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Real Christ Relics expose who try to mythify him.

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posted on Feb, 5 2017 @ 08:16 AM
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a reply to: LABTECH767

Well, I personally have a deep respect for the Marian devotion, I think it is entirely logical that if we admire Jesus Christ as a spiritual leader of humanity, a key historic figure of the middle East, we must feel interest and similar respect for the woman that was behind him.

There is consensus among Historians that Jesus was not married, that is the generalized information we can find in all sources steadly based in the tradition, and since behind every great man there is a woman is Mary who we must look at.

I warned that the threat was deviating from its original topic since I noticed that a terrible fanatic Anti Catholic storm was triggered, and well Mary of Nazareth got perhaps the worst part of it, something shocked me.

First at all, there has been off topic systematic posting here, openly comitting thread drift, with replies that are not at all discussing the historicity of Joshua Bar Josef, that is the subject here. Many posts were treating to convert this thread in a battle field of theological positions, something I strongly disagree to, and I am who opened the thread for the History forum.

Now, just as a remark even in that line of thinking some of the posts are extremely low in quality. I don't conceive that somebody claim to be a genuine admirer of Jesus or a Christian and at the same time is talking terrible things against his mother, it is pretty obvious the contradiction even in such extremely off topic arguments of inforluker for instance.

Now, some of the historically traceable relics that this thread is about, kept by centuries according with archive records, are of his mother Mary: there is her veil, her seemless tunic, and others by sure are coming to us because she preserved them in first instance, how we could have the holy crib, the holy manger, or the diaper or pampers or other baby clothes otherwise?

You are quite right there is Marian devotion outside of Catholicism, especially in Eastern Christianity, but the topic here is the historicity of these Archaeological objects, how they were originally collected and found.

I would expect that if the intention is to remain in topic we must talk about the Emperor Constantine edict of Milan and the trip of his mother St Helena to the Holy land in search for this relics.

Thanks

The Angel of Lightness
edit on 2/5/2017 by The angel of light because: (no reason given)




posted on Feb, 5 2017 @ 03:03 PM
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a reply to: Woodcarver

I sincerely think it is not only bold but misleading to think that due to a fact that it may exist doubts about the Origen of a relic, then all relics are product of forgery.

That is to underestimate the capacity of the followers of Christ to preserve what it belonged to him, to maintain alive his memory

Also, they were in many cases certified according with the standards of their original time frame, it might be absurd to request a C14 or a Spectroscopy or mechanical fabric properties analysis to be done 15 or 20 centuries ago to satisfy skeptics, those are modern standards.

Empress Helena of Rome, the mother of Constantine performed an exhaustive really deep search for these relics in the Fourth century, and the ones she didn't collect were well preserved by Christians of the middle East either until the invasion of the Islam, or until the crusades when they were moved to the west.

What this powerful Roman lady brought to Rome was collected in an action of secular authority, so it is unlikely to find any attempt of forgery on that.

Please check:

numismatics.org...

www.listverse.com...

There could be forgeries but through the pass of centuries the own Institutions control bureaus, like the so rigorous Catholic Inquisition, were very efficient to uncover those frauds and destroy what it was false, and punish whoever was behind them. Hence the relics we have now are what remains after such carefully testing and prosecution.

Thanks for your comment.

The Angel of Lightness
edit on 2/5/2017 by The angel of light because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 5 2017 @ 03:13 PM
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And here was me thinking that idolatry was a big no no by religions.

Silly me.
edit on 522017 by TerryDon79 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 5 2017 @ 08:17 PM
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a reply to: TerryDon79

Have you ever worshipped the portrait of an already passed away son, or brother or a beloved friend?

I know is also a silly question, it is just a way to maintain alive the memory of some beloved one, isn't it?

Nevertheless, somebody somewhere may walk near us and surprise us in an attitude he is unable to understand, because he possibly never understood that the core of Christ Philosophy was love, hence tolerance to human imperfection, just to think we are deluding into "love" a material object.

A pray for the tormented soul of Martin Luther comes to my lips in this moment, may he has now the ability to accept that we don't need to be perfect to live in peace with the universe, we just only require to accept our limitations and learn from them, our handicaps are our best teachers.

