Rape focuses critical attention on Dems 'sanctuary' states - Maryland

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Vasa Croe

Well I don't consider someone who shoplifted a candy bar the same level of deviant as someone who burgled a house and stole their Van Gough painting the same way I don't consider crossing the border the same level of deviancy as literally any other crime. In fact, I consider it to be a victimless crime. A category of crime that I consider to be the least offensive of all crimes. Things like prostitution, drug use, gambling.

I wonder how victimless that little girl felt when she was raped by these "loaf of bread thieves"....

Strawman. I never claimed that rape was a victimless crime. Keep the topic straight and stop twisting my words please. I'm speaking to you civilly, I expect you to do the same to me.

No, you didn't say rape was victimless, you said those that committed the rape initially committed a victimless crime.

As for your bread analogy, it is more likely that person will ask someone for bread. If they steal it, then yes they have committed a crime. The comparison is silly though.

originally posted by: Shangralah

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Shangralah

The Bill of Rights applies to all people within this country and trying to enter it; not just Americans. Illegals are afforded every right a full citizen is in correspondence with the law whether you like it or not. And if you don't like it, take it up with our founding fathers.

Again I agree but not once you rape our daughter.

The bill of rights applies to even the accused. Just because you find rape reprehensible doesn't mean we can strip the accused of their right to due process and not being subjected to cruel and unusual punishments.

a reply to: Vasa Croe

This is terrible, and I hope that these two men (they're basically men...in 9th grade...) get the most harsh punishment that they can get in line with the law (or worse...after they're thrown in prison).

That said, these guys appear to be legal immigrants, and the bitching about sanctuary-city status really only directly affects illegal immigrants, so the comparison between the two--even though I'm absolutely opposed to this sanctuary-city bulls**t--are false comparisons in this particular case.

And for every legal immigrant that commits such horrible acts, there are probably 100 times as many who live law-abiding, productive lives.

a reply to: Vasa Croe

I asked you if you think it is wrong to steal that bread. So I was trying to get your personal opinion on the matter. Not the law's opinion. I know the law considers it a crime. That's part of the analogy I'm making here.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

Should the law be followed? I don't feel I need to argue that point.

That's the debate for the ages. This country was founded on bucking authority.

You also gave me evidence that illegal immigrants are more likely to be incarcerated than legal ones.

And? What is that supposed to mean to you? To me that just says that illegals are more likely to be incarcerated because they were picked up for being illegal immigrants. Not because they happen to be ACTUAL criminal deviants.

Incarceration involves being convicted of a crime. Due process and all that.

Yes it seems to me that protecting illegal immigrants is to spit in the face of legal ones, the people who spend years to become Americans through legal means. Sanctuary cities are actually anti-immigrant on those grounds.

originally posted by: SlapMonkey
a reply to: Vasa Croe

This is terrible, and I hope that these two men (they're basically men...in 9th grade...) get the most harsh punishment that they can get in line with the law (or worse...after they're thrown in prison).

That said, these guys appear to be legal immigrants, and the bitching about sanctuary-city status really only directly affects illegal immigrants, so the comparison between the two--even though I'm absolutely opposed to this sanctuary-city bulls**t--are false comparisons in this particular case.

And for every legal immigrant that commits such horrible acts, there are probably 100 times as many who live law-abiding, productive lives.

One suspect, Henry E. Sanchez, 18, of Guatemala had been stopped by a Border Patrol agent in August 2016 in Rio Valley Grande, Texas, when he entered the country illegally from Mexico. Sanchez was ordered to appear before an immigration judge, but the hearing had not yet been scheduled.

It was not immediately clear if the other suspect, Jose O. Montano, 17, from El Salvador, was in the county illegally but county executive Ike Leggett told local press both had outstanding ICE orders.

Pretty sure you don't get an outstanding ICE order for being here legally.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Why would you be O.K. with sanctuary cities though. They are illegal by there very nature.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Vasa Croe

I asked you if you think it is wrong to steal that bread. So I was trying to get your personal opinion on the matter. Not the law's opinion. I know the law considers it a crime. That's part of the analogy I'm making here.

Yes, I do think it's wrong. If I were in that situation and nobody could help, I would likely steal the bread myself. If I were caught I would expect whatever punishment to be handed down too. I would know going in to commit the act that this was the case and make a conscious decision to do it based on need. That doesn't change the fact it is illegal and punishable.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

Should the law be followed? I don't feel I need to argue that point.

That's the debate for the ages. This country was founded on bucking authority.

You also gave me evidence that illegal immigrants are more likely to be incarcerated than legal ones.

And? What is that supposed to mean to you? To me that just says that illegals are more likely to be incarcerated because they were picked up for being illegal immigrants. Not because they happen to be ACTUAL criminal deviants.

Incarceration involves being convicted of a crime. Due process and all that.

Yes it seems to me that protecting illegal immigrants is to spit in the face of legal ones, the people who spend years to become Americans through legal means. Sanctuary cities are actually anti-immigrant on those grounds.

