Nicotine consumption falls as schizophrenia increases

a reply to: rickymouse

I smoke my tobacco from a bong, with lots of water,,, filters give me a sore throat,

I wonder how bad it is for me, it does not feel bad.. who knows.

Thoughts?

Edit, Manitou is my choice.

a reply to: rickymouse

I wasn't aware of the immunity connection, but I do know nitric oxide is involved in fine muscle control. It serves as both a hormone and a neurotransmitter. That explains the calming effect it has as well as its reported effect on easing digestion (after-dinner smoke?).

The nitric oxide cycle is extremely complex; I only hit the high points earlier. Either acetylcholine or nicotine can activate nicotinic receptors, which release synthase. Synthase then catalyses arginine into citrullene. Citrullene is converted back into arginine via the urea cycle, and the process repeats. Citrullene, incidentally, is found in foods such as watermelon, explaining why eating a lot of watermelon causes heavy urination. That is the kidneys converting it to arginine. From what I have observed, the body attempts to strike a balance between the two; if citrullene increases relative to arginine stores, the kidneys convert it (assuming enough water is present).

Waste disposal actually seems to be a byproduct of the process rather than the primary purpose.

Now the crazy part: when we encounter stress, be it physical or mental (the body makes no distinction), our adrenal glands release stress hormones: epinephrens, norepinephrine, cortisol, adrenaline. These have a different muscular action control pathway. They produce more energy from the muscles faster than nitric oxide pathways, but they also stop the action of the synthase, dropping nitric oxide levels. Our muscles operate harder, but with less fine control and less efficiently. In an emergency situation, this is an appropriate response to either fight or flee danger, but in modern society, not so much.

In an emergency, one exercises the muscles in response to the immediate danger, using up the stress hormones and returning synthase action quickly, but today we are under mental stress constantly and have a more sedentary lifestyle. Thus, we have increased our stress hormone levels on a constant basis as well as have limited the use of them. Nitric oxide is more difficult to produce because the stress hormones constantly block the synthase action. Continual stress also affects the metabolic pathways, causing the body to store and retain energy in the form of fat... there's our obesity issue.

I believe heavy smokers like myself have some sort of deficiency in the nitric oxide pathways, quite possibly a stress management issue. The excess nicotine is being used to increase synthase levels in order to overcome the stress hormones. It may be that something in the emotional center of the brain is feeding back on high stress hormone levels, increasing them abnormally. I do know I am extremely sensitive to beta-blockers, which operate by interrupting the action pathways of stress hormones (betas) on the muscles. A recent bout of low-dose Metroprolol caused me to literally lose all drive, all ambition, all desire to even move. It also decreased my smoking drastically, leading me to believe it interrupted that feedback loop I mentioned. Metroprolol does not stop the production of stress hormones; it only stops their action on the body. When I stopped the drug, I was so agitated I was in a rage for a few days, unable to control myself. I was also smoking upwards of three packs a day for those few days.

Incidentally, all beta-blockers (pretty much anything that ends with 'lol') operate the same way.

I have more info, but I want to hear your input... so I'll stop for now.

TheRedneck

a reply to: Bedlam

Actually, no, I haven't. I have been reading up on the process, and it does look messy.

Of course, while growing tobacco is legal, selling, gifting, or distributing it is NOT. I will only be growing enough for my needs. As best as I can tell from my reading, that is 10 plants per year (8 burley, two mild for the right blend). I figure I will start with double that for certainty and adjust down.

I do have a barn in good shape that is not being used, and plenty of garden space. One concern: I have read that deer can also become hooked on tobacco, and are almost impossible to keep away from the plants if that happens.

I also have plans to build a solar curing kiln. I want that process as natural as possible.

Any exact info on the process is greatly appreciated.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

That was a very good post. I knew most of that but there were a few pathways responses to the nitrogen chemistry that I learned about in the post. I study way more broadform so I do not get to concentrate on just one issue like this. So I do have missing knowledge in the complete processes of specific chemistries some time. I am always going back to a subject to learn more as I discover interactions with other things in our diets. My goal is to try to figure out how everything reacts and be able to evaluate things.

I had problems with beta blockers, after a while they made me dumb. I have taken five or six different kinds over the last forty years, quitting them all within a year because of side effects. What you are saying makes sense about them. I will have to study the interaction with synthase some more to possibly understand more precisely how to increase it in people who do not smoke or for those who want to cut the amount they smoke down.