I am sure right now he finally has found a way to accept what it was so difficult for him to grasp in life.

Let's go back into the thread topic if you don't mind.

The Angel of Lightness
edit on 2/5/2017 by The angel of light because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 5 2017 @ 08:31 PM
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a reply to: The angel of light

This is the problem!

Someone comes along and shows where your beliefs are wrong according to your own bible ...

... and you make excuses.

You have a belief ... that is all it is.

But you want everyone else to believe as you do even if it is in direct opposition to the teachings of your good book.

P



posted on Feb, 5 2017 @ 08:36 PM
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a reply to: The angel of light

No. I've never "worshipped" a photo of anyone. Living or dead.

You know that you're not supposed to "worship" items, right? It's against your religion.

But this thread (and many others) just proves how many religious people just ignore the book they so highly revere.



posted on Feb, 5 2017 @ 09:31 PM
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originally posted by: TerryDon79
But this thread (and many others) just proves how many religious people just ignore the book they so highly revere.

Another prime example of "made in man's image" and not the other way around.



posted on Feb, 5 2017 @ 09:39 PM
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a reply to: TerryDon79

That's the point, I am happy you understand no body is worshipping objects, they are just material support that recall us how real and Historic was the person of Joshua Bar Josef.

Wait a minute did you say revere a book?, be careful somebody may think that is a kind of Bible idolatry, just for the record.

It is time to go back to topic and cease the thread drifting here please.

Thanks

The Angel of Lightness
edit on 2/5/2017 by The angel of light because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 5 2017 @ 09:54 PM
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a reply to: The angel of light

All you (and the people you have linked to) have done, idolise objects. Literally every thread you've made about an object, you've made such a big deal out of it that it reads like a bit of cloth or a bit of wood is more important to you than what your mythical person supposedly taught.

So far I've been very on topic. The religious thread is about religious "relics". I've been talking about religious "relics" and how you (and others) worship them.



posted on Feb, 5 2017 @ 09:57 PM
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originally posted by: The angel of light
a reply to: LABTECH767

Well, I personally have a deep respect for the Marian devotion, I think it is entirely logical that if we admire Jesus Christ as a spiritual leader of humanity, a key historic figure of the middle East, we must feel interest and similar respect for the woman that was behind him.

There is consensus among Historians that Jesus was not married, that is the generalized information we can find in all sources steadly based in the tradition, and since behind every great man there is a woman is Mary who we must look at.

I warned that the threat was deviating from its original topic since I noticed that a terrible fanatic Anti Catholic storm was triggered, and well Mary of Nazareth got perhaps the worst part of it, something shocked me.

First at all, there has been off topic systematic posting here, openly comitting thread drift, with replies that are not at all discussing the historicity of Joshua Bar Josef, that is the subject here. Many posts were treating to convert this thread in a battle field of theological positions, something I strongly disagree to, and I am who opened the thread for the History forum.

Now, just as a remark even in that line of thinking some of the posts are extremely low in quality. I don't conceive that somebody claim to be a genuine admirer of Jesus or a Christian and at the same time is talking terrible things against his mother, it is pretty obvious the contradiction even in such extremely off topic arguments of inforluker for instance.

Now, some of the historically traceable relics that this thread is about, kept by centuries according with archive records, are of his mother Mary: there is her veil, her seemless tunic, and others by sure are coming to us because she preserved them in first instance, how we could have the holy crib, the holy manger, or the diaper or pampers or other baby clothes otherwise?

You are quite right there is Marian devotion outside of Catholicism, especially in Eastern Christianity, but the topic here is the historicity of these Archaeological objects, how they were originally collected and found.

I would expect that if the intention is to remain in topic we must talk about the Emperor Constantine edict of Milan and the trip of his mother St Helena to the Holy land in search for this relics.

Thanks

The Angel of Lightness
Do you believe these "relics" would have some special properties? Or even powers? How could one go about deducing the validity of such an object? Especially given the fact that there are obviously countless frauds.
edit on 5-2-2017 by Woodcarver because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 5 2017 @ 10:53 PM
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I have a Spear of Destiny...

