Would a god require worship?

originally posted by: PapagiorgioCZ
It's not the smartest thing to build your personal philosophy on what you see on TV.
Only politicians needs your energy like this

it's also not a good idea to build your philosophy on a 2000-year-old collection of books written by ignorant tribal goat herder's.

originally posted by: tribal
the God of the bible doesnt need worship.....worship is like love.....its a circle.....everything we give goes to God and comes back to us again via the circuit of connectedness....

and what is worship anyway? isnt it awe? isnt it adoration? we worship all kinds of things freely....but all of the sudden when its God we want to ask why it deserves worship when it created us?

LOL

that is a whole lot of opinion unless you can prove any of it.

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
a reply to: Vector99

Nope. Islam is strictly voluntarily; the Qur'an says there is to be no compulsion in religion; and we believe that we are choosing to serve God by voluntarily following His teachings. Any "requirements" for Muslims are like saying "If you really want to be the best servant of God, then do A & B while avoiding C. D is optional, but not advised."

So the way this relates to the OP is pretty clear. None of us has to pray. It won't affect God in the least bit if no human prays. But if we want to prove that we are true followers of His and that we deserve a spot in Heaven, we would pray and follow His other teachings. Those prayers directly benefit us in the Hereafter, while sometimes providing benefits to us right here on Earth.

For example, there are some Surahs from the Qur'an which are recited when trying to "pray away" danger or fear. That doesn't benefit God in the slightest bit because those worldly dangers and fears can't harm Him, but it clearly benefits the Muslims who recite them, even if only by giving a false sense of security. There are other optional prayers that we may perform for special occasions. Once again, God doesn't need these at all. But it's our way of showing Him that we're still revering & remembering Him (and thankful to Him) even during our moments of happiness.

LOL it is most certainly compulsion. Tell me again what is the consequence for being a nonbeliever? And also what is the consequence of apostasy?

a reply to: Woodcarver

if you don't pray this is the consequence in Islam

1. Allah takes away blessings from his age (makes his life misfortunate)
2.Allah does not accept his plea (du'a)
3.Allah erases the features of good people from his face.
4.He will be detested by all creatures on earth.
5.Allah does not reward him for his good deeds (no thawab)
6.He will not be included in the du'a (supplications) of good people.
The three punishments while dying:
1. He dies humiliated.
2. He dies hungry.
3. He dies thirsty. Even if he drinks the water of all the seas he will still be thirsty.
The three punishments in the grave:
1. Allah tightens his grave until his chest ribs come over each other.
2. Allah pours on him fire with embers.
3. Allah sets on him a snake called "the brave", "the bold" which hits him from morning until afternoon for leaving the Fajr (early morning) prayer, from the afternoon until Asr (late afternoon) for leaving the Dhuhr (noon) prayer and so on. With each strike he sinks 70 yards under the ground.
The three punishments on the day of judgement:
1. Allah sends who would accompany him to hell pulling him on the face.
2. Allah gives him an angry look that makes the flesh of his face fall down.
3. Allah judges him strictly and orders him to be thrown in hell.

But of course prayer is completely optional

originally posted by: Vector99
a reply to: Woodcarver

if you don't pray this is the consequence in Islam

1. Allah takes away blessings from his age (makes his life misfortunate)
2.Allah does not accept his plea (du'a)
3.Allah erases the features of good people from his face.
4.He will be detested by all creatures on earth.
5.Allah does not reward him for his good deeds (no thawab)
6.He will not be included in the du'a (supplications) of good people.
The three punishments while dying:
1. He dies humiliated.
2. He dies hungry.
3. He dies thirsty. Even if he drinks the water of all the seas he will still be thirsty.
The three punishments in the grave:
1. Allah tightens his grave until his chest ribs come over each other.
2. Allah pours on him fire with embers.
3. Allah sets on him a snake called "the brave", "the bold" which hits him from morning until afternoon for leaving the Fajr (early morning) prayer, from the afternoon until Asr (late afternoon) for leaving the Dhuhr (noon) prayer and so on. With each strike he sinks 70 yards under the ground.
The three punishments on the day of judgement:
1. Allah sends who would accompany him to hell pulling him on the face.
2. Allah gives him an angry look that makes the flesh of his face fall down.
3. Allah judges him strictly and orders him to be thrown in hell.

But of course prayer is completely optional

How can it be voluntary if there are such consequences? Consequences make it compulsory.

Working in a food kitchen is voluntary. There are no consequences for not doing it.

a reply to: Akragon

Only a "jealous god" would. Of course jealousy is a human emotion / condition, which is a total disaster for Holy Bible types to reconcile. How except on earth would a supreme being be as petty and narcissistic as we humans???

What does God need with a worship?

a reply to: Woodcarver

I never said it was

Would an omnipotent monotheistic type god need worship? No, pretty obviously not. The fact that all monotheistic religions portray their god as 'jealous' shows how absurd they are. These gods are either afraid of something (presumably the other gods) or dependent upon their own creation.

Polytheistic systems can incorporate the desire for worship much more organically. From the Epic of Gilgamesh, Tablet XI.

The gods--those of the Anunnaki--were weeping with her, the gods humbly sat weeping, sobbing with grief(?), their lips burning, parched with thirst.

Then, later from the same tablet.

I offered incense in front of the mountain-ziggurat. Seven and seven cult vessels I put in place, and (into the fire) underneath (or: into their bowls) I poured reeds, cedar, and myrtle. The gods smelled the savor, the gods smelled the sweet savor, and collected like flies over a (sheep) sacrifice.

