Is there a dumbing down of music

There is still good music being produced but what I mean is music that deviates from classical order.

Classical/architectural order
en.m.wikipedia.org...

Architectural Orders are the ancient styles of classical architecture, each distinguished by its proportions and characteristic profiles and details, and most readily recognizable by the type of column employed.

Three ancient orders of architecture—the Doric, Ionic, and Corinthian—originated in Greece. To these the Romans added, in practice if not in name, the Tuscan, which they made simpler than Doric, and the Composite, which was more ornamental than the Corinthian.

The Architectural Order of a classical building is akin to the mode or key of classical music, the grammar or rhetoric of a written composition. It is established by certain modules like the intervals of music, and it raises certain expectations in an audience attuned to its language. - Wikipedia[2]

Listen to these songs that are based on classical order and compare them to some of the modern trends being put on the market.

Adagio in Sol minor


Symphony of the Night OST - Prayer


Now compare them to the latest "hits."

Skrillex


That is not music. That is garbage. There seems to not only be a decay in musical talent but even moral degradation with a lot of the latest acts.

There is still good music in the world but much of it really isn't music despite being popular. A lot of it is disharmonious and chaotic which shouldn't be pleasant to the ear.

Did you ust compare skillrex to some stupid symphony? Why are you even comparing classical music to pop?I like classical but it is just sridiculous to compare the two

originally posted by: supermilkman
There is still good music being produced but what I mean is music that deviates from classical order.

There is still good music in the world but much of it really isn't music, despite being popular. A lot of is disharmonious and chaotic which shouldn't be pleasant to the ear.

I think that your title is wrong it is not a question of music dumbing down. It is merely that popular music has changed. Classical music was actually the pop music of its time. Opera was simply the MTV acts or Rock Operas of modern times. The ancient waltzes were a damn sight more lascivious than the modern pallid versions. Nowadays we are producing by far more acts that have the benefit of classical music education. It is unreasonable to assume tastes to stagnate why produce the music of the past?

Miles Davis, Chick Corea and Herbie Hancock all acknowledged the debt they owe to the classical masters.

a reply to: FelisOrion

This guy probably prefers out of control chimps screaming in stereo to actual music.

originally posted by: FelisOrion
Did you ust compare skillrex to some stupid symphony? Why are you even comparing classical music to pop?I like classical but it is just sridiculous to compare the two

That's the point. Music that deviates from classical order is dumbed down. Classical order is sophisticated while other music is just relying on sound effects, computer editing software etc.

originally posted by: Tiger5

originally posted by: supermilkman
There is still good music being produced but what I mean is music that deviates from classical order.

There is still good music in the world but much of it really isn't music, despite being popular. A lot of is disharmonious and chaotic which shouldn't be pleasant to the ear.

I think that your title is wrong it is not a question of music dumbing down. It is merely that popular music has changed. Classical music was actually the pop music of its time. Opera was simply the MTV acts or Rock Operas of modern times. The ancient waltzes were a damn sight more lascivious than the modern pallid versions. Nowadays we are producing by far more acts that have the benefit of classical music education. It is unreasonable to assume tastes to stagnate why produce the music of the past?

Miles Davis, Chick Corea and Herbie Hancock all acknowledged the debt they owe to the classical masters.

You're right. I guess the question should be "Is music that strays away from classic order less sophisticated?"

a reply to: Tiger5

While we're at it, maybe classical architecture is better designed than a lot of our contemporary architecture?

a reply to: supermilkman

That's the point. Music that deviates from classical order is dumbed down. Classical order is sophisticated while other music is just relying on sound effects, computer editing software etc.

Classical is a whole other genre, of course there are classics.

a reply to: supermilkman

Actually, if you look into the history of musicality in prehistory, you learn that one of the first instruments were percussive, certain rocks being bashed against one another would issue certain tones according to their size and density. After that, it is said that bashing logs with sticks, and eventually the elephant skin drum came about. Some cultures which existed back in the mists of time had nothing but drums and vocal utterances to make their music with, and this was the case for quite a long time.

It could be argued, and probably should be, that some forms of modern music are closer to prehistoric log thumping, skin smacking, and so on, than classical music is, and therefore closer to the origin point of all musicality, than the very complicated, highly finessed music of the classical and baroque periods.

Now, that being said, I prefer the carefully modulated, finely crafted works of Ludwig Van Beethoven, or J.S. Bach to the techno tribalism of Skrillex and Co., but that does not mean that their particular style has no meaning or merit, just that it is not to my taste. Given that it resembles most closely the most ancient of all forms of music, we cannot discard it utterly. We can only say that we do not like it, that we prefer the pretense of civilisation over the obvious tribalism inherent in some modern music.