Its just abit limp at the moment.

Coomba98



posted on Feb, 6 2017 @ 06:53 AM
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Ephesians 4:29
29 Let a rotten word not come out of your mouth, but only what is good for building up as the need may be, to impart what is beneficial to the hearers.
2 Timothy 4:3,4
For there will be a period of time when they will not put up with the beneficial teaching, but according to their own desires, they will surround themselves with teachers to have their ears tickled.* 4 They will turn away from listening to the truth and give attention to false stories. [*: Or “to tell them what they want to hear.”]


The person who is rightly motivated seeks understanding, not out of mere curiosity or to exalt himself, but for the very purpose of acting in wisdom; ‘wisdom is before his face.’ (Pr 17:24; see WISDOM.) He is not like those in the apostle Paul’s day who assumed to be teachers of others but were “puffed up with pride, not understanding anything,” unwisely letting themselves become “mentally diseased over questionings and debates about words,” things that produce disunity and a host of bad results.—1Ti 6:3-5:

If any man teaches another doctrine and does not agree with the beneficial instruction, which is from our Lord Jesus Christ, nor with the teaching that is in harmony with godly devotion, 4 he is puffed up with pride and does not understand anything. He is obsessed* [Or “has an unhealthy fascination.”] with arguments and debates about words. These things give rise to envy, strife, slander,*[Or “abusive speeches.”] wicked suspicions, 5 constant disputes about minor matters by men who are corrupted in mind and deprived of the truth, thinking that godly devotion is a means of gain.
Luke 16:10,11
The person faithful in what is least is faithful also in much, and the person unrighteous in what is least is unrighteous also in much. 11 Therefore, if you have not proved yourselves faithful in connection with the unrighteous riches, who will entrust you with what is true?
Proverbs 14:5
5 A faithful witness is one that will not lie,
but a false witness launches forth mere lies.
1 Timothy 4:1,2
However, the inspired word* [Lit., “the spirit.”] clearly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to misleading inspired statements* [Lit., “misleading spirits.”] and teachings of demons,
2 by the hypocrisy of men who speak lies, marked in their conscience as with a branding iron;
Isaiah 5:20,21
20 Woe to those who say that good is bad and bad is good,
Those who substitute darkness for light and light for darkness,
Those who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter!
21 Woe to those wise in their own eyes
And discreet in their own sight!
Proverbs 15:2
2 The tongue of the wise makes good use of knowledge,
But the mouth of the stupid blurts out foolishness.
Matthew 12:34 (Jesus teaching)
34 Offspring of vipers, how can you speak good things when you are wicked? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.
Col.2:4:
I am saying this so that no one may delude you with persuasive arguments.
2 Cor.11:11-15
For what reason? Because I do not love you? God knows I do. 12 But what I am doing I will continue to do, in order to eliminate the pretext of those who are wanting a basis for being found equal to us in the things about which they boast. 13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder, for Satan himself keeps disguising himself as an angel of light. 15 It is therefore nothing extraordinary if his ministers also keep disguising themselves as ministers of righteousness. But their end will be according to their works.



posted on Feb, 6 2017 @ 08:31 AM
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originally posted by: whereislogic
Ephesians 4:29
29 Let a rotten word not come out of your mouth, but only what is good for building up as the need may be, to impart what is beneficial to the hearers.
2 Timothy 4:3,4
For there will be a period of time when they will not put up with the beneficial teaching, but according to their own desires, they will surround themselves with teachers to have their ears tickled.* 4 They will turn away from listening to the truth and give attention to false stories. [*: Or “to tell them what they want to hear.”]


