Jesus view on homosexuality and civil law

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Perfectenemy

Then go live your life.

This is a discussion started by one Christian to others. You jumped into this thread.

If you really didn't care and wanted to "evolve" as you put it, then you have a secular society to do it in. In case you haven't noticed, secular society has rewritten this definition we are arguing over, but also, our secular society was designed to give us the freedom to order ourselves as we choose.

If you want to get gay married, have at.

Yes and why was it rewritten if it is gods law isnt it blasphemous to change it and to make it appear more civil? That's what i don't get. You pretend to follow gods laws but if a passage is controversial you just change the whole meaning of it. Arent you supposed to follow gods law to the letter? If you agree with the written words or not is completely irrelevant in that case.

Thank heavens the term "Homosexual" was only coined in 1869, and it apparently didn't enter the Bible until 1946.

Academically I think the term is already somewhat dated, and Queer studies, or a bisexual sensibility has replaced strictly "gay" and "lesbian" (let alone "homosexual") studies.
While the Bible and other religions may condemn certain acts as sinful (but if we don't sin sometimes, Jesus died for nothing - or not?) to try and create a whole new class of pariahs by dodgy and circular interpretations is rather questionable.

Bisexuals are cool.
After all, God made the snails, and fish that change gender.

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: Logarock

The point is talking about divorce, marriage and homosexuality, is it not? As I have stated few times the Pharisees tried to trick Jesus, thinking that they were going to stump him and Jesus was being clever.

If Jesus wanted to talk about marriage and homosexuality, he would have done so already to his disciples.

A marriage, is a marriage, is a marriage.

Jesus gave the definition.

The marriage concept was different in that time and place. Back then, marriage was more a business proposition - arranged by two families with dowries and such. The reason men got married was to have legal heirs and the reason women got married was to have someone to support them (and they could relieve their parents of the burden). Love was incidental. It did happen that two people might fell in love, but that was usually after the marriage got started.

Now, you fall in love before you get married, and kids are totally optional. No one, and I mean NO ONE got married back then with no conscious intention of having kids. That's why it wouldn't make sense for two gay people to get married back then. It wouldn't even come up on Jesus' radar. I don't know why Jesus would have a problem with two gay people getting married, unless you think he would have a problem with two heterosexual people getting married and deciding not to have kids. Otherwise, what difference would it make to Jesus whether two human beings who loved each other wanted to commit to each other in a legal fashion?

a reply to: Raggedyman

Jesus only taught Christians one message
Love
Not judgement
Not civil unrest, not anti homosexuality

Jesus was not a hippie. In fact Jesus gave two commandments.

“‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’

Having said the above, the whole judgement thing in Matthew 7:1-5 has the meaning of criticizing the sinful behavior, but under no circumstances we are allowed to pass a final judgment like "You are going to Hell or to Paradise". That is for God to decide because we are sinners our selves.(i.e 3 And why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? .

What we are obliged to do is as mentioned in John 7:24 :

Do not judge according to appearance, but judge the righteous judgment."

I think Zechariah 7:9-10 can be applied here where it states :

9“Thus has the LORD of hosts said, ‘Dispense true justice and practice kindness and compassion each to his brother; 10and do not oppress the widow or the orphan, the stranger or the poor; and do not devise evil in your hearts against one another.’

As you can see, we are allowed to criticize the sinful behavior of a person, and it is not hateful, to tell a person he or she is in sin. The reason for that is that sin leads to death (James 1:15), and we love the sinner by speaking the truth in love (Ephesians 4:15). We hate the sin by refusing to condone, ignore, or excuse it.

If someone chooses to live a life contrary to christianity then that's their choice, free will, a gift from God

Indeed,and that is what should do as mentioned in Matthew 10:14

If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, leave that home or town and shake the dust off your feet.

Peace

originally posted by: Logarock

originally posted by: DeathSlayer

originally posted by: Logarock
a reply to: Raggedyman


This isnt true. I cant understand where these ideas come from. Even an objective neutral observer can see that Jesus taught a lot of judgment and made comments that did not support a moral relativism.

Correct for he also said I did not come to abolish the law but to fulfill it.

When Mary Magdelene was about to be stoned for adultrey Jesus did not stop them but simply said he who is without sin cast the first stone.....

