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Is the threat of eternal damnation necessary

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posted on Jun, 2 2017 @ 07:06 AM
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You would think the divinely inspired word of God would be more advanced with human psychology. Many times I wonder if the Bible was written by men pretending to speak for God. The Bible got slavery wrong. The Bible never mentions abortion. Those are two major mistakes.

However, even with its major flaws, the essential message of the Bible is still intact. And that message is morality in the present is important.

If you study morality and why people act morally I do not think it is because of the threat of eternal damnation. I think people have morals or behave morally for other reasons. I think people who are moral have a deep connection with the golden rule. The golden rule is mankind's best compass for how to behave. As a compass, the golden rule guides us in decisions that may cause or alleviate human suffering.

When it comes to morality, people who commit sins or outrageous immoral acts are not thinking about eternal damnation. People who commit sins are wrapped up in other considerations. People who are really evil don't think about the implications of their immorality. Just like outlawing guns doesn't stop criminals, having the threat of eternal damnation does not prevent sin.

I think the threat of eternal damnation may have the opposite affect with some people. I think some people who are rebellious against authority will commit even more sins in defiance to the threat of eternal damnation.

The problem with the Bible is the words are carved in stone. In the modern world with all its complexities you need to apply moral decisions to all kinds of situations not even considered or mentioned in the Bible. Only by having a moral compass firmly rooted in the golden rule can someone of good moral character be able to navigate these modern day complexities.

If having a world where people behave morality is important then I think concentrating on being rooted in the golden rule is the most effective answer.

Time to put on your thinking cap and have some spiritual backbone. Why do people behave morally? Or even more fun to think about, why do people behave immorally? And what is the best strategy for having a moral society or a society where behaving morally is important?


edit on 2-6-2017 by dfnj2015 because: (no reason given)




posted on Jun, 2 2017 @ 07:09 AM
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*yawn*

Like everything in life, choice carries consequences. You can leave the pot of boiling water alone on the stove or you can stick your hands in it. No one is stopping you. Why don't you stick your hands in that nice boiling water?

I'd wager it's because you know the consequences of that course of action would be unpleasant. Is the threat of burning necessary to keep you from scalding all the skin off your hands? Do you feel that threat every time you boil water on the stove?

Do you resent that knowledge that if you stick your hands in the boiling water it will scald the skin off your hands?

I am guessing not.



posted on Jun, 2 2017 @ 07:13 AM
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a reply to: dfnj2015

Slavation through fear is a powerful motivator.



posted on Jun, 2 2017 @ 07:22 AM
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I think the parts about abortion was left out in the King James version.



posted on Jun, 2 2017 @ 07:28 AM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
*yawn*

Like everything in life, choice carries consequences. You can leave the pot of boiling water alone on the stove or you can stick your hands in it. No one is stopping you. Why don't you stick your hands in that nice boiling water?


You make a weak argument. Not every choice carries consequences that burn you like boiling water. People who don't get burned committing acts of evil will continue to do those acts. Banking CEOs in 2008 are very happy with their decisions despite the moral consequences of their actions.


originally posted by: ketsuko
I'd wager it's because you know the consequences of that course of action would be unpleasant. Is the threat of burning necessary to keep you from scalding all the skin off your hands? Do you feel that threat every time you boil water on the stove?

Do you resent that knowledge that if you stick your hands in the boiling water it will scald the skin off your hands?



If you are implying know the consequences of being burned by water is somehow equivalent to the perceived threat of eternal damnation then I think it is a false equivalency. Since no one has ever experienced the sting of eternal damnation why would anyone perceive it as a threat. Sometimes boiling water is just boiling water.


originally posted by: ketsuko
I am guessing not.


I'm guessing by your weak response you did not read my post or spend anytime thinking about the questions I posed.



posted on Jun, 2 2017 @ 07:30 AM
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originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: dfnj2015

Slavation through fear is a powerful motivator.



"Slavation", I think you meant "slave nation"

Fear as a motivator is only as powerful as someone's imagination. For people with no imagination fear doesn't seem to be very motivating.



posted on Jun, 2 2017 @ 07:33 AM
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originally posted by: dfnj2015
"Slavation", I think you meant "slave nation"


That's the thing about soteriology, there aren't even settled views on what will require you to pack the SPF 1,000,000.



posted on Jun, 2 2017 @ 07:45 AM
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a reply to: dfnj2015


Is the threat of eternal damnation necessary

Yes, for purposes of control.



posted on Jun, 2 2017 @ 07:53 AM
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a reply to: dfnj2015

The Bible, as about any religious tract is nothing but a tool fashioned in the mind and by the hands of men. Call it the "Gospel," "the Word of God," all that you want, but that does not change the fact of its actual origin. A genuine, all-powerful God would not tease us with hiding itself from view. Heaven and Hell are visual constructs for the weak to visualize a type of continuation of the spirit that is virtually impossible to explain otherwise and, paradoxically, even more impossible to visualize as usually preached.