The person who is rightly motivated seeks understanding, not out of mere curiosity or to exalt himself, but for the very purpose of acting in wisdom; ‘wisdom is before his face.’ (Pr 17:24; see WISDOM.) He is not like those in the apostle Paul’s day who assumed to be teachers of others but were “puffed up with pride, not understanding anything,” unwisely letting themselves become “mentally diseased over questionings and debates about words,” things that produce disunity and a host of bad results.—1Ti 6:3-5:

If any man teaches another doctrine and does not agree with the beneficial instruction, which is from our Lord Jesus Christ, nor with the teaching that is in harmony with godly devotion, 4 he is puffed up with pride and does not understand anything. He is obsessed* [Or “has an unhealthy fascination.”] with arguments and debates about words. These things give rise to envy, strife, slander,*[Or “abusive speeches.”] wicked suspicions, 5 constant disputes about minor matters by men who are corrupted in mind and deprived of the truth, thinking that godly devotion is a means of gain.
Luke 16:10,11
The person faithful in what is least is faithful also in much, and the person unrighteous in what is least is unrighteous also in much. 11 Therefore, if you have not proved yourselves faithful in connection with the unrighteous riches, who will entrust you with what is true?
Proverbs 14:5
5 A faithful witness is one that will not lie,
but a false witness launches forth mere lies.
1 Timothy 4:1,2
However, the inspired word* [Lit., “the spirit.”] clearly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to misleading inspired statements* [Lit., “misleading spirits.”] and teachings of demons,
2 by the hypocrisy of men who speak lies, marked in their conscience as with a branding iron;
Isaiah 5:20,21
20 Woe to those who say that good is bad and bad is good,
Those who substitute darkness for light and light for darkness,
Those who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter!
21 Woe to those wise in their own eyes
And discreet in their own sight!
Proverbs 15:2
2 The tongue of the wise makes good use of knowledge,
But the mouth of the stupid blurts out foolishness.
Matthew 12:34 (Jesus teaching)
34 Offspring of vipers, how can you speak good things when you are wicked? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.
Col.2:4:
I am saying this so that no one may delude you with persuasive arguments.
2 Cor.11:11-15
For what reason? Because I do not love you? God knows I do. 12 But what I am doing I will continue to do, in order to eliminate the pretext of those who are wanting a basis for being found equal to us in the things about which they boast. 13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder, for Satan himself keeps disguising himself as an angel of light. 15 It is therefore nothing extraordinary if his ministers also keep disguising themselves as ministers of righteousness. But their end will be according to their works.
Do you get all of your opinions from the bible?



posted on Feb, 6 2017 @ 10:15 AM
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a reply to: Woodcarver

Well, what I believe or Not is not really relevant, but what it is said in the own Christian scriptures is that people that touched in any way Jesus Christ became healed of illnesses that medicine was unable to cure. He became famous according with those accounts because even leprosy, an illnesses that has been a challenge for medical science, was cured just by touching him or any of his garments.

Now, History accounts of the trip of Empress Helena of Constantinopla to Jerusalem and Palestine, the mother of Cesar Constantine, say that every time that a supposed genuine relic was presented to her she used to test the validity of the object by allowing extremely ill people to touch it to see what effect may produce on them.

It is said that when the true Cross was found was not alone, it was with the crosses of the two bandits that were crucified with Christ and it was not easy to determine which was was Christ one, so a very old woman with several ailments was brought and allowed to touch each of the three crosses .

An old woman was used as test for each cross , she not cured with two of the crosses but certainly became healed of all her illnesses by touching one in particular. This is registered in the diaries of trip preserved in that time, so it is not the subjective opinion of somebody in particular but an official Roman record.


The contemporary historian Eusebius recorded that Helena converted to Christianity around 312, after her emperor son, inspired by a flaming cross, had destroyed his rivals at the Milvian Bridge.

She became celebrated for her charity to the poor and to prisoners. Helena was almost 80, however, when, in 327-8, she made her pilgrimage to the Holy Land.

Jerusalem had been desecrated in 130 by the Emperor Hadrian, who had built a pagan temple on the supposed site of Jesus’s tomb near Calvary.
Helena ordered its demolition, and then selected a spot close by to start digging for relics.

Three crosses were found, and the true one identified when a sick woman was cured after touching it. Nails and a tunic were also discovered.


please check:
www.catholicherald.co.uk...


There are slightly different accounts of how the Empress determined which cross was the correct one.

According to a book called the Acts of Judas Cyriacus, the crosses were laid (one at a time) on the coffin of a dead youth. The first two crosses had no effect, but the third one instantly brought the youth back to life, thereby proving itself to be the true cross.

