Unanswered Questions. The shooting of Matt Mika at the Republican Congressional baseball practice.

a reply to: texasgirl

Just a warning? Don't forget: we can kill you and get away with it.
?

a reply to: texasgirl

I just wouldn't say someone was "shot in the chest" if they were actually shot in the back...even if there was an exit wound on the chest.

To me, the story sounds like it was modified. And for the precise reason that you asked that question when I posted Harder's statement that Mika was shot on the field...you asked, "Wouldn't he have to be shot in the back, not the chest for that to make sense?"

And "shot in the chest" had, indeed, become "shot in the back."

Voila!

Look how Barry Loudermilk does all he can to make it sound totally normal to describe someone who was 'shot in the back' as having been 'shot in the chest' (this was from a June 20th interview):

I decided to try to get to Matt and I start moving toward him. I get close enough to see that he’s been shot in the chest, bleeding very badly, but he is still conscious, he is still alive.

Brain sees the shooters position and tells me to get back. So I come back toward the shed and rounds starts hitting the ground around us. Apparently, the shooters then moves himself to reposition himself. Brian saw that there was a break and so he hollard for everyone else that was there was there to retreat further back about another 30 yards, there’s a concrete restroom building and they were able to get out of the way. There were fewer targets now. And brain and I decided that we were going to stay there and keep eyes on the shooter.

I was going to keep talking to Matt, he was very badly wounded. Imagine an SKS round hitting your back and exiting the center of your chest. And he is laying on his back, and every now and then he would twitch, and I knew he was alive. But every time we tried to help him sights would ring out.

He sure wants people to know Matt Mika was actually shot in the back, without ever saying the words "he was shot in the back."

Link

This was discussed (and explained) in the original thread on the shooting. It all comes down to lack of understanding of how shootings happen in the real world versus what they look like in the movies. The fact this got 54 flags is just weird.

Discussion starts here:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: face23785

I think it's weird that just because you decided the topic was ridiculous and said so, in that thread, you think no one else should ever be able to talk about it at ATS, again.

a reply to: MotherMayEye
The third (Cabrera) was firing at the shooter andi've seen conflicting reports that he was the one who took him down? But i've also read that there were around 150 shots fired which seems like a LOT from an SKS which holds 10rds and isnt known for fast reloading, unless he had aftermarket external mags installed, which is possible

I would like to know if Mika was hit with a rifle or a pistol. Allegedly the gunman had both but didn't switch to the pistol until the very end of the shooting.

And I also don't see how he was hit so many times in the chest and arm where he was situated. It really makes no sense.

From the range it would HAVE to be the rifle, unless of course he was shot by the handguns... of the officers...

I do think it's odd the first gunshot sounded louder and different than subsequent shots. I didn't know what to make of it.I don't know how buckshot works...I'll have to look it up.

Buckshot is basically a number of small pellets inside of a sabot that travel through the barrel randomly and spread out when they leave the muzzle of a shotgun. It is short ranged and inaccurate because of this, but the spread will pretty much guarantee something hits. Shotguns are extremely loud and distinct.
But there's no way no one would have seen that.

There is no way in hell Mika got shot through the centre chest with 7,62x39 and survived, multiple times.

a reply to: texasgirl

From what I'm reading it was Congressman Jeff Flake who yelled out "are you friendly?!!" to Cabrera. Why would he ask that? Aren't Capital Hill Police wearing uniforms?

Cabrera was an Army vet. One article states that the other two officers, the injured ones, knew they couldn't take down the shooter and thus provided cover for the Republicans to find safety. Cabrera ultimately brought the shooter down.

Oh, boy....I really hate to say this but is it possible Cabrera was a second shooter? (Just speculating)

You're completely right, either I read it wrong or the article I saw got it wrong. I thought it was Cabrera yelling to the other officers.
That's even more bizarre. Yes how would he have thought the third officer was not an officer?





a reply to: spiritualzombie
How dare we talk about conspiracies on this political site, Above Trump Secret ;D

originally posted by: Ridhya

Buckshot is basically a number of small pellets inside of a sabot that travel through the barrel randomly and spread out when they leave the muzzle of a shotgun. It is short ranged and inaccurate because of this, but the spread will pretty much guarantee something hits. Shotguns are extremely loud and distinct.
But there's no way no one would have seen that.

There is no way in hell Mika got shot through the centre chest with 7,62x39 and survived, multiple times.