I smoke about a pack a day but only smoke half the cigarette. I have problems in the OTC pathways according to my genetics so I need to help the conversion of caffeine to ammonia in the blood a bit. Otherwise the coffee makes me hyper and nervous and sometimes shakey. But without the coffee at all, I can't quickly interpret things. I have many red snps in the methylation pathway. I am a slow methylator so need to consume chemistry to balance the methyl cycles. But I need to smoke to balance that. So what I do is smoke when I drink coffee or drink alcohol more than other times. I will have a cigarette after eating some types of food but I do not always get a craving for it.

I was given beta blockers for my tachychardia, upon reviewing my medical stuff one time over many many years I discovered I would get bronchitis only in the times I was taking beta blockers. We have all our doctors stuff and pharmacutical info going back to eighty six. I noticed the coincidence and with talking to a doctor about it here on ATS I found it was common to get lung issues with beta blockers. I then researched it and sure enough he was correct.

Tobacco use interferes with medicines, it can make some of their treatments go off whack. Tobacco induces some enzymes and processes and restricts others. I see why the medical industry does not like tobacco, they have more side effect potential. They slam grapefruit too on tv, making it look like we shouldn't eat it. The thing is grapefruit is very useful for fixing things in our bodies if you eat it when you crave it at the right time. If everyone gave up grapefruit there would be a lot more sick people. Grapefruit is really good for some people if they do not take medicines. Other people can't eat grapefruit, it makes them worse feeling because they have different enzyme amounts they make. Those people usually do not like grapefruit.

I don't take any medications regularly anymore, I had too much problem with them taking them on a regular basis long term gave me serious problems. The reason showed up in my genetics for most of the anti-epileptic medicine types. I learned to control my Temporal Lobe Epilepsy, TLE, with diet and it works good, but I can't cure it. Also increasing energy and adrenaline production by working can cause me to get messed up and I can't think right, I was actually having way more problems with this when on medicines though, I would get blackouts of consciousness when on some of the meds. I could still do the stuff but my ability to control the intended path was severely depressed on the meds, my short term memory went to ziltch. I do way better using diet and tobacco use is part of my treatment to keep things moderated.

I highly doubt if I could work a job anymore because my lifetime hypoglycemia kind of interacts negatively with my diet changes for controlling the TLE. I try to run more of a ketone diet and that causes low sugar some times so I have to make sure to have access to a small amount of sugar all the time, just like a diabetic person on meds does. Too much tobacco can also trigger the head spins for me, it is actually a hypoglycemic issue caused by the body dumping too much chemistry at one time to change to burning fat from sugars. I get those usually after drinking a big glass of juice or when I eat nitrites a lot or just eating a lot of sweets. A couple hours later I start to get a little dizzy, I eat a little sweets and I am fine. The Pharmacist told me to eat more protein.

a reply to: rickymouse

I'm learning a lot from you as well.

I also crave caffeine. I tend to carry a Mountain Dew around with me constantly and sip it. I need to look more into that area. I really don't like medical, but I have had to study some aspects to deal with family illnesses. And of course, when I found links to smoking, knowing how much of a difference it makes for me, curiosity got the best of me.

Just forgive me if I get some of the terminology wrong; medical likes to use overly big words.

I have always said I kept myself in a delicate balance between caffeine and nicotine. From what you say, it sounds like that might be more accurate than I thought.

I read a study some years back that investigated the nicotine levels of various smokers. It showed that there is a huge difference between heavy smokers and light, or occasional, smokers. Heavy smokers tend to maintain a consistent blood nicotine level, smoking less when it rises and more when it falls. Occasional smokers have erratic levels, ranging from high to non-existent levels. The assumption, which I think sounds logical, is that there is a biological need for nicotine in some people, while others have no such need and use tobacco purely recreationally. And of course, there are those who fall in between the two extremes.

Grapefruit juice: I recently had a congestive heart attack (100% blockage in my left ascending? cartiac artery) and was put on Lipitor for cholesterol (triglycerides were 528... was actually told in the hospital that my smoking was unrelated, although they wanted me to quit). That was the reason for the Metoprolol. Anyway, as I was researching interactions, I found the warnings against grapefruit juice. I love grapefruit juice! The warnings were not that it stopped the Lipitor from working, but that it made the Lipitor work too well and put too much load on the liver.

I have a strong liver, so I started drinking grapefruit juice, about 8 ounces a day offset from the Lipitor. At the same time, I watched for any signs of liver issues. I did that for 4 weeks and felt better than I had in a while.

WARNING: I AM NOT GIVING MEDICAL ADVISE! DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME! Liver damage is serious, and a weak liver can easily be overloaded this way.