Another account, by the historian Rufinus, says that the test was performed on a dying woman, who was immediately restored to health when touched by the third cross. Of course it's possible that both tests were done, perhaps with different people as witnesses.


Please check:
www.gospel-mysteries.net...


Then she had thus cleansed the place [from the idol of Venus] where the Cross had stood, Helen caused deep excavations to be made, which resulted in the discovery of three crosses, and, apart from them, the writing which had been nailed on that of the Lord. But which of the crosses had been His was unknown, and was only manifested by a miracle.

Macarius, Bishop of Jerusalem, after offering solemn prayers to God, touched with each of the three a woman who was afflicted with a grievous disease. The two first had no effect, but at the touch of the third she was immediately healed.


Please check:
taylormarshall.com...

Thanks for the question,

The Angel of Lightness
edit on 2/6/2017 by The angel of light because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 6 2017 @ 10:21 AM
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a reply to: The angel of light

You didn't really answer my question though.



posted on Feb, 6 2017 @ 10:23 AM
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a reply to: The angel of light

There's also people who have done that parlour trick to sucker people into buying their snake oil. Or those religious frauds you see at church who "cure" people.

"Hey everyone! This person, that I've never met before (wink) can't walk. I can make him walk when I touch him"
Man touches person.
Person stands up and walks.
People PAY to be "cured".
Man who sells "cure", gets rich.

Sound familiar?
edit on 622017 by TerryDon79 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 6 2017 @ 09:59 PM
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a reply to: The angel of light

I guess my point being that these things are easy to forge. Especially if they started early on, within a lifetime or two of the target date. That would keep the object within the same century. From there you could say it was jesus' and there is literally no way of telling otherwise. Even if i could find a corpse from the same time frame, i could chop it's little toe off and say it's been in my family, passed down from generation to generation, and now i want to share it with the world for $12,000,000 and i'm pretty sure i could get some nibbles. I would ultimately settle for half price if you know someone.

Let's say you did find jesus' entire friggin head in a pickle jar, do you think it would heal people? I think it would have a lot of germs and could possibly do more harm than good.



posted on Feb, 7 2017 @ 02:10 AM
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Wow, all of the special ones together in one thread, is this Entmoot? I'm still missing Akragon though, you really can't have Entmoot without Akragon.
edit on 7-2-2017 by whereislogic because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 7 2017 @ 05:44 AM
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originally posted by: infolurker
a reply to: The angel of light

Colossians 1:26 Even THE MYSTERY which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

Colossians 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of THIS MYSTERY among the Gentiles; WHICH IS CHRIST IN YOU, THE HOPE OF GLORY:

Colossians 1:28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

Colossians 1:
25 I became a minister of this congregation in accord with the stewardship from God that was given to me in your behalf to preach the word of God fully, 26 the sacred secret that was hidden from the past systems of things* and from the past generations. But now it has been revealed to his holy ones, 27 to whom God has been pleased to make known among the nations the glorious riches of this sacred secret, which is Christ in union with you, the hope of his glory. 28 He is the one we are proclaiming, admonishing everyone and teaching everyone in all wisdom, so that we may present every person complete in union with Christ. 29 To this end I am indeed working hard, exerting myself with his strength that is operating powerfully within me.
Sacred Secret: Insight, Volume 2

SACRED SECRET

Something that originates with God, is withheld until his own time, and is revealed only to those to whom he chooses to make it known.

The Greek word my·steʹri·on, translated “sacred secret,” has reference primarily to that which is known by those who are initiated. In the ancient mystery religions that flourished in the time of the early Christian congregation, those who wished to take part in the mystery celebrations had to undergo initiation; the uninitiated were denied both access to the so-called sacred actions and to knowledge of them. Those initiated into them were bound by a vow of silence, not to reveal the secrets. However, there was also a secular, “everyday” use of the word, such as for a private secret, a secret between friends, family secrets. The apostle Paul uses the passive of my·eʹo in this latter sense when he says: “I have learned the secret [literally, I have been initiated into secrets] of both how to be full and how to hunger, both how to have an abundance and how to suffer want.”—Php 4:12.

