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schools must allow for minority students to speak in ebonics

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posted on Apr, 26 2017 @ 12:44 PM
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a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan
I'm from West Virginia. You don't think I can understand being treated differently for speaking different?

Yeah, I've been called a barefoot hillbilly too many times to count.

But I don't go to work speakin' Red Neck. I have enough sense in my head to speak proper, it just has a twang to it. But it is English.

Everyone has a accent. This is not about that. Nor is it about slang. This thread is about using Ebonics in an English class.

Still think you are giving these kids the best chance?

BFFT - This is about using Ebonics in an English class, right? Are you talking about something else?




posted on Apr, 26 2017 @ 12:54 PM
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originally posted by: liliththedestroyer
a reply to: crazyewok

Give me a #ing break!! Why should we cater to them again? I am so sick of this, we have given blacks, other minorities, and illegals,way too much #! Enough is enough! They are not oppressed, they are no longer slaves, you all need to get over this BS!! This is yet another con an scheme for them to get what they want and they are playing you bleeding heart liberals like a fiddle, ignore it!! Ugh!!


Wow hate much? Teaching someone in a language they are familiar wth is the way millions of refugees learn. As to the rest of your diatribe i will just leave the bigoted rant alone.



posted on Apr, 26 2017 @ 12:56 PM
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originally posted by: SlapMonkey
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan
You know the answer to that--it's the education sector of America.

That's not playing devil's advocate...your question sounds suspiciously like a passive aggressive way to find the uninformed on this thread


But after having eight years with a president who once was (and apparently is again) a community organizer, is it any surprise that there are some scholastic institutions willing to put localized societal norms above actual education?



What akes you think anything is being put abov something else? That wasnt in the article anywhere.



posted on Apr, 26 2017 @ 01:00 PM
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a reply to: Martin75

Im saying that before people scoff at the OP, think about it. What, exactly, are we talking about. And what is the best way forward?

I read the first page and a half, and it felt that the general gist was callous and more continuing with what has been failing for the last 30 years. Im asking questions hoping to make people think for a minute. Because im convinced that "oh hell no, screw them" isn't going to start working.



posted on Apr, 26 2017 @ 01:01 PM
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a reply to: crazyewok

That's stupid... There are thousands of "minorities" that are highly fluent in English, this is just an excuse for poor education.



posted on Apr, 26 2017 @ 01:05 PM
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a reply to: Mousygretchen

The broadest brush of the whole thread.

Black people living in social isolation is not the same as my grandfather not having a slavic accent. So lumping the 2 together under the term "minorities" isn't really appropriate.



posted on Apr, 26 2017 @ 01:08 PM
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a reply to: SlapMonkey

All languages evolve dependent on the area and the people that use it. I could put a new yorker and someone from the bayou together and they wouldnt understand each other. If possible someone needs to be taught in a language they can understand. I have had problems and face the exact same things. I speak 4 languages but German tends to dominate since i grew up using german. I can hear my accent with english and have been teased for it.
edit on 4/26/17 by dragonridr because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 26 2017 @ 01:11 PM
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originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: Martin75

Im saying that before people scoff at the OP, think about it. What, exactly, are we talking about. And what is the best way forward?

I read the first page and a half, and it felt that the general gist was callous and more continuing with what has been failing for the last 30 years. Im asking questions hoping to make people think for a minute. Because im convinced that "oh hell no, screw them" isn't going to start working.
Exactly anything that helps educate is a plus.



posted on Apr, 26 2017 @ 01:24 PM
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originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
I have a "side" im on here...but to play devils advocate....


....should the goal to be to teach students the most knowledge? Or to make them conform to societal norms?


I think one important thing is to teach them that there are such things as 'societal norms'.

I've been around enough eejits to recognise the differences between someone who is rebelling against those 'societal norms' and someone else who is simply unaware of them.

The difference is heartbreaking. The rebel is likely to outgrow the silliness and make a better life for themselves.

The ignorant one is far less likely to succeed.

This isn't confined to minorities. It appears that some parents either don't know the norms themselves or they just couldn't be bothered to raise their children correctly. Sadly, the teachers failed the kids as well.



posted on Apr, 26 2017 @ 01:30 PM
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a reply to: berenike

In the US you have people who rightly or wrongly believe that society has forsaken them. Southerners express this most publicly, although the former victims of slavery certainly have their own feelings on the matter.

