Real Christ Relics expose who try to mythify him.

a reply to: Woodcarver

Really?

That is the most upside down hypothesis of forging Christian relics I ever have read about in my life.

Who in his sane mind was going to falsify an object attributed to be a belonging of Joshua Bar Josef in the a century in which his followers were unmercifully hunted as criminals by the Roman Authority? That is not being smart in business but suicider.

Now, relics are not used to sell services to anybody, you can get access for free to one if you are in need of healing and you are a parrishioner or at least a member of the congregation.

A very different thing is that the grateful people after they got the favors or cures they were looking for decide to donate what ever they want in return as an exvote.

Now, no body has been evet charged to be able to attend an exhibition of the Veronica veil in St Peter the good Fridays, or to attend an ostentation of the Shroud of Turin. Even not Catholics can take part on those public acts, any tourist can do so, without ticket.

I think you have read to much look like Davinci code fiction novels my friend, reality does not work in the way you claim.

The Angel of Lightness

a reply to: The angel of light

Why wouldn't they make fakes at a similar time as a mythical person (or at least pass on a similar age object as something it's not)? The answer is obvious.

To make money. The biggest motivator in the world. To think otherwise is naive.

There's been fakes of pretty much everything, including religious "relics" and art work.

a reply to: TerryDon79

Make money with relics in times of the prosecutions under Nero? Are you insane?

For much less than that there were martyrs dying devored by lions in the circus massimo, going into death due to be followers of whom you boldly and ignorantly suggest was a myth?

There is nothing more difficult to overcome that the fear of a horrible end like that, it challenges the instinct of self preservation.

First at all,it is clear that this is another one of your malicious comments intended to make the people be doubtful of what ever attains to Christianism.

I have enough time in dealing with your replies in different threads to know that this is your personal obsession, to boycott what ever smells holyness, and just the eyes of the avatar you have chosen here express that clearly.

Second, access to relics are not traded, neither in the past nor now, even the Veronica veil, the thorns crown, the sacred Tunic, Cap and Garments of Christ, the Holy Sudarium at Oviedo, The veil and garment of the Blessed Virgin Mary, the Shroud of Turin or the Holy Grail at Valencia have been along centuries many times in public exhibitions open to the public just for free.

The Angel of Lightness

a reply to: The angel of light

Yeah I'm obsessed lol. Coming from the person who needs things to try and push their religion on everyone else.

But you keep up your idolatry. I'm sure your flavour of god would be proud.

a reply to: TerryDon79

That is an absurd and extremely ridicule subjective argument, nothing to do at all with the topic here in discussion.

This thread is studying the different material evidences of the life of Josua Bar Josef, a public Hebrew figure that lived in the early first century from a rigorous historic point of view.

The only fanatic fundamentalism here comes from your attacks all moved by an irrational Anti Christian fanaticism.

I don't have any interest into promote any religious affiliation here, just to discuss a very important chapter that determines the characterization of the Western civilization.

The Angel of Lightness

a reply to: The angel of light

What utter nonesense.

Of course you're here promoting and worshipping supposed religious relics. If they weren't, you wouldn't be here pushing them and idolising them.

You call me a fundementalist when you're the fundemental (supposed) christian who can't see that there are obvious fakes out there, dating back a VERY long time.

Just like the laughable 4 nails that Saint Helena brought back. That would either make the nails a fake or a three nail crucifixion a fake. If the 3 nail crucifixion is a fake, then anything depicting a 3 nail crucifixion is a fake (shroud of Turin for example).

But your religious bias can't see that. All you can see is that ALL relics are real. It's a joke and I'm the one doing the laughing.

Like I said. You just keep on idolising your precious objects. I'm sure it will make you feel safe lol.

a reply to: LABTECH767

Now yes I have another motive which is my belief in Jesus, like your avatar he was a wood carver, he once healed a man whom had been born blind but he gave the man perfect sight and so he saw people as Tree's walking

I do not know how you would have come to this conclusion, but the man did not know what trees looked like either. That alone renders Woodcarver's point substantiated. The rest of your thread is moot.

a reply to: The angel of light

Whether they can be properly identified, as some want, or not I would say it does not matter at this point of the journey.

