimes feeling guilty is a part of one's natural grieving process, so if you must feel guilty, feel guilty that you didn't see it coming or any sign. Then realize that relationships often complicate what and how we see someone and that we are fallible and miss signs and clues and that it's part of what makes us human.

Anecdote: My best friend was going to embark on an endeavor that I knew would result in me never seeing him again. It was a gut feeling. I begged. I pleaded. I threatened. I did everything I could to get him to change his mind and he wouldn't. He went, he died and I never did see him again, well except at his funeral. I felt guilty for years and years over it until one day I realized, sometimes bad, horrible things are going to happen and there's nothing that can stop it.

Did you treat him right? did you listen? did you re-assure? did you try to help the best you could? Were you there when you knew the chips were down? -- We can only try to do our best for those who are part of lives, even when it's complicated or hard...and if you did so, then grieve and move on and try to remember that life is short and uncertain and you have to try and make the best of it and enjoy it as much as possible, because there are no guarantees...and, always eat dessert first.

When my mother passed away, I ended up getting online and talking to people about it. It was easier for me than dealing with all the raw emotions that you get from someone else in person when they try and comfort you. Sometimes the distance of text, made it easier for me to bear and process and deal with while still providing some connection from others, in ways that didn't overwhelm me. I think you made a good choice posting here, since you lack the right kind of people in your real life to really help you with this.

Now, my advice...sleep. Sleep is the best thing you can get right now. It will help you process all this and wrap your head around it. It will help you continue to function in your day job. Sleep will help you get perspective. Then grieve and move on and celebrate his life through the good memories you have of him, forgiving those foibles that makes us imperfect.

Blessed be.

a reply to: Thanatos0042

Funerals for are for the living. ...

This is a very true statement...in more ways than one as well.

There are a number of different perspectives on a funeral, but as you correctly state; they are for the living. Depending on your spiritual perspective, they really don't do much for the deceased.

However, that said, a person does not have to be in the presence of the deceased to pay their final respects. The deceased is not there (at the funeral), any more than they are anywhere else. Depending on your belief system, they may be everywhere or nowhere at all, and this is subject to debate which goes well beyond the scope of this thread. But back to the theme of 'funerals being for the living'; one must consider who those living are, and what personal healing can come from attending such an event. Remember, funerals are gatherings of people, usually loved ones, who are looking to each other for support. This point is key. Personal healing is the goal. The deceased are, well, deceased.

If the environment (the funeral event itself) is not one of emotional support for an attendee then they should strongly consider paying their respects, if they feel the need to do so, in some other manner. It's not like there won't be another opportunity, because again, the deceased isn't there either.

Bottom line...she should attend if it will help "her", not to help others. She owes them nothing, and frankly there's the very real possibility attendance runs the risk of confrontation and destructive (not helpful) behavior.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

You makes some excellent points in your post and overall, I do agree with you.

However there is a psychological and emotional aspect of attending a funeral that is usually ingrained in a person as a part of our current normal societal values. At least for most people and it sounds to me like the OP probably falls into this group. So being there can allow for a healing and emotional closure that will be much harder to achieve by not attending.

Also, it's worth noting, sometimes people have a very difficult time accepting it all as "real" until they are there, at the funeral service.

Finally, while she owes no one anything, it is worth keeping in mind that the parents of her ex has made a point to mention that the service is their's and that they want her there and that her attendance is important to them at lest and that is also worthy of consideration.

I went to a funeral once where an ex-wife attended. The current wife didn't want her there but the father and mother of the deceased did want her there, because she made a bigger impact in their lives and their son's life than the current wife ever did and it was important for them that she attend. She didn't say the whole service, but she did attend and said goodbye and hugged each of the parents and left.


All I can speak from is my personal experience, but I stayed away from one funeral I really should have attended, but I did the PC thing and nearly 25 years later, I still regret that decision. Grief often makes people selfish, short-sighted and befuddles thinking, but it's still a poor excuse for not letting someone come and say goodbye.

I've been to a lot of funerals and many where someone was in attendance someone else didn't want there and never seen any confrontation that was violent or dangerous. I know it does happen, the world is crazy sometimes, but I would believe it is in the grand minority of cases, plus you would have to think the son's parents have told the current fiance that she may be there and to be nice.

sorry for your loss
heres hoping you get over it

a reply to: ReyaPhemhurth

I am deeply sorry for your loss.

He made choices in a poor state of mind. It had nothing to do you with you and was not in your control.

Funerals are ritual for mutual support amongst the grieving. If your attendance would potentially provoke drama from his fiancée, skip the ritual. Attending would risk the fiancée asking you questions that have no answers while she is emotionally raw and unpredictable. You can send flowers and visit his grave on your own terms and have a personal moment of saying goodbye.

Victims of suicide are like victims of natural disasters. Emotional storms come to all of us with low points, but sometimes all the conditions just align when we are at our weakest and the tornado touches down. There is no single "why" to explain it...and it had nothing to do with you.

On a side note..Was his fiancée pregnant? He could have felt trapped and on course for a life he did not want...not that that would answer the question of "why", but he might have mistakenly felt he had no options and his future was not something he wanted.