Again, this is why I think he must have been hit with a shotgun firing buckshot. That way you can be "shot" twice but end up with 4 or 5 entry wounds. One way to hide it would be to fire it from inside a vehicle - this would limit the sound somewhat. Also if it was discharged during a barrage of gunfire it would not be as noticeable. One more variation would be that Mika was shot by a Taurus Judge .410 or similar model making it easy to conceal and not as loud as a 12 or 20 ga gun. That would have to be at extremely close range as those .410 shells only hold a couple pieces of buckshot and their pattern spreads very wide at any distance.

a reply to: Asktheanimals
Thing is if he were shot by a shotgun at long range the odds are he wouldn't be hit 5 times if at all, and if at close range there is no way a soft target wouldn't be swiss cheese. Shotguns in general are louder and can't be suppressed properly. Firing from inside a car would have deafened the shooter and broken the glass, and if the weapon was out the window, the sound wouldn't have been dampened.

Taurus judge would be one of the loudest handguns imaginable and if you've seen them, there's extremely inaccurate and short range, like unreliably so. It would make so much more sense all around to assassinate the guy with the same rounds the shooter was using.






HOLY S#IT the shooter may have used the same handgun as the Capitol Police..
FBI Statement - Smith and Wesson 9mm
Capitol Police at least used to use 9mm Smith and Wesson Handguns

This might explain why we haven't heard the ballistics report of what hit Mika. It's possible he wasn't shot by the rifle like they claimed, but by police handguns...

Eta: I had read the shooter's weapon was an SKS rifle - a piss-poor choice due to their lack of accuracy, especially if the rifle was not scoped. Considering where everyone else was hit compared to Mika I think they were shot by different shooters. If the FBI is handling this (while NOT calling it terrorism) then I am extremely suspicious of the whole thing.

a reply to: Asktheanimals

i own a russian SKS and with iron sights i am very accurate at 100 yards.
this would be an ideal firearm for shooting at a target less than 200 feet away.
30 round clip
little recoil
easy to remove and replace the clip.

AH.....

So, I realized this morning that a large portion of the witness cell phone footage actually takes place looking directly down the 'alley' behind the first base. This is the area where Mika was seen down.

The view captured is looking down the alley towards the back end of the SUV parked parallel to the dugout. This SUV:


This is also the SUV that Dan Harder (who is the only witness to claim that Matt Mika was shot while on the field), claims he hid in the back seat of.

In the video, it's evident that at least two people exit that SUV at one point during the shooting. One runs through the gate and appears to go to the first base dugout. And that is odd since I have heard no one mention they were in the vehicle and then got out of it during the shooting.

Here is a snapshot of them exiting the vehicle:


It is not evident that Dan Harder got into the back of it at the time the gunman came around home base to travel towards that area -- like he claimed -- although the camera is not continuously pointed at the vehicle.

Also visible is Mike Conaway, hiding behind the SUV and going back and forth through the gate to the first base dugout and behind that SUV. At one point, he raises his arm as if to give a signal to someone. Here is a snapshot of that:


Not visible is the other SUV, this one parked behind the dugout:


You can see the lampost it's parked near in this still from the video:


I am not sure, from the phone camera's perspective whether you should be able to see it or not. But that's the area it was parked.

Also not visible is Matt Mika lying anywhere. And he was allegedly lying somewhere between the two SUVs.

Joe Barton's son, Jack, also isn't apparent while trying to get into the visible SUV, in the video, or while he was allegedly under it, or when he got out from under it and ran into the dugout.

What is apparent is that the doors to that SUV were unlocked, at least two people got out of it, at one point, and I don't understand how Jack Barton was not able to get into it and had to resort to getting under it as his father stated.

It's a very interesting video to watch now that I have read so many accounts from people who said they were in that area.

There is really only one portion where I think I see Capitol Police Officers responding and it was not until the end. I never saw them go on to the field in the video (which was claimed in some accounts), or exit the field to go back to the area where the gunman was brought down. In fact, I think I see them coming into view from the opposite direction.

I can also only spot two people with yellow jerseys in the video (could be the same person both times). Here (sitting on the ground to the left):


And here:


Barry Loudermilk -- who insinuated that Matt Mika was shot in the back -- says he was wearing a bright yellow jersey. But the people/person wearing these/this one is not where Barry says he was. Barry was allegedly on the other side of the tan shed, and talking to Matt Mika lying on the other side of it near the SUV that is not visible in the video.

I noticed a few other things, but I'll leave it at this, for now, hoping others are still interested and will watch it closely, too, and chime in:

Also, I am waiting to see if Matt Mika says he was actually shot in the back, not the chest. Not that I would feel confident about it if he did say that. But thus far, he hasn't and the two references to him being shot in the back are shady SHADY! And they are not sourced.

All the other accounts, including his family's statement, say he was shot in the chest.

