Trump “revealed more information to Russian ambassador than we have shared with our own allies”

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: bknapple32

"Nobody listening" wasn't intended to mean nobody is listening, just that the majority doesn't care, which I think is an argument which can be made despite MSNBC's echo chamber ratings. Also of note, since Maddow's Al Capone Vault-esque "reveal" of Trump's tax returns, a huge number of viewers have been tuning in to watch the slow rolling car wreck which is MSNBC. Americans love a spectacle, which is why the Jackass movies sold so well.

What you, as a person who dislikes Trump, considers him "shooting himself in the foot" strikes me, a Trump voter, as being Trump trolling his detractors. As a self admitted asshole, I can appreciate him doing that, Your mileage may (and almost certainly does) vary from my own.

Honest question- IF MSNBC is an echo chamber, was Fox circa 2000-2017?

a reply to: dawnstar

No. Watters is talking about honoring the police at the moment.

originally posted by: bknapple32

originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: bknapple32

For all I know trump did do As the article says, and that is bad.

However, until I see proof one way or another, I will not rush to judgement.

I do know that at this point both political sides hate each other so much that they are not above lying or leaking info to make the other look bad, so I want to see proof before I make any judgements.

I think you just opened up a rabbit hole by hitting it on the head here....


Both political sides hate eachother. At levels unprecedented. Cant we, the populace, see that we are being engineered to hate someone from the opposite side of the political spectrum?

I was raised to think every right winger is a racist homophobe hell bent on bringing us back to 1953.As Im sure people have been raised to believe the left is literally mentally ill. When do we break free of this social dichotomy?

There could be an entire topic area on this.

For me, I have learned to respect many of the people on here that have vastly different ideas than me.

When I disagree with tjem, I think they are merely wrong, not bad people.

originally posted by: Majic
a reply to: bknapple32

The problem with these stories is if they are true, then the sources are criminals disclosing classified information for public dissemination instead of notifying the proper authorities, such as inspectors general for the agencies involved. If they are false, then the sources are liars.

True or false, there is no case in which the motives behind these stories aren't sinister.

That's a very big problem, and sooner or later, the law is going to catch up with these people.

Unfortunately there's a thing in the US constitution that says something about freedom of the press. I am inclined to agree with you, that the info should have been passed on to the relevant authorities, unless it had been or those authorities have been fishy.

Just my 2c.

a reply to: ThingsThatDontMakeSense

The garbage these headlines spew gets worse everyday. Just by reading the article it reeks of bs.

a reply to: Grambler

Rare. I must read about the mentally ill left on an hourly basis these days.

Gee I must be really ill for wanting the following:
Healthcare for everyone
Schools for everyone
Jobs program for everyone
Flat tax ( I understand thats not a left thought- surprise, people can be both left and right)
Strong DEFENSE( that means defense not offense)
And for local and fed gov to stay the hell out of my house and electronics so I can smoke and watch porn in peace.


Is that so much to ask???????


ETA: Cheers for a civil discussion as usual with you

originally posted by: bknapple32
Honest question- IF MSNBC is an echo chamber, was Fox circa 2000-2017?

Honest answer: I don't watch Fox, nor do I consider Fox as conservative. Fox panders to the establishment same as the other major networks do. They may put a GOP spin on things, but remember, they moaned and groaned on election night (I've seen the youtube videos) same as MSNBC, CNN, and the rest did. They are little more than establishment narrative puppets that present the narrative slightly slanted to draw in viewers who would otherwise reject said narrative.

In case you're unaware of this, I view a goodly share of the GOP as RINOs... so believe me, the network of RINOs, Fox, holds no special place in my heart.

originally posted by: bknapple32
a reply to: Vasa Croe

Ive been respectful. Yet you underhandedly call me delusional.


I'll say again. The man who was in the room DID NOT SAY THE FOLLOWING:

"Potus did not reveal any classified info"

Right...he didn't say the exact line that you want him to say based off an article that is fake news. I am of the opinion he shouldn't have even addressed it as that gives the "journalist" who made it up actual responses to something that was untrue to begin with.

McMaster specifically stated the story was false.

Even if I believed it and held that it was true, I'd still look like an idiot for screaming about it while watching Hillary ( who actually DID send classified info through non secure channels and had it proven by the FBI) patronize the entire voting public by actinv like she didnt know what wiping a server meant.

I mean these "journalists" and media sources really do play to the lowest common denominator. It's just like when Gruber said you have to count on the stupidity of the American voters to pass Obamacare....

a reply to: bknapple32

If there is wrongdoing, the right thing to do is notify the proper authorities so it can be investigated and, if warranted, prosecuted. Laws and regulations exist to address just that, and in the case of classified information, complying with them is the only way to resolve problems without committing crimes and compounding them.