As for morality, life in the universe could not exist if that condition was not for the basic thought that life, all life, is sacred and should always be treated as such. That single law of the Ten Commandments is the heart of that list and everything else is window dressing to ease societies toward it.

Given the age of the Universe/alternate realities/dimensions, etc., that rule must be the automatic principle of existence for any intelligence otherwise there would only be one dominant intelligence in the universe and it would not be us. We personalize morality, but it is not from our high thinking of ourselves but merely an aspect of a living consciousness that permeates all matter.



posted on Jun, 2 2017 @ 08:09 AM
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originally posted by: musicismagic
I think the parts about abortion was left out in the King James version.


Yes, the Bible never mentions abortion. That's why I said only by having a moral compass firmly rooted in the golden rule can someone of good moral character be able to navigate morality decisions with modern day complexities.



posted on Jun, 2 2017 @ 08:11 AM
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a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

We should wait for the authorities to tells us. Got it.



posted on Jun, 2 2017 @ 08:16 AM
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a reply to: dfnj2015

i think it is safe to say that the bible fails to deliver a cohesive moral code that stands up to modern scrutiny. The books were obviously developed over a long period of time, and then used by an outside culture (Rome) who was desperately trying to unify a lot of different ideas to gain control over as many people as it could. It was not a worthy specimen then and it is not a worthy example now. It has propagated a lot of confusion because there is no basis in reality. There is no eye in the sky watching your every move and tallying your decisions. Humans take no responsibility for themselves and others because they believe in some cosmic forgiveness. The majority of all humans live as though a better life happens after you die and this life is meaningless. This might be the most disastrous concept man has even taken on. All thanks to a few books written millenia ago, in a time when the people could make no sense of the world. Most people who see through the BS that religious books spew, still have trouble letting go of a god concept. So now they invent their own god who agrees with only them.



posted on Jun, 2 2017 @ 08:17 AM
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Its pretty latent that all doctrine is written by man. The message May be not so much. But the threat of damnation is weak sauce. Or else it would be heaven on earth. Either people are not able to comprehend all theology. Or if we are all hijacked by baby specks of gnar who knows. I'm more so leaning towards the crutch of being decent as reward based being demented. Everyone just be cool. You follow Jesus or whomever they all straight up said, just be cool. Its the dependency of external compasses and the few who are just pure evil



posted on Jun, 2 2017 @ 08:18 AM
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It could be said that eternal life is a form of damnation.

If you live forever, at some point you will have done it all........then what? The expectation is that you will serve your God forever..... damned if you do, damned if you don't depending on how you look at it I suppose.

Sometimes I think (if you believe in creationism) our creation may have been a byproduct of a creator being bored. I'm humble enough to consider that and it is what it is if that were the case. Makes sense when so many haven't a clue as to truly why we're here and for what purpose...it seems experimental to me.
edit on E30America/ChicagoFri, 02 Jun 2017 08:30:29 -05006amFridaynd08am by EternalShadow because: add/correction



posted on Jun, 2 2017 @ 08:20 AM
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originally posted by: dfnj2015
We should wait for the authorities to tells us. Got it.


I just spoke to the authority, Cthulhu says you're screwed regardless.



posted on Jun, 2 2017 @ 08:20 AM
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originally posted by: dfnj2015

originally posted by: musicismagic
I think the parts about abortion was left out in the King James version.


Yes, the Bible never mentions abortion. That's why I said only by having a moral compass firmly rooted in the golden rule can someone of good moral character be able to navigate morality decisions with modern day complexities.
The bible does lay out terms for abortion. Im not sure where it is but i'll paraphrase

" if you think your wife is prego with another man's baby, take her to the priest, who will concoct a magic abortion elixer and force her to drink it".



posted on Jun, 2 2017 @ 08:22 AM
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originally posted by: Aliensun
a reply to: dfnj2015
As for morality, life in the universe could not exist if that condition was not for the basic thought that life, all life, is sacred and should always be treated as such.


With science most people think God is dead and nothing is sacred. It's very difficult to convince people the word "sacred" has any meaning.

I'm not sure "life in the universe could not exist if that condition" is true.



posted on Jun, 2 2017 @ 08:23 AM
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originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: dfnj2015

originally posted by: musicismagic
I think the parts about abortion was left out in the King James version.


Yes, the Bible never mentions abortion. That's why I said only by having a moral compass firmly rooted in the golden rule can someone of good moral character be able to navigate morality decisions with modern day complexities.
The bible does lay out terms for abortion. Im not sure where it is but i'll paraphrase

" if you think your wife is prego with another man's baby, take her to the priest, who will concoct a magic abortion elixer and force her to drink it".


I'd love to read that passage. Please try to give me passage number.



posted on Jun, 2 2017 @ 08:23 AM
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a reply to: dfnj2015

On the other hand, most christians claim that the only reason they are not murdering everyone is because god says it's bad. So....



posted on Jun, 2 2017 @ 08:26 AM
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a reply to: Woodcarver

Nice post. Nice to see someone who is actually thinking about the questions I posed! Thank you.




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