I have also read he was shot twice in the chest and once in the wrist, although those accounts are not confirmed.

a reply to: Ridhya

You are correct, buckshot is worthless at that distance and all shotguns are loud.
However, that still does not preclude the possibility of one being used as it does explain the difference in "shots" versus "wounds". Saying he was shot twice yet sustained 4 or 5 wounds. Buckshot could not explain a penetrating wound going through the chest. I've shot many a deer with buck and it never penetrated beyond the vital organs.

a reply to: Asktheanimals

There is that first shot that more than one witness says was different...louder...more explosive.

That, plus Matt Mika's "multiple wounds" AND the fact that he seemed to be already down behind the dugout before any witness said they got there keeps me hanging on to the buckshot theory.

Mike Conaway says he was at first base and ran off the field at the second shot, he said Matt Mika was already out there. Mike Conaway was merely steps from that exit gate and the area behind it.

How did Matt Mika get shot and get out that exit after having been shot, so fast, that he beat Mike Conaway there? Especially considering Dan Harder came out 'late' in the news to say Matt Mika was shot on the field and fell twice, got up twice, and was limping out of the field???

I like the buckshot theory.

a reply to: MotherMayEye

I want to clarify about the two 'accounts' that insinuate Matt Mika was shot in the back, not the chest...

Neither are sourced by the family or hospital...they are both entirely without explanation....

...Even though they come from two Congressmen: Barry Loudermilk and Jack Bergman.

Loudermilk says -- DAYS LATER -- "Imagine being shot in the back by an SKS and it exiting the center of your chest," as if to say that's what happened to Matt Mika...but he doesn't directly say it or explain why he's describing such a thing.

Jack Bergman refers to Mika's chest wound as an "exit wound" three days after the shooting. Again, no explanation as to why he calls it an "exit wound."

Nothing about Matt Mika being shot in the back has been reported by Mika's family or him. The family said he was "shot multiple times in the chest and arm." This is after he was communicating by notes, and after he had been in the hospital for treatment for many hours.

I am not buying what Loudermilk and Bergman are saying without a whole lot more context and explanation from them and Matt Mika...there's a threshold they need to meet to convincingly change this from "Matt Mika was shot in the chest" to "Matt Mika was shot in the back, not the chest."

I don't think they can overcome that threshold, at this point.

a reply to: MotherMayEye

That "louder" shot - we don't know if it's even on the video or not.
We can safely assume the person taking the video sought safety after hearing shots and then turned on their camera.
That's plenty of time for that louder shot to have occurred.

originally posted by: MotherMayEye

Towards the end of the video, by the time the gunman is allegedly rounding home base and coming down towards the area on the video, Conaway walks out from behind the SUV shortly after someone else just kind of casually walks out from behind the shed...the area where the hidden Capitol Police officer's SUV is parked.

It's that other guy that I am curious about.

Dark shirt, dark pants...but looks to be baggy sports clothing. A participant in practice, maybe, not a plain clothes Capitol Officer?

Conaway throws up a hand signal from behind the SUV, that other guy walks out very shortly after, further down by the light post. A small pause...then I hear several successive shots.

Was that guy dressed in dark clothing Matt Mika, maybe? I'd like to rule that out.

Those shots sound a bit different, too.

THAT guy is just about exactly where I would have expected Matt Mika to be laying. And I do not see him after that that point in the video...

What looks to be two officers (Capitol/Alexandria) come running out from the shed side...and one almost looks like he points his gun down on the ground where the guy in dark shorts was last visible...

...And Mike Conaway comes strolling out into the open from behind the SUV like 'it's all over.'

Even though gunfire is still going on and it's clear the gunman hasn't gone down yet (someone else yells, "Shoot him," after that point).

I wish I knew who the guy in the dark shirt and pants was.

Here is a snapshot from the video at 3:54:

a reply to: Asktheanimals

The louder shot was the very first one. Definitely not on the video for that reason.

I dunno...I think for someone to be bleeding to death like Mika (after being shot multiple times) there'd be blood on the ground by the SUVs. Those two pics posted don't show any blood, except for maybe a small thin line.

This Mika story smells.

a reply to: texasgirl

Agree! There's no visible blood in the pics.

Still wondering if that guy in dark pants was Matt Mika..and, if so...he was shot at the very end of the incident, and would appear to have possibly been signaled to come out by Conaway and then shot in the area where people said Mika was, but behind the lampost. AND he was shot while the camera was panned away towards the field.

And so that could explain the lack of visible blood...he wasn't there all that long bleeding. He would also be on the other side of the lamp post...and no one took pics from that side of the lamp post.

Just speculating....not married to that scenario.