It has been made known to the world.

Now it seems as if, people just grow more and more confused and will not even consider the evidence that surrounds us everyday.

Good post and may Christ lead your steps.

a reply to: TerryDon79

Really? you have invaded a thread about History with hatred and fanaticism not due to anything I have said but since you are obssesed against Christ, that can be seen by anybody.

Where are your supposed serious sources supporting such rare claims you are bringing here?

All are miserable mere speculations coming from minds resented against religion isn't it?

I have posted a lot of published references to analyze these material remains of the beginning of Christianism along many of my replies.

You instead always bring here an every time longer and a longer dark legend that only can be clearly the product of evil imagination,an Invented fiction coming from a sick mind.

The Angel of Lightness

a reply to: 3daysgone

So you thought I had disappeared because my post was a few days late, sorry still here and it is your point that is patently moot.

For example a blind person knows how an object feel's and do you really think God would give sight without giving the understanding to go with it?, maybe your God but not the Real God.

a reply to: LABTECH767

For example a blind person knows how an object feel's and do you really think God would give sight without giving the understanding to go with it

So you believe that they didn't know what a tree felt like and that God didn't give them the understanding that people were not trees?
Good God man. Listen to yourself.

Edited to add that I have no idea what your talking about with the few days late. I posted just a little while before you replied.

a reply to: The angel of light

History made up by the religious to push a religion.

BTW, you might want to check which forum this is in.

I find it hilarious that you don't even know the history of your own religion. idolatry has been pushed by the Christian church since the first record of it.

a reply to: 3daysgone

Dear 3daysgone,

I agree with you, we are living times in which there is a so serious manipulation of the public opinion through the abuse of propaganda, people believe that they can even rewrite entire chapters of History and that since they happened so long time ago nobody is going to notice the difference.

What we are witnessing is not History, because anyway life of religious figures or leaders is also History, it is the ability to distort facts and deny History.

Moreover, they do not only lie and misinform, and launch false accusations they are also extremely cynics, talking about making up facts when that is precisely what they are doing while supporting new bold theories about History never proven and with No serious references to quote about.

That is the only idolatry present here, the one toward the power of malicious propaganda to misinform, thinking that a lie repeated thousand times becomes truth.

Thanks

The Angel of Lightness

a reply to: The angel of light

It's not about idolatry? Did you really say that?

Did you forget that, many years ago, when the churches were in their infancy, they had to display a relic otherwise it wasn't a sanctioned church? They literally worshipped things in a building, much like the way people of religion do today.

Maybe you shoukd read about your religions history

Not about idolatry lol.

a reply to: TerryDon79

The Oxford encyclopedic link you have provided does not have one single time the word idolatry, it is Instead several times mentioned that it has been honoring and veneration of the people those relics came from, Saints or Christ, hence is part of a memorial respect.

You don't know what are you talking about clearly.

As my very first reply to you in this thread said you are not idolatring your grand father or grand mother when you are venerating any of their pictures.

The Angel of Lightness

a reply to: The angel of light

You didn't look very hard, did you?

From the link I provided....

The worship of saints' relics is closely tied to the growth of the Christian church.

Worshipping of relics. I think there's a word for that. Oh yeah! It's called idolatry.

idolatry

[ahy-dol-uh-tree]
noun, plural idolatries.
1.
the religious worship of idols.
2.
excessive or blind adoration, reverence, devotion, etc.

From the dictionary

idol

[ahyd-l]
noun
1.
an image or other material object representing a deity to which religious worship is addressed.
2.
Bible.
an image of a deity other than God.
the deity itself.

From the dictionary

So, like I said, your thread is about idolatry and the church has been actively promoting it since around 200ad.

a reply to: The angel of light

I agree with you, we are living times in which there is a so serious manipulation of the public opinion through the abuse of propaganda, people believe that they can even rewrite entire chapters of History and that since they happened so long time ago nobody is going to notice the difference.