Different From Mystery Religions. Concerning the Greek my·steʹri·on, Vine’s Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words explains: “In the [New Testament] it denotes, not the mysterious (as with the Eng. word), but that which, being outside the range of unassisted natural apprehension, can be made known only by Divine revelation, and is made known in a manner and at a time appointed by God, and to those only who are illumined by His Spirit. In the ordinary sense a mystery implies knowledge withheld; its Scriptural significance is truth revealed. Hence the terms especially associated with the subject are ‘made known,’ ‘manifested,’ ‘revealed,’ ‘preached,’ ‘understand,’ ‘dispensation.’”—1981, Vol. 3, p. 97.

The sacred secrets of God and other “mysteries” of the Bible, such as that of Babylon the Great, are therefore things, not to be kept secret forever, but to be revealed by Jehovah God in his own time to those who look to him and to whom he chooses to reveal them. The apostle Paul discusses this aspect of matters at 1 Corinthians 2:6-16. There he speaks of the “sacred secret” of God as “hidden wisdom,” revealed through God’s spirit to his Christian servants. It is something that the spirit of the world or the human wisdom of physical men cannot fathom but that is spoken and understood by those ‘combining spiritual matters with spiritual words.’ Jesus Christ earlier pointed out to his disciples: “To you the sacred secret [Gr., my·steʹri·on] of the kingdom of God has been given, but to those outside all things occur in illustrations, in order that, though looking, they may look and yet not see, and, though hearing, they may hear and yet not get the sense of it, nor ever turn back and forgiveness be given them.”—Mr 4:11, 12; Mt 13:11-13; Lu 8:10.

The great difference between the sacred secret of God and the secrets of mystery religions is, first of all, in content: God’s secret is good news and is not a lie or man-made deception. (Joh 8:31, 32, 44; Col 1:5; 1Jo 2:27) Second, those who are chosen to understand the sacred secret of God are bound, not to keep it secret, but to give it the widest possible proclamation and publication. This is revealed, as noted in the foregoing, by the Bible use of terms such as “preached,” “made known,” “manifested,” and also “declaring,” ‘speaking,’ in connection with “the sacred secret of the good news.” True Christians exercised the greatest vigor in telling this good news containing the understanding of the sacred secret to “all creation that is under heaven.” (1Co 2:1; Eph 6:19; Col 1:23; 4:3, 4) God determines who are not deserving and withholds understanding from such ones. God is not partial when he does this; it is because of “the insensibility of their hearts” that God does not open up to them the understanding of his sacred secret.—Eph 4:17, 18.

Centers Around Christ. Since “the bearing witness to Jesus is what inspires prophesying,” “the sacred secret of God” must center around Christ. (Re 19:10; Col 2:2) All “the sacred secrets” of God have to do with his Messianic Kingdom. (Mt 13:11) The apostle Paul writes to fellow Christians: “Carefully concealed in him are all the treasures of wisdom and of knowledge,” and “it is in him that all the fullness of the divine quality dwells bodily.”—Col 2:2, 3, 9.

Paul spoke of himself as having a stewardship of “sacred secrets of God.” (1Co 4:1) He speaks of the comprehension he has “in the sacred secret of the Christ.” (Eph 3:1-4) He explains that this sacred secret is hidden wisdom foreordained by God before the systems of things. (1Co 2:7) The declaration of the mystery, or “the sacred secret of God,” began with Jehovah’s own prophecy at Genesis 3:15. For centuries men of faith looked forward to the “seed” of promise to deliver mankind from sin and death, but it was not clearly understood just who the “seed” would be and just how this “seed” would come and bring deliverance. It was not until Christ came and “shed light upon life and incorruption through the good news” that this was made clear. (2Ti 1:10) Then the knowledge of the mystery of the ‘seed of the woman’ began to be understood.
...
For the ‘mystery of lawlessness’ (2Th 2:7), see MAN OF LAWLESSNESS. For “Mystery: ‘Babylon the Great’” (Re 17:5), see BABYLON THE GREAT.