This heavily implies that while the gods may not need sacrifice, they certainly enjoy it. It also fits in with the Mesopotamian conception that humanity was created after the lesser gods decided they didn't want to do certain sorts of labor anymore.

a reply to: LupusDiscus

This lunacy is why I turned strict agnostic.

If there is such a god that creates worlds, and isnt a human that built a computer simulation, then if it saw I had the intellect to reject these human centric notions of what gods are, and still lived by karma without even believing it to be some supernatural force, then it surely wouldnt damn me to 'hell' (if it'd even notice what I think in the first place). If it did have a 'heaven' based on such narcissistic jealousy, to me that would be the definition of DYSTOPIA so I wouldn't even want to go there in the first place. Worship Warship.

originally posted by: enlightenedservant

Nope. Islam is strictly voluntarily; the Qur'an says there is to be no compulsion in religion; and we believe that we are choosing to serve God by voluntarily following His teachings.

That same ole line again. What next the Quran says"to kill a life is like killing the whole of mankind and to save a life is like saving all of mankind. Just, that was what God had ordained for the people of Israel. The next verse is for Muslims which commands killing crucifying and chopping off limbs etc.

The Game:
Verse 2:256 from the Quran is often quoted to prove what a tolerant religion Islam is.  The verse supposedly reads in part, "Let there be no compulsion in religion; truth stands out clearly from error..."


The Truth:
The word "let" is not in the Arabic, so the verse is not an imperative.  What it actually says is "there is no compulsion in religion..."  It is a statement that true belief can't be forced.  However, this is not to say that others can't be forced into an outward manifestation of faith, such as the pillars of Islam:

Allah's Apostle (Muhammad) said, "I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah'. And if they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property will be sacred to us and we will not interfere with them except legally."  Bukhari 8:387

Even within the same sura (chapter) of the Quran that verse 256 appears, Muslims are instructed to "fight with them (non-Muslims) until there is no more persecution and religion is only for Allah.  (v. 2:193)"  Apologists claim that this applied to the people of Mecca.  They should also note that the Meccans were later forcibly converted.

Read more about it here

But on topic, if there is no expression of reverence and adoration, the individuals would have to consider themselves higher than God, so yes I`d say its required.

originally posted by: enlightenedservant

What about when you try to leave Islam, quit believing in Muhammad, stop being a Muslim, criticize whatever, start worshiping another god, etc?

It probably works differently - I think Gods are created by humans and need to be worshiped to have their power. It's so weird that us humans (including me) don't understand what we are a part of.

originally posted by: NthOther

originally posted by: Akragon

But HE needs your support!!

You got that backwards. Worship is for our benefit, not His.

First reply was the reply I was hoping for. Nice.

originally posted by: enlightenedservant

originally posted by: Vector99

originally posted by: NthOther

originally posted by: Akragon

But HE needs your support!!

You got that backwards. Worship is for our benefit, not His.

Not if you are Muslim.

That's a straight up lie. In Islam, we need God but He doesn't need us. So NthOther's post is correct even for Muslims.

I am saying this in the nicest possible way, but a lot of muslims seem to think that they need to do your god's work.

They do killings and behaeadings and floggings and incarcerations and throwing gays of buildings and calling others names and forcing other humans to dress a certain way and insulting women who wear shorter skirts in their own country.

It's almost as if they don't understand that no insult, no drawings, no dress sense, no other opinion, no gayness, no blasphemie should have any influence on them because their god can take care of HIM [male]self.

They just don't get it and behave as if their god is a helpless being that relies on the puny humans to do all the punishing for him.
Please, someone tell these god-helpers that the world would be a far more pleasant place if they could just shrug their shoulders, develop a thicker skin and trust your god to fend for himself.
At least the x-tian god seems to be self-efficient by handing out the punsishment after death, so his flock doesn't need to.

Again, I don't mean that in a nasty way but it is a valid point that has always made me wonder about the capabilities of any god that needs humans to do his deed for him.
Also is it right to allow humans to meddle in his affairs? Because humans are prone to stupidity and shouldn't be trusted.

A weak jealous controlling God would require war ship.

Unless God or Gods are psychic entities that feed of different aspect of human emotions wether symbiotic or parasitic.

And if it about some all creating God, I doubt it would care what anyone thinks. The classic battle of good an evil would have long been dealt with before it even started on such scale.

And it would be smart to respect Roman gods in Rome, or some poor unlucky bigot that got stuck in mecca shouldn't throw stone if they live in a glass house. I've also heard of increase of alpha brain waves from people that come or are in church, but that was through the grape vine.

So if it true, worship might be a good way of transitioning to different brain waves maybe. Idk, science is just as lazy, as I am.

a reply to: Akragon

God is Love (1 John 4). Love gave itself completely, then rested from all its work in creation. Creation was then given to us so that we could find the aspect of God that is worthy of worship. Love. Mirroring this worship is how we worship. We give to others and receive only. Thieves take. Ego is the thief of worship. Worship is the Saint of Love's reason. What is the reason behind worship? Manu (mankind) is the first thought of God beyond the thought itself (Spirit). Manu in Sanskrit means, "To Think."

Assign worth to God for the reason he assigned worth to us a his image. LOVE.

a reply to: Vector99

Islam has been tainted by false teachers and false Hadiths.

None of what you posted is supported by the Quran. I only follow what is supported in the Quran.

There is no penalty for not worshipping God in the Quran.

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
a reply to: Akragon

Only a "jealous god" would. Of course jealousy is a human emotion / condition, which is a total disaster for Holy Bible types to reconcile. How except on earth would a supreme being be as petty and narcissistic as we humans???

A jealous God would not be an omnipotent God.