Calling newspaper reporters is not the way to handle things.

There can be exceptions, such as (arguably) the domestic surveillance issues exposed by Edward Snowden, but in such cases, confidential consultation with attorneys prior to public disclosure would be a bare minimum, and competent attorneys would rightly advise against going straight to the press before exhasuting all reasonable alternatives, such as notifying the proper people in government (notably Congress).

Mr. Snowden remains a fugitive because he went way beyond domestic surveillance and betrayed the people of the United States in doing so. Had he been more circumspect in his disclosure, I would be on his side, but that's another story.

Snowden was motivated by ideology. The people behind these alleged leaks are motived by political ambition and a desire to manipulate public opinion for their own benefit.

If they didn't disclose classified information in pursuit of their agendas, it might not be illegal, but if they did, they're late for prison.

a reply to: Grambler

I'll again ask, if true, what is the problem with sharing classified info with an ally for a joint cause? It happens every single day between countries.

Is the assumption Trump shared info that would hurt America? Why? How?

a reply to: bknapple32

No. No one is mentally ill for wanting those things, most people (even us "evil" conservatives) want them, but we can see how impractical they are.

Not even Bernie could offer a platform where they could be implemented without adding $18trillion in new taxes (on top of what we already have) and that's almost certainly a very, very lowball estimate.

I have to know ... even *if* Bernie could have raised that much in new revenue in one year, why spend it on new spending when we already to fail to raise enough to cover what we are already spending on and therefore Bernie's magical, mystery number was equalivalent to our then national debt?

Why not pay that off before adding that much in additional spending to a budget that already had a built-in shortfall?

a reply to: Vasa Croe

I think Ive isolated the problem.. Hear me out



Im not doubting McMasters veracity..... What I do believe is... he walked out there with words, written and approved by Trump himself. And lets not make any bones about it, I think its fair to say Trump has a gift of gab and knows whats being said and whats NOT being said.


McMaster went out with trump talking points. And the largest point of them all was never uttered. Just say he did not disclose classified material. I have to assume the right would demand the same question be answered.

a reply to: Majic
Associate FBI Director Mark Felt was Deep Throat.

He leaked to Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein of The Washington Post, in 1972, about the involvement of U.S. President Richard Nixon's administration in Watergate.

We know how that turned out.

originally posted by: bknapple32
a reply to: ketsuko

Honestly, NO ONE. That means left right and center.... Can say anything for a fact until the investigations are done. I think theres too much assuming from both political sides.

Actually, the guy in the room that said it didn't happen, he can pretty much state that as fact....no assumption needed.

a reply to: D8Tee

As I mentioned, there can be exceptions, and I think that was a good example.

This isn't.

originally posted by: auroraaus

originally posted by: Majic
a reply to: bknapple32

The problem with these stories is if they are true, then the sources are criminals disclosing classified information for public dissemination instead of notifying the proper authorities, such as inspectors general for the agencies involved. If they are false, then the sources are liars.

True or false, there is no case in which the motives behind these stories aren't sinister.

That's a very big problem, and sooner or later, the law is going to catch up with these people.

Unfortunately there's a thing in the US constitution that says something about freedom of the press. I am inclined to agree with you, that the info should have been passed on to the relevant authorities, unless it had been or those authorities have been fishy.

Just my 2c.

You are not "The Press" if you are making stuff up and and spreading political propaganda. Once you start that your deserve no protections as "The Press".

If Trump were to share classified info with Mexico about their cartels, media wouldn't bat an eye. If Trump shared classified info with France on terrorism, media wouldn't bat an eye.

This whole thing is based off the childish claim of "USA good Russia bad". It's the presumption Russia is so evil that we shouldn't even partner with them to fight ISIS.

Ludicrous.

a reply to: Xeven

I'm not debating that at all...

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: thesaneone

you are using the far right media that steve banning was a founder or as a source while accusing washington post as being "fake news"?

let me guess, fox news is saying the same thing and the little russian bots have already posted the story all across facebook?

It's still a quote from McMaster, or are you saying McMaster didn't say that??

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: bknapple32
a reply to: ketsuko

Honestly, NO ONE. That means left right and center.... Can say anything for a fact until the investigations are done. I think theres too much assuming from both political sides.

Actually, the guy in the room that said it didn't happen, he can pretty much state that as fact....no assumption needed.

This is getting tough....Again.............

The accusation is revealing classified material.

Thus the ONLY question I have interest in being answered is : "Did POTUS reveal classified information"

McMaster answers that with No, and I have no choice but to take his word on it...With a grain of salt, but I do not believe mcmaster would die on the sword of lies to protect trump. Thus Id believe him