Hypoglycemia: I have a mild history of that, but it is not due to insulin. It is actually due to forgetting to eat (I have a minor issue with knowing when I am hungry). It can be fixed temporarily with, believe it or not, salt. I carry restaurant salt packets in my car, so if the shaking starts, I eat some salt and get some food as soon as I can. A pharmacist suggested that connection some years ago, and for me it works.

I still find it amazing just how much medical research doesn't know. We have so much knowledge, but at the same time we have restricted it so much... research outside 'accepted' practices is simply taboo.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

The mountain dew connection:

When you drink coffee, some people cannot break down or utilize the chemistry right, so having some active nicotinic acid or nicotine in the blood can make it turn into Ammonia in the blood. ammonia is a natural part of everyone's blood. If the levels get high, our body responds by converting it to Uric acid, which has uses in small amounts in our body at the proper time. If you do not have enough of the enzyme to convert it, the Ammonia can cause some problems, a moderate amount is good, too high is not good. A way of forcing this conversion is done by consuming benzoic acid foods or sodium benzoate. Mountain dew contains sodium benzoate, sodium benzoate is also a medicine used to treat this condition. An alternative to the mountain dew would be cinnamon. It is high in a predecessor of benzoic acid and is easily converted in the body.

So now you drank the mountain dew, who's sugar also causes you to retain sodium in the kidneys. Glucose helps us retain sodium. Sodium regulates insulation production also, too little sodium in the body increases insulin too high and too much insulin can result in a destruction of organs.

So if you are lucky enough to be blessed with gout problems, you need something to trigger you to pee out the excess uric acid. You can take a diuretic medication or just drink some coffee or even alcohol. They all trigger urination. So those with gout can benefit by interupting any one of these cycles I just talked about to moderate their flareups. Too much cinnamon toast in the morning can aggrevate gout if you do not drink enough coffee with it.

If a person cannot make enough enzymes there are ways to fix things, I found all this out by studying the medicines chemistries themselves and how they worked. I try to sidesway use the information I find to try to find natural small changes people can make to better regulate things.

So many people have negative attitudes to sodas, They call these chemicals in them bad, but they can also be medicines if you consume them when needed. I get beezoars, I cannot break down fiber well because of a lack of enough amylase. So if I drink a sixteen bottle of coke when my poop starts looking like straw, it disolves the fiber. It is the phosphoric acid in the coke. I learned that this happens about once every three weeks and I learned not to eat too much fiber. Those little critters in my colon are building homes out of all that fiber I think. I had some problems with blockages, deciding five years ago to give up sodas was a mistake. I learned the hard way that I need some of this. I don't think Mountain Dew has phosphoric acid so it wouldn't work for that.

I watched Dr. Oz one day and they had the thirty second cracker test. The wife and I both tried this. It took me over forty five seconds the first time and over a minute the second and third times for the change to occur. I already knew I had a low amylase problem, this test actually showed it is pretty severe. I could never eat a lot of breads. My father used to say that if you eat too much bread you will get impacted like a cow, meaning this is something he and maybe even his parents had a problem with. Here is a link to the test, I was skeptical at first, but from four of us taking it, I know it seems to match our metabolism on this issue.

www.dr-oz-reviews.net...

The change is quick once it starts and there is a big difference when it occurs.

Maybe it won't work for everyone, people who make too much get that taste immediately, my oldest daughter who somehow wound up opposite of me, makes too much amylase. She gets a crappy sweet taste almost right away from the cracker and there is no change. She loves sugar, she says she is a honey bee. But she does not like the taste that comes from eating crackers and bread so much.

Sorry for getting off topic with my posts OP. But everything is related. Using nicotine as a medicine means you need companion chemistry some times.

Read this science report. www.sciencedaily.com...

a reply to: rickymouse

That explains a lot!

I do have a gastrointestinal anomaly, a misshapen stomach. It is essentially little more than a wide spot in my esophagus, without the normals bends and folds. It was discovered in my early 20s using an upper GI test, when another doctor used his gut (pun maybe intended?) to diagnose me with an ulcer and schedule me for surgery. I'm glad I got the second opinion. I had no ulcer.

Anyway, my body has apparently adjusted. My stomach acidity is very high because food doesn't stay there long. I have learned to schedule my eating to minimize the excessive gas that results from this, and thankfully I apparently burned out the esophageal nerves so I no longer feel the heartburn. Somehow the Dew seems to calm it some. Nothing else works as well; even the generics only come close.

Most sodas were originally developed as folk medicines, promising to sooth digestion issues. After some time, they realized they were more profitable if sold as a pleasure drink. Pepsi was named after peptic acid; Dr. Pepper was a capsaicin-based digestive tonic.