That's a fair point, but that really speaks to the fact that we need to overhaul our legal immigration process (which I agree needs to be done). Except that the current administration wants to clamp down on that too.

originally posted by: Voyaging
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Why would you be O.K. with sanctuary cities though. They are illegal by there very nature.

The same way I'm OK with people smoking pot. It is also illegal.

a reply to: Vasa Croe

It seems like women these days are more concerned with immigrants rights then womens rights.

America is weird.

a reply to: Vasa Croe

It certainly doesn't, but it speaks to the fact that morals are ambiguous and the law could do to be a bit more flexible.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

So you are inferring that legalizing Cannabis, not 'pot', is essentially the same as allowing anyone who crosses the border full citizenship?

a reply to: Voyaging

Sanctuary cities don't offer full citizenship to illegals. They just protect them from deportation efforts when they aren't violent criminals or attached to cartels.

originally posted by: Vasa Croe
Well...i wonder how many in Montgomery County want to be a sanctuary state now? This is EXACTLY the thing all of the left PC snowflakes have been screaming doesn't happen...and yet it happened to a 14 year old girl in school. Good job Maryland Dems!!!!

Anyone else think those that pushed for the sanctuary should face charges as well? This has to stop....hopefully it will get us that much closer to shutting the border to depravity like this.

link

The rape of a 14-year-old girl last week in a boys’ bathroom of a Maryland high school, for which two immigrants have been charged, has fueled opposition to officials making the state a sanctuary for illegal immigrants.

At least they'll be tried as adults and likely get life sentences...but then we get to pay for them as well! Lose lose situation!!!

Your really using one incident to make a broad statement on all immigrants....

Really..

This breaks like every logical fallacy rule from debate class....

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: Shangralah

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: Shangralah

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Shangralah

Jail is a good place for them. Rape is illegal after all.

Not what I asked,

I answered the question. If we deport them, what's to stop them from coming back across the border and doing this again? At least in jail they won't have their freedom anymore to do that.

In jail they are still sucking on the tit of Americans. Costing us.

That is a trade off yes, but what would you say if we deported these two and they snuck back into our country and did this again?

I would be wondering if a wall would help stop them...and why PC dogooders are trying to make excuses across the board for insanity.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Voyaging

Sanctuary cities don't offer full citizenship to illegals. They just protect them from deportation efforts when they aren't violent criminals or attached to cartels.

Right, Sanctuary cities allow illegals to continue breaking the law.

Here are some fun figures direct from ICE on how many removals were convicted of crimes prior to removal.

Removals Overview ICE conducted 240,255 removals.

ICE conducted 65,332 removals of individuals apprehended by ICE officers (i.e., interior removals).

60,318 (92 percent) of all interior removals were previously convicted of a crime.

ICE conducted 174,923 removals of individuals apprehended at or near the border or ports of entry.

58 percent of all ICE removals, or 138,669, were previously convicted of a crime.

ICE conducted 60,318 interior criminal]/b] removals.

ICE removed 78,351 criminals apprehended at or near the border or ports of entry.

99.3 percent of all ICE FY 2016 removals, or 238,466, met one or more of ICE’s stated civil immigration enforcement priorities.

Of the 101,586 aliens removed who had no criminal conviction, 95 percent, or 96,572, were apprehended at or near the border or ports of entry.

The leading countries of origin for removals were Mexico, Guatemala, Honduras, and El Salvador.

2,057 aliens removed by ICE were classified as suspected or confirmed gang members.

ICE

Now that is a LOT of criminals and a LOT more trying to get in....and that was just for 2016! But maybe they got them all....

a reply to: worldstarcountry

Agreed...The laws of the land need to be enforced, if you don't like the laws then you need to go about changing them. Ignoring the law is not the answer. What if we ignored the laws on drunk driving, rape, and murder? Where do you draw the line? Everyday...well not everyday as I work from home, but when I do go out for a drive I drive above the speed limit (by like 5mph), but I also realize there are consequences and I accept those if I am pulled over. If you come over here from wherever and you get caught...sorry you know you're breaking the law, accept those consequences, go the legal route.

What I can't wrap my mind around is it's not like anyone (in general) is saying don't let anyone in! It's simply hey go through the front door, don't sneak around the back. Enter legally or accept the consequences.

originally posted by: ParasuvO

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: Shangralah

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: Shangralah

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Shangralah

Jail is a good place for them. Rape is illegal after all.

Not what I asked,

I answered the question. If we deport them, what's to stop them from coming back across the border and doing this again? At least in jail they won't have their freedom anymore to do that.

In jail they are still sucking on the tit of Americans. Costing us.

That is a trade off yes, but what would you say if we deported these two and they snuck back into our country and did this again?

I would be wondering if a wall would help stop them...and why PC dogooders are trying to make excuses across the board for insanity.

If our deportation forces aren't stopping them, then a wall will just be a speed bump in their quest to continue to come State-side.