I personally feel like if Lincoln would have just waited a few years, slavery would have fallen on its own. It didn't need the bloodletting, and the 150 years of simmering anger that has been subsequent, to resolve slavery. Which, as a side note, supports the assertion that the civil war was not about slavery, but was about federalism in an era of rowdy states.

But that aside, the result is segments of society that really don't like the greater society they live within. And aren't afraid to show it.



posted on Apr, 26 2017 @ 01:32 PM
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originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
I have a "side" im on here...but to play devils advocate....


....should the goal to be to teach students the most knowledge? Or to make them conform to societal norms?


In some ways its both.

I teach science and you cant write a scientific paper in ebonics.
Letting them is just setting them up to fail in life.



posted on Apr, 26 2017 @ 01:38 PM
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originally posted by: tigertatzen

originally posted by: crazyewok
a reply to: zosimov

Sorry no.


Speak whatever mumbo jumbo you want with friends and family I dont care.

But at school and in work you speak correct English.

I as a teacher am certainly not going to learn gibberjabber talk, I have neither the time, patience or cares, plus I am already learning the secound language of Spanish, a REAL language that civilised people speak.


Would you denounce a student with a speech impediment? Does that qualify as "jibber-jabber"? What about a thick accent from a kid whose first language is not English? Would you make them also bow to your lofty demands that you're students only speak perfect, clear English?

Ebonics, just like any other form of language, is learned from infancy. School kids speak the way they are spoken to at home. This is why different children have different accents and inflections and are not like programmed automatons who all sound exactly the same.

Language is a learned behavior, and the amount of time children spend at home with their families is far greater than the time they spend at school, with far more verbal interaction. It is ridiculous to demand that all children speak precisely the same, with perfect enunciation when out of a twenty-four hour period five days a week, they're only spending six hours of it within a classroom environment.

Your OP was written to invite mockery and ridicule of a very specific racial demographic, but the pompous bluster overshadows a very disturbing picture. I personally think you're just talking smack and wouldn't dare treat a student that way in real life, but it's unsettling to think that people who have such a judgmental, derisive attitude toward certain groups of children is in possession of a teaching license. That type of mentality is what monsters are made of.


A speach impediment you have no choice in is not the same as choosing to speak like a retard.

Anyway all I ask is my students do their best.



How can I justify teaching them in ebonics when:
1) I do not speak it or understand it. How can there be effective communication between teacher and student?
2) I am a science teacher and you cant write a science paper in ebonics.
3) communicating scientific principles through ebonics is not possible.
4) i am there to make sure they have the potential to get good jobs when they leave school and not become welfare leeches. Most employers will not except ebonics.



posted on Apr, 26 2017 @ 01:54 PM
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originally posted by: liliththedestroyer
a reply to: crazyewok

Give me a #ing break!! Why should we cater to them again? I am so sick of this, we have given blacks, other minorities, and illegals,way too much #! Enough is enough! They are not oppressed, they are no longer slaves, you all need to get over this BS!! This is yet another con an scheme for them to get what they want and they are playing you bleeding heart liberals like a fiddle, ignore it!! Ugh!!


No!!! ..you give me a fking break... WTF did you give..

edit on 26-4-2017 by Spider879 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 26 2017 @ 02:01 PM
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a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan
I grew up for the first 19 years of my life in Southern California, so I get the dual languages (and three, sometimes). But I guess my point would be that, in a school setting in the United States of America, proper English should be taught and expected.

At home and in the neighborhood, anything can go, but in a school? Nah, I'd rather tax dollars pay for a proper education on the (American) English language, and not be questioned just because proper English might hurt someone's feelings.



posted on Apr, 26 2017 @ 02:05 PM
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a reply to: dragonridr
When someone advocates the recognition of a 'slang language' (which basically is what ebonics equates to) and says that it should be an accepted and promoted form of communication in a scholastic setting because using proper English may make a few people feel bad, that is putting slang above proper English and basically admits that those advocating for this espouse the idea that some of these individuals are incapable of learning proper English.