I have come to terms with history and the divine nature of man.

What we are witnessing is not History, because anyway life of religious figures or leaders is also History, it is the ability to distort facts and deny History.

In a manner of speaking I suppose. The confusion among man will come to pass one day and they will learn the truth. It isn't the reality of us witnessing history that is important. It is how the reality of history witnessing us that we should be concerned with.

Moreover, they do not only lie and misinform, and launch false accusations they are also extremely cynics, talking about making up facts when that is precisely what they are doing while supporting new bold theories about History never proven and with No serious references to quote about.

This should come as no surprise, but the sting of false accusation is a witness unto themselves.

That is the only idolatry present here, the one toward the power of malicious propaganda to misinform, thinking that a lie repeated thousand times becomes truth.

The ones that endure to the end will know the Truth.

Blessings of Wisdom to you.

a reply to: 3daysgone

Dear 3daysgone,

I would add that it is extremely exaggerated and bold the discourse of the ones that talk about a systematic falsification of holy relics.

Many of the so called false relics were never that, the problem is that secular people don't know how to distinguish in between 1st, 2nd and third class relics.

It is not that there are dozens of holy nails, but that the major part of the ones exist were just touched to the original ones used to crucified Christ.

Any serious Historian knows that there are dozens of copies of the Holy Shroud touched to the original, this since it is believed, following what it is clearly said in the New Testament that anything that touched Jesus received or transmitted his healing power.

A lot of European Princes and Archbishops got authorized copies of the Holy relics of Jesus or Mary and the Apostles. Probably poor labeling of them created concussion about that the were just replicas.

Thanks

The Angel of lightness

a reply to: The angel of light

I would add that it is extremely exaggerated and bold the discourse of the ones that talk about a systematic falsification of holy relics.

I would add that it is bolder to say that there is no God. For in him there is only one choice.

Many of the so called false relics were never that, the problem is that secular people don't know how to distinguish in between 1st, 2nd and third class relics. It is not that there are dozens of holy nails, but that the major part of the ones exist were just touched to the original ones used to crucified Christ.

I believe you. How important are these relics? If I may ask?

Any serious Historian knows that there are dozens of copies of the Holy Shroud touched to the original, this since it is believed, following what it is clearly said in the New Testament that anything that touched Jesus received or transmitted his healing power.

Once you put your belief in Christ nothing else is needed. They are important for recorded history I believe, but we know where the real healing power comes from.

A lot of European Princes and Archbishops got authorized copies of the Holy relics of Jesus or Mary and the Apostles. Probably poor labeling of them created concussion about that the were just replicas

I would imagine that they are still around. But in the end they have served their purpose. The message has been spread. The choices have been made. Now is only the journey.

Bless you Brother, keep on the path.

a reply to: 3daysgone

Well, responding to your question, the first class relics of Jesus Christ are key elements that can help us to show beyond any reasonable doubt, together with the secular sources on his existence, that is, the roman and jewish records of his time that actually mentioned him, that he was an actual human being that lived in this earth and so that his life is not a mythical tale manufactured by the gospels authors, as some sort of atheistic intellectuals try to challenge in our days.

For instance, In 2010 Another astonishing discovery was done when Scientists were able to decode strange letters that appeared surrounded the human image imprinted in the shroud of Turin.

The History of the findings of those labels in the cloth goes back to the Analysis done in 1978 but STURP, a committee of NASA and private American laboratories experts that analyzed the cloth.

Now, these strange pieces of text, like attached to his body or perhaps even tattooed to his skin, emerge as forensic labels that were attached in some way to the corpse to identify it as a person officially certified as diseased in a criminal execution by the Roman authorities in the 1st century.

Please check:

www.youtube.com...

This discovery was preceded by another not less important that shows how over his eyes it is possible to see also images of Roman coins of the times of Pilates, that supposedly were used in burial ceremonies , a that time even also not only in Hebrews but according with the Greek and Roman costumes.

Please check:

people.duke.edu...

Thanks,

The Angel of Lightness