The link between salt and hypoglycemia makes perfect sense. The pancreas responds to excess salt, which should be an indicator of insufficient insulin. So taking salt temporarily activated my pancreas to produce excess insulin to use what little glucose I had left until I could get more. Thank you for explaining that!

I may also be using the high sugar content to compensate for the digestion issues.

Whatever I have been doing, subconsciously or no, it seems to be working. I went to a class reunion 7 years ago... 30th. Everyone was old. I had to help them onto the flatbed. Some had walkers... and some were already dead. During the parade, they talked about what medicines they had to take and how many doctors they had seen lately.

I had nothing to add, because I didn't see any doctors regularly and took no medicines. I was also one of the only two who were able to go get some more hay before the parade started. The other guy lives within a mile of me, out in the country like I do. I'm old, yeah, things hurt, yeah, I'm slower than when I was 25, yeah... but I can still do everything I once could do. It just takes longer and hurts more.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: anonentity
Interesting article published by Nature as they think they have found out why Schizophrenics, have a bad addiction to smoking, they were self medicating all along. considering that borderline Schizophrenics with their tobacco habit would remain unnoticed. Withdraw smoking from general use and more would be diagnosed which may well be the case. More Psychotic meds would be sold and big Pharma would be happy. Since Monsanto is now a big Pharma, and were at the front of the anti smoking legislation, the pattern fits. Like it or hate it the prestigious journal is a good source of news. www.nature.com... Nicotine has always been known to slow the progression of Alzheimer's does big Pharma just want the franchise on this tool?

Well that explains it and makes complete sense, good OP Thank you.

(( no it doesn't! Yes it Does! No yes no yes )) Inhaling Deeply

a reply to: TheRedneck

Salt moderates the pancreas. I should have said that. It helps the pancreas to work properly, it can balance the insulin. Too much insulin makes you constipated. You can either take salt to balance it and relieve constipation or just drink some sugar water so the insulin gets used. Many constipation medicines are based on that.

Now with you making too much stomach acid, HCL is in stomach acid, Chloride is a part of that. Too much chloride can raise the acid higher. You may have some issue with a shortage of some digestive enzymes and the acid increases. Some foods and beverages also cause the stimulation of stomach acid.

I have low stomach acid, I need to take some digestive enzymes if I eat a big steak or a lot of food in a meal. I don't need them often but a couple of times a month I do.

a reply to: rickymouse

Speaking from a systems analysis (my forte) point of view, there seems to be some sort of feedback between acidity level and digestive efficiency to control acid production. Mine stays high continuously, and everything works better because of that. So it's really a non-issue for me.

I do know that nicotine drastically reduces any pain associated with it. I am assuming it's due to an increase in nitric oxide and the resulting increase in fine motor control effectancy. If I try to eat a big meal without a smoke directly afterwards, I will likely be in some appreciable pain within the hour. Vaping also helps, and I keep an e-cig handy just in case I need it (loaded with the high-octane mixture). I just prefer an actual cigarette, and typically only vape when I cannot get to one.

I also am not very big on placing excessive faith in technology. A cured, shredded leaf wrapped in paper and burned is much more dependable than a hand-held vaporizer filled with a controlled chemical concoction.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

I tried vaping, the stuff did not do what I want it to do. It doesn't seem to be the same at all. My daughter bought some vape's and an assortment of different kinds, she just went back to smoking regular cigarettes again. I keep telling her to get a tube machine, they pay themselves off in one carton of cigarettes. I am talking about the big one, They have light and menthol pipe tobacco along with the regular and gold types. It comes out to cost about ten bucks a carton of cigarettes.

a reply to: rickymouse

I tried one of the big machines once. It started breaking after 6 months and was unusable after a year. The $6 sliders last just as long and produce just as good cigarettes as the $60 fancy things. Once you're used to them, they're just as fast. I can roll a smoke a minute if I concentrate, but I usually just casually roll them while relaxing watching TV. I don't need to sit at a table, just have a small cardboard box to hold the tobacco and serve as a catch-bin.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: rickymouse

I tried one of the big machines once. It started breaking after 6 months and was unusable after a year. The $6 sliders last just as long and produce just as good cigarettes as the $60 fancy things. Once you're used to them, they're just as fast. I can roll a smoke a minute if I concentrate, but I usually just casually roll them while relaxing watching TV. I don't need to sit at a table, just have a small cardboard box to hold the tobacco and serve as a catch-bin.