The article doesn't have to specify such an idea when it is obviously written between the lines.



posted on Apr, 26 2017 @ 02:15 PM
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a reply to: dragonridr
This is not what the article is advocating at all.

And furthermore, if you are in the education system in the United States, where the use of English is in everything from the ingredients of your lunch to the textbooks and tests that you are expected to understand and pass, it would seem that the focus on teaching everyone proper English should be a priority, not questioned because some areas in America have their own slang and dialects.



posted on Apr, 26 2017 @ 02:22 PM
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Well, I have to agree 100% with the OP here.

That being said, I am a straight White man who pays a lot of taxes, so I’m already a default “racist” I suppose...

American children of all races and cultural backgrounds are best-served by learning the Queen’s English as best they can. It’s as simple as that.

Study after study shows a direct correlation between English language skills and success -- both academic and professional. The global language of science is English. In fact, English is as close to a global language as exists.

We can parse the vagaries of cultural and ethnic proprieties as an intellectual argument until Saint Swithin's Day, but that will not help these kids get jobs and be productive members of American society.

“Ebonics” is not a language – it is a mutilation of one. I challenge anyone to give me one good reason its use should be encouraged.



posted on Apr, 26 2017 @ 02:31 PM
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a reply to: SlapMonkey

Some one above pointed out , that it is not merely slang, in it's strongest form it's like Gullah.

At time 3:25 it give a very small example, now as Blacks migrated into the cities they would pick up new words and accents with in their new environment, and living in segregated communities would crystallized speech patterns, that said whether it's a dialect or a language , it's still should not be used as a language of instruction as a language of tradition I am ok with that , at-least until a time come, when speakers of that dialect become a top tier economic force, then the golden rule applies..he who have the gold makes the rules.
edit on 26-4-2017 by Spider879 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 26 2017 @ 02:39 PM
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The big question for me is how many people who speak slang/dialects of whichever flavour do not understand regular English when it is spoken to them.

I believe if you can understand perhaps a cop giving you instructions, or the person in a government office or business, then you are capable of expressing yourself using the same words you obviously understand.

No 'ebonics' in my 98+ percent white part of south west England, but I take issue with some Scots often, mainly those from Glasgow.

I've lost count of the number of times I've asked someone from Glasgow to repeat what they said because I didn't understand it.
They then repeat it in regular English then I always reply 'why didn't you say it in the formal way first time if you know how to because I'm obviously not from Glasgow and you are in England now?'

I've actually had two fist fights because of it over the years when the Scot got pissed off.
But both of the pricks had lived in my town as long as me just refuse to make conversation easier by choosing to speak as they do back home.

I'm from Wales originally, I speak Welsh and English back home, and my strong dialect comes back speaking English within a couple of pints with my family, they tease me I speak posh English.
But # me I tailor my linguistic presentation to my audience as appropriate. I speak differently when in Wales and England for the obvious need for mutual understanding.

If the folk in the US who speak 'ebonics' are capable of understanding formal English then they are choosing not to.
No more annoying or worthy of defence than the annoying Scottish bloke in my local pub who chooses to use slang/dialect from his home of Glasgow.

...The prick always uses formal English with me though, I called him and his choice of using unintelligible jibber-jabber out a few years ago.
edit on 26.4.2017 by grainofsand because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 26 2017 @ 02:42 PM
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originally posted by: Spider879
a reply to: SlapMonkey

Some one above pointed out , that it is not merely slang, in it's strongest form it's like Gullah.

At time 3:25 it give a very small example, now as Blacks migrated into the cities they would pick up new words and accents with in their new environment, and living in segregated communities would crystallized speech patterns, that said whether it's a dialect or a language , it's still should not be used as a language of instruction , at-least until a time come, when speakers of that dialect become a top tier economic force, then the golden rule applies..he who have the the gold makes the rules.


As such its a example of the black community choosing to isolate themselves which then shoots them in the foot.

If they are going to isolate themselves culturally and linguistically there will be negative consequences, that is just the way of life.

As such

originally posted by: Spider879-least until a time come, when speakers of that dialect become a top tier economic force, then the golden rule applies..he who have the the gold makes the rules.

That will happen when hell freezes over.



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