Watch the love our King does when he returns....to his Father's enemies.

Yes but then told her "go and SIN no more". Don't understand why folks always leave this out. He also reproved the woman at the well that had 5 husbands but he didn't separate Himself from her.

He fulfilled the law when He played the scape goat and sin offering blood of lamb.

AND if you think when Jesus returns he will be the same man as before......well you drank too much koolaid. He is coming back to rule this time..... to put his Father's enemies at his feet. To Judge.....NOT to preach....teaching time is over.

You will bow to your King as everyone else will for does it not say that ALL will bend a knee.

Its not hard to understand.... when you stand before him you will be alone and your family and friends will not be there with you.... you will be judged.

a reply to: DeathSlayer

Yeah nothing's wrong with forcing people to bow and worship. That's true love.

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Raggedyman

If someone is living in sin, is it not love that commands you to tell them as much?

Did Jesus ever condemn anyone?
But you do?

Off the top of my mind....lets see he condemned:

The entire religious leaders, money changers, wait a minute .... he even BEAT them..... lets see..... he also condemned Judas......

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: DeathSlayer

Yeah nothing's wrong with forcing people to bow and worship. That's true love.

Sounds a little "ISIS-ish", doesn't it?

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

If you name a specific "sin" and telling them they're wrong for it, that's judging.

That is ridiculous........who told you this?

a reply to: DeathSlayer

That is ridiculous........who told you this?

Jesus

a reply to: Perfectenemy

Render unto Caesar ...

Even back in Christ's day, the Jews were living under their laws and Rome's. Even today, many Jews live under their laws and the laws of the countries they call home. Christians do the same. To have a religion is to live with your beliefs and the laws of the secular (sometimes) government of your homeland.

as for changing things to suit ourselves ... I'll bet you aren't so blameless of it as you think. Did you never drink before you were 21? Did you never indulge in some weed? Do you always perfectly drive the speed limit? If not, then you also change the laws to suit yourself.

a reply to: UnBreakable

THOUGH SHALL NOT KILL.

Is that good enough for why NOT to have an abortion or does it need to be spelled out for you?

www.youtube.com...

ok. I admit, i guess i posted this just because i liked it.

a reply to: kaylaluv

Because marriage is still about creating whole families: father, mother, children. That is why God designed it and created it.

You can and do love people perfectly well without needing to hump them. I do it every day. Don't you?

originally posted by: ParasuvO

originally posted by: UnBreakable

originally posted by: wheresthebody
It really is a shame that more "christians" aren't all that christ-like.

Yep. Ghandi said the same thing.

I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.
― Mahatma Gandhi

Ghandi. Another weak leader using wishful thinking to appease the hidden masters.

They wonder why they never affect REAL change..

Because they are ORDERED too.

Kinda like Christ.

originally posted by: ParasuvO

originally posted by: wheresthebody
It really is a shame that more "christians" aren't all that christ-like.

Well why would they be.. they are not GOD.

You know this because it has been revealed to you by God.

God bless.

originally posted by: DeathSlayer
a reply to: UnBreakable

THOUGH SHALL NOT KILL.

Is that good enough for why NOT to have an abortion or does it need to be spelled out for you?

Then why is the Old Testament full of stories where god kills? He's the biggest hypocrit of them all. Practice what you preach.
It amazes me that a majority of Bible-thumping Christians are against abortion, yet pro death penalty. That's pro-birth, not pro-life. They're the biggest hypocrits of them all.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: kaylaluv

Because marriage is still about creating whole families: father, mother, children. That is why God designed it and created it.

Marriage is man-made. It's been going on in some form since the first cave man drug his cave woman by the hair into his cave - and it has changed in concept over time and across cultures.

My step-son recently married - neither of them want kids. They just want to be with each other for life and have it legally recognized by the state. Think Jesus is going to put them into hell just because they don't have kids?

originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: DeathSlayer

Yeah nothing's wrong with forcing people to bow and worship. That's true love.

Sounds a little "ISIS-ish", doesn't it?

And this is what called judging...... but what's worse..... you both have judged God.

Good luck with that.

a reply to: DeathSlayer

Yeah we all know what happens to the North Koreans who judged Lil' Kimmie Boy.