TheRedneck

I am on my second tops machine, the first one lasted me around seven years. The other plastic one I had bought originally was a little faster, but it had constant plastic parts I needed to put into it. The old Tops machine still works but I wore out the part that slides and compacts, the ram, and it doesn't clean cut the tobacco anymore. I learned not to overfill it now.

The Tops machine lasted for about forty thousand cigarettes before it started acting up. A little rubber cap that holds the cigarette from falling off gives me the biggest problem, tobacco residue builds up and the cigarette comes off before filling completely. It takes half a minute to pop it off and wipe the tobacco stuck on it off or I just spin it and press it back on the post. I paid about thirty seven plus tax on that locally, less than forty bucks.

I can roll eighteen cigarettes in less than five minutes. If the tobacco is perfectly moist, I can do them in around three minutes.

a reply to: rickymouse

I've had one plastic slider break and another wear out in 7 years. That's roughly 25,000 cigarettes per $6 machine. I'm happy.



TheRedneck

originally posted by: new_here
a reply to: Reverbs

I quit smoking (American Spirits) 5 months ago. I only smoked about 10 a day. I have a bunch of nicorette gum left over. I wonder if I should chew it for the benefits, as a medicine. Hmmm.

I quit two years ago.

Super proud you quit as well.

I don't think putting nicotine in your body is the way to go.

With only 5 months or even two years we were addicts.

I just think if I liked it and probably would.

It could lead back to the hardest habit I ever had to break.

a reply to: Reverbs
Do you notice getting a cognitive enhancement from exercise? I used to notice that. Although I'm not sure if derived from getting up and being active or if it was from shifting focus to other things. Either way, sitting down in one place for more than an hour or two definitely increases mental fog.

Not only is our body being outmoded but our mind too. it's a sort of sad, but children in the future will have no memory of this. It's prob ably better that way. There're many things in the past we probably don't want to remember, or--more accurately--don't have any need to remember.

EDIT: Sigh. Rationality may replace morality. Statistical models and algorithms may replace intuition in most avenues of life.

For research, here's a start:
www.goodreads.com - The Undoing Project: A Friendship That Changed Our Minds ...
discovermagazine.com - The Vexing Mental Tug-of-War Called Morality...

It's a systematic dismantling of the human body and mind to be reassembled in future times for the survival of our kind.

I'll have to read this whole thread tomorrow when I have some time, looks like people brought a lot of meat to the table.

I have gone back and forth between smoking and not, and the strange thing is that when I don't smoke, I have asthma. I have to be on medication all the time for it.

When I smoke, I have no problem.

I know this sounds false, and I don't even tell people about that because they laugh at the assertion, but it really is true.
I actually started smoking again (after having quit a year ago) a few weeks ago precisely because my asthma was so bad I couldn't stand it. It was making me panicky while trying to work, feeling like I couldn't get enough air.
It just sounds like an excuse, but I guess with my doctor, we can look at the periods my asthma flared up, and see how they correlate to the periods I have been a non-smoker.

a reply to: Bluesma


It was well known thirty years ago if you went to the doc for asthma he would say," start smoking if you feel an attack coming on". Another solancia herb " Stramonium" cones were burnt and inhaled to stop really bad attacks dead in its tracks. But big pharma cant get a patent on them. So they disappear from the shelf's. Mind you if you eat the cones you go on a trip that last about a week. But inhaling the fumes is ok.

originally posted by: Bluesma
I'll have to read this whole thread tomorrow when I have some time, looks like people brought a lot of meat to the table.

I have gone back and forth between smoking and not, and the strange thing is that when I don't smoke, I have asthma. I have to be on medication all the time for it.

When I smoke, I have no problem.

I know this sounds false, and I don't even tell people about that because they laugh at the assertion, but it really is true.
I actually started smoking again (after having quit a year ago) a few weeks ago precisely because my asthma was so bad I couldn't stand it. It was making me panicky while trying to work, feeling like I couldn't get enough air.
It just sounds like an excuse, but I guess with my doctor, we can look at the periods my asthma flared up, and see how they correlate to the periods I have been a non-smoker.

I didn't smoke till I was over thirty. When I started smoking, the constant cough I had most of my life disappeared for some reason. I would have a hard time breathing when I smelled perfumes and after shave and stuff like that before I started too, but I don't have that problem when I smoke. I don't know why the change either. Before I started smoking I was at the doctors many times for the cough, they tested me for TB two different times.

I still don't smoke that much. If I quit, I would have to quit coffee and stuff high in methyl like popcorn. Lots of veggies have methyl in them too, I can eat more veggies when I smoke. I can't eat bananas either way, that is a different problem I have.