schools must allow for minority students to speak in ebonics

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: SlapMonkey

Speaking from a purely philosophical point of view, would forcing someone to speak a specific language not be a violation of their civil rights? What about cultures where religion and language are enmeshed?

There is a reason we don't have an official national language. I'd suspect any argument in favor of removing "ebonics" as a language allowance would need to overcome the legal argument first.

Under our Constitution, though it might be implied by the fact that the document itself was written in English, there is no authority granted the Federal government to make any language "official" under the law. Not so with the states per the 10th Amendment. If a state wanted to make Swahili the official language they would be perfectly within their rights to do so.

And yes, forcing an adult to speak a language they did not want to speak would definitely be a civil rights violation. I don't know how you would do that exactly, unless that person was a ventriloquist's dummy, but this is hypothetical discussion.

If we're talking about parents forcing their children to speak a certain language, that's another matter. Unless that insistence and instruction crossed the line and became mental or physical abuse, I don't see any legal issue that would prevent it.

originally posted by: Spider879
a reply to: crazyewok

As such its a example of the black community choosing to isolate themselves which then shoots them in the foot. If they are going to isolate themselves culturally and linguistically there will be negative consequences, that is just the way of life.

I am thinking of giving you a pass because you are from England and may not know much about America's social history, segregated schools ,churches, neighborhoods, wasn't black folks choice, they were forced into it, steps taken to desegregate schools were met with massive resistance as many whites simply pulled their kids from schools and go elsewhere.

As far as hell freezing over?? look here, your ex Roman overlords would have laugh themselves silly if anyone had suggested that so-called Barbarian from the British Isles whose language and power would one day dominate the world, but here we are.

The black community wont get anywhere in fully ending segregation unless they stop self segregating.


The reason British and Romans took over the world was that we did not isolate ourselves. We assimilated over cultures into our own. Good or for bad that is another debate.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

whether its accepted or not is not going to change how someone talks. people talk how they talk and will until the end of time. the only thing wrong with ebonics is that it pisses off white people. so what.

a reply to: SBMcG

Cool story.
I have that 'switch' as well it takes me a few days being back in England from Wales before my mates stop saying 'Can tell you've been back home' or whatever.
The change is dramatic and flows naturally depending where I am lol

excuse me while i go listen to some "unintelligent sounding" ebonic laden rap music
peace out!

originally posted by: dreamlotus1111
excuse me while i go listen to some "unintelligent sounding" ebonic laden rap music
peace out!

Rap is unintelligent sounding. Its the lowest form of "music" and the gang culture it is attached to represents the lowest and most base forms of humanity.

originally posted by: dreamlotus1111
a reply to: SlapMonkey

whether its accepted or not is not going to change how someone talks. people talk how they talk and will until the end of time. the only thing wrong with ebonics is that it pisses off white people. so what.

So how am I as a teacher meant to communicate with students who refuse to speak ib correct English?

How are they meant to learn science when it is a field where scientific writing and speaking in english is a core skill?

How are they meant to get good jobs in English speaking countrys when communication in clear english is a core skill?

Are we meant to allow doctors to communicate on the job in ebonics?
Air trafic controllers?
Police officer's?

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: dreamlotus1111
excuse me while i go listen to some "unintelligent sounding" ebonic laden rap music
peace out!

Rap is unintelligent sounding. Its the lowest form of "music" and the gang culture it is attached to represents the lowest and most base forms of humanity.

i literally. dont. care.


www.youtube.com...

Correction it should be:

originally posted by: dreamlotus1111


I literally do not care.

a reply to: crazyewok

Meh, the member just sounds as bitter as the Scottish people I know in England who refuse to speak as the locals do.
If you are capable of understanding people speaking the common local language then you are capable of using it to communicate.

this teacher must be an idiot huh?
www.youtube.com...

and

www.youtube.com...

a reply to: SBMcG

Creating an official language is the club which people are beaten into submission.

I definitely understand the benefit to speaking the same language (although English is lacking in many ways). That said, i also believe language to not be fixed, and rather to be a living representation of daily vernacular among its users. There is not "official language" for any language.

I ran a bilingual call center with people who worked for me that spoke spanish primarily at home. Many could barely speak English, if at all. Put them on the phone with Puerto Ricans and Dominicans and our local spanish speakers were made fun of. Since not many folks come into the area, our spanish has become a dialect that is hard for "mainstream" spanish speakers to really understand. Its lost quite a bit of depth, with many words not being used at all locally (this was highlighted when several folks went through a translators course for the state hospital, and realized none of them knew the word for the bridge of the nose). If you ask a local for a "boligrafo" they won't know what you are talking about.

But it is absolutely spanish.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Yes, and if any of the ones you mentioned went to a university in Spain, they would be expected to use Spanish Spanish, not any of their local variations of the same.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Yes, and if any of the ones you mentioned went to a university in Spain, they would be expected to use Spanish Spanish, not any of their local variations of the same.

And when Americans come to the UK we expect colour to be spelt with a U

originally posted by: dreamlotus1111
this teacher must be an idiot huh?
www.youtube.com...

and

www.youtube.com...

Yes because he is setting those students up to fail.

They will be unattractive on the job market.

Doctors can not speak in slang, nor can police officers, nurses, paramedics or any other vital job in which CLEAR and PRECISE communication is vital.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: filthyphilanthropist

No matter what you call it, it has no place in a class room whose purpose is instruction in the workings of the English language.

As I said in my previous post, a separate class may have to be made room for on the curriculum, in order that the BEV you speak of can be studied with as much rigor, but BEV or Ebonics or whatever its called this month, should not be taught as part of the English language, nor work completed in those vernaculars be accepted in a strictly English language class.

As stated in MY previous post, that's fine. They shouldn't teach Spanish in English class, i.e., they shouldn't teach BEV in English class. If they can't speak BEV in other classes that are not some sort of language class, then niether should anyone speak Spanish. Get my point? I don't care. That's the school's authority.

However, it really grinds my gears when people call other people stupid for something when they really aren't. By the way, BEV and ebonics are not the same thing. It's not, "whatever it id being called this month." It's , "BEV is a language, and ebonics is a dialect of English." Every month BEV is BEV and ebonics is ebonics. Often they are confused with one another. Ebonics doesn't follow a strict set of rules for gramar and syntax. Ebonics, "let me ax you a querstion."

BEV, "He be working"

a reply to: crazyewok

Come come young Ewok, surely as a science teacher the biggest issue is that curious aluminum they speak of.
Sorcery I tell thee!

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: crazyewok

Come come young Ewok, surely as a science teacher the biggest issue is that curious aluminum they speak of.
Sorcery I tell thee!

I refuse to even recognise its existence

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Yes, and if any of the ones you mentioned went to a university in Spain, they would be expected to use Spanish Spanish, not any of their local variations of the same.

"Castillian" Spanish.

Were Americans in England the expectation would likely be similar. Since we are talking about a colony that adopted a European language, im not sure its really apples and apples.

a reply to: crazyewok

not really. those that can understand more types of people win in life. different accents, cultures, languages. thats the beauty of life.

i dont know about you but i can understand ebonics and standard english. so while you are sitting there scratching your head wondering what someone said in a rap song thinking it all sounds ignorant when there is a deeper meaning i know what is going on.

emts nurses have to learn to understand patients of all backgrounds
they dont know if the person they are picking up speaks "proper or not"

cops btw have to learn secret code words and slang to understand things suspects and witnesses are talking about.

a GOOD teacher can relate to his or her students and things that are relevant to them like music new slang etc

so try again