For my part, I am a metalhead. I like music which combines these things in harmony with one another. The rampant percussion of a Dimmu Borgir track is fused in all cases with a neoclassical element, a nod to the composers we know and love from the period of outlandish wigs, gaudy outfits, and corsets so tight as to render the lady wearer unconscious. Therefore it provides a synergistic outcome, ignoring nothing, encompassing everything, for a well rounded and often beautiful finish.

a reply to: supermilkman

There is still some really good music out there. Just take a look at tool, many symphonies around the world turn their music into orchestra because its that damn good and well put together. They have a song where the lyrical syllables and the musical beat follows the Fibonacci code.

The good music may not be in the mainstream but its out there.

a reply to: intrptr

Classical order is a style of music based on keys, intervals, modes etc. The music ultimately tells a story, like an epic.

It doesn't have to be just classical musicians like Beethoven, even modern acts like John Williams and their orchestras are based on classical order.

John Williams symphony

a reply to: supermilkman

Even Yngwie Malmsteen's music is based on classical order. In fact he was influenced by classical musicians like Paganini.

a reply to: supermilkman

Music speaks to the soul. No two souls are identical. It stands to reason that tastes in music will differ.

I happen to be a huge fan of classical music...string quartets in particular. But certain electronic music is appealing, too.

Different strokes for different folks. Doesn't mean dumbed down. It means it's different.

You don't like it, that's fine, many do, however, like skyrillix (or however it's spelled).

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: supermilkman

Actually, if you look into the history of musicality in prehistory, you learn that one of the first instruments were percussive, certain rocks being bashed against one another would issue certain tones according to their size and density. After that, it is said that bashing logs with sticks, and eventually the elephant skin drum came about. Some cultures which existed back in the mists of time had nothing but drums and vocal utterances to make their music with, and this was the case for quite a long time.

It could be argued, and probably should be, that some forms of modern music are closer to prehistoric log thumping, skin smacking, and so on, than classical music is, and therefore closer to the origin point of all musicality, than the very complicated, highly finessed music of the classical and baroque periods.

Now, that being said, I prefer the carefully modulated, finely crafted works of Ludwig Van Beethoven, or J.S. Bach to the techno tribalism of Skrillex and Co., but that does not mean that their particular style has no meaning or merit, just that it is not to my taste. Given that it resembles most closely the most ancient of all forms of music, we cannot discard it utterly. We can only say that we do not like it, that we prefer the pretense of civilisation over the obvious tribalism inherent in some modern music.

For my part, I am a metalhead. I like music which combines these things in harmony with one another. The rampant percussion of a Dimmu Borgir track is fused in all cases with a neoclassical element, a nod to the composers we know and love from the period of outlandish wigs, gaudy outfits, and corsets so tight as to render the lady wearer unconscious. Therefore it provides a synergistic outcome, ignoring nothing, encompassing everything, for a well rounded and often beautiful finish.

I totally agree. I have nothing to argue with what you said.

a reply to: NwoDedispU

I just told you that I like classical music; so why would that thought enter your brain? And furthermore, why would your brain allow your fingers to type those words in that specific order?

a reply to: TrueBrit

However metal music can be overrated too. A lot of your metal musicians just play power chords and chug on the E string. There using a lot of post-processing effects to make them sound better. That's not really talented.



Sure if you like it then more power to you I guess but I still think classical order music is sophisticated.

Metal heads chugging on power chords come a dime a dozen and are not impressive. They also come off devilish.

I didnt even respond to you how could I??
This must be the OP'S ALTER EGO talking eh? haha. Take your persona and shove it. Use one trigger at a time tiger.

originally posted by: hephalump
a reply to: supermilkman

Music speaks to the soul. No two souls are identical. It stands to reason that tastes in music will differ.

I happen to be a huge fan of classical music...string quartets in particular. But certain electronic music is appealing, too.

Different strokes for different folks. Doesn't mean dumbed down. It means it's different.

You don't like it, that's fine, many do, however, like skyrillix (or however it's spelled).

Yes, musical is spiritual. I find darker, forboding music makes people come off dark as well. Uplifting and pleasant music makes people happier.

There was a Rolling Stone magazine article that said people who grew up listening to the Beatles were rated more peaceful than people who listened to other forms of music.

So if the music is peaceful, the person will probably be too.

I like some electronic/trance for running on the treadmill. I like atmosphere when I'm relaxing.

Here are a few good tracks.

Cern the Message (good for running)


Motorcycle As the Rush Comes (good for relaxing, driving)


Airfire - No Signs of Life (good for running)


Mirror's Edge OST (this is more atmospheric music, good to relax too)


So yeah I'm not saying modern music is bad, there is plenty of good new stuff no doubt about it.

a reply to: supermilkman

It depends on the type of metal you are thinking of.

There are bands which are there to rip your face off and stamp on it, which has its uses for those moments when you cannot even formulate a sentence, such is your rage or pain or sorrow. But for those moments when what you want is epic, soaring melody, crushing rhythms, mind bending solos and heroic composition, metal has a band or a tune for that too.