The Lie That Made God a Mystery​—‘One God, Three Persons’
1 God Is a Mystery—Is It True?
Trinity- Mystery
Continued in next comment...
edit on 7-2-2017 by whereislogic because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 7 2017 @ 05:52 AM
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a reply to: infolurker

The Messianic Kingdom. In Paul’s writings he gives a full view of the revelation of the sacred secret of the Christ. At Ephesians 1:9-11 he speaks of God’s making known “the sacred secret” of his will, and says: “It is according to his good pleasure which he purposed in himself for an administration at the full limit of the appointed times, namely, to gather all things together again in the Christ, the things in the heavens and the things on the earth. Yes, in him, in union with whom we were also assigned as heirs, in that we were foreordained according to the purpose of him who operates all things according to the way his will counsels.” This “sacred secret” involves a government, the Messianic Kingdom of God. “The things in the heavens,” to which Paul refers, are the prospective heirs of that heavenly Kingdom with Christ. “The things on the earth” will be its earthly subjects. Jesus pointed out to his disciples that the sacred secret had to do with the Kingdom when he said to them: “To you the sacred secret of the kingdom of God has been given.”—Mr 4:11.

Includes the Congregation. ...
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The Sacred Secret of Godly Devotion. Paul wrote to Timothy: “I am writing you these things, . . . that you may know how you ought to conduct yourself in God’s household, which is the congregation of the living God, a pillar and support of the truth. Indeed, the sacred secret of this godly devotion is admittedly great: ‘He [Jesus Christ] was made manifest in flesh, was declared righteous in spirit, appeared to angels, was preached about among nations, was believed upon in the world, was received up in glory.’”—1Ti 3:14-16.

“The congregation of the living God” had the truth, and it knew accurately the mystery, or “the sacred secret,” of true godly devotion, and the congregation had not only the form but also the power of such godly devotion. (Contrast 2Ti 3:5.) Hence, it could be the “pillar and support of the truth” in the midst of a world of error and false religion, the ‘mysteries’ sacred to Satan and those he has blinded. (2Co 4:4) Jesus Christ himself is the One whose godly devotion was foretold and described in the inspired Hebrew Scriptures. For centuries, ever since the challenge was launched against God’s sovereignty, with the integrity of man being brought into question, it was a mystery, or “sacred secret,” whether complete, unswerving, unblemished godly devotion could be fully maintained by anyone upon whom the Devil would bring pressure. Who, if anyone, would be able to hold up under the test and come through wholly clean, without sin, and untarnished in exclusive devotion to Jehovah? Related to this was the question concerning who would be the ‘seed of the woman’ that would bruise the Serpent’s head. This would be fully revealed when Christ “was made manifest in flesh, was declared righteous in spirit, appeared to angels, was preached about among nations, was believed upon in the world, was received up in glory.” (1Ti 3:16; 6:16) This was admittedly a great thing. The great question of godly devotion centered around the one person, Jesus Christ. What greatness there was to Christ’s course of godly devotion! How it benefits mankind and exalts Jehovah’s name!—See GODLY DEVOTION.

Comes to a Finish. In the apostle John’s vision, he was told: “In the days of the sounding of the seventh angel, when he is about to blow his trumpet, the sacred secret of God according to the good news which he declared to his own slaves the prophets is indeed brought to a finish.” (Re 10:7) This finishing of the sacred secret is closely connected with the seventh angel’s blowing of his trumpet, upon the blowing of which the announcement is made in heaven: “The kingdom of the world did become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he will rule as king forever and ever.” (Re 11:15) Accordingly, the sacred secret of God is finished at the time that Jehovah begins his Kingdom by means of his Messiah, or Christ. Jesus Christ spoke much to his disciples, God’s “slaves,” about the Kingdom of God and said that the “good news of the kingdom” would continue to be preached right up to the end (Gr., teʹlos) of “the system of things.” After ‘the sacred secret of God is brought to a finish,’ the “good news” to be preached would therefore include what the voices in heaven announced: “The kingdom of the world did become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ.”—Mt 24:3, 14.

For the ‘mystery of lawlessness’ (2Th 2:7), see MAN OF LAWLESSNESS. For “Mystery: ‘Babylon the Great’” (Re 17:5), see BABYLON THE GREAT.



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