If Russia did hack us and affect the election.......

originally posted by: darkbake
a reply to: network dude

I don't think we should redo the election. However, if Russia was using Wikileaks to leak files they hacked in order to sway the election towards Donald Trump, it would be important for national security to investigate this. I do agree that if there was nothing to hide, there would be nothing to release through Wikileaks.

And there you go.

To think that Russia isn't currently spying on us, and we aren't currently spying on them, is laughable. And to think that anything on the internet isn't stored in a file on a server out west, it silly. You don't have to be a government insider to grasp these facts. So when I hear the Russians may have hacked the DNC and upon releasing the nasty things they did, it helped Trump win, I am not angry at the Russians for hacking (if they even did), I am appalled at the way the DNC does business. It's not a left -right thing. If the RNC had e-mails come out showing they did crooked # like this, I'd be disgusted with them. Hell, I think most of us are disgusted with them over the way they did this election, and they didn't even get caught like the other side did.

It's frustrating to see otherwise intelligent people be so blatantly stupid.

a reply to: Anonopolis

www.nytimes.com...

I never stated he admitted to it, just that he did ask for such, during the campaign. The link shows the video of him doing such.

I do believe that there are ties between Trump and Putin. One does not hold business in Russia without the consent of the Russian government, and if it is something that would be say televised all around the world, there is a good chance that Putin was involved in such. And Trump did run a beauty contest in Russia, and Putin was the person at the top. There is also allegations of business dealings that should be looked at. Too many questions and suspicions there not to investigate, and when more intelligence agencies are coming out and stating that yes Russia did hack the election, perhaps it is time to not only open the investigation, but also to put out the evidence where people can see such and not keep it classified.

There was a letter sent to the White House before the election. The White House did not release it, or any suspicions as not to sway the election. Now that the election is over, this information is now being released.

a reply to: Krakatoa

So why is there not a call to investigate Colin Powell or Rice about their use of a non government email server? The rules were clear at the time, and there was no rule until after Clinton left the post. And funny how now that she lost the election and is not seeking governmental position, that now they are closing the investigation and are no longer investigating this.

originally posted by: Painterz
So if the Russians hacked the Dems, they almost certainly hacked the Reps too.

They released the Dem stuff, sinking them. And sat on the Republican intel.

... so what are they going to do with the Republican dirt?

Wait until Trump is president and release it to wreck them?

Or blackmail?

They didn't hack the Republicans because they weren't using private non-secure servers.

originally posted by: TerryMcGuire

originally posted by: Alien Abduct

originally posted by: TerryMcGuire
Two things.

One it is not so much the MSM that are pressing this issue.Last night on late night news, I saw a number of prominent Republicans speaking up with great concern on this issue. And yes, it was 'reported' on MSM

As Indigent points out the information was one sided. One of the tactics of propaganda is omission.

I missed the part of your post that presented evidence it was Russia that did the hacking. In relation to the OP your post is moot.

Actually, to me the OP did not ask for evidence for or against Russia or whoever is being accused at the mement. You could help me understand your reply if you could point out where he did.

Well let's see. The TITLE of the OP has to do with Russia being alleged as the culprit for the DNC email hacks.

Many democrats and and MSM outlets are claiming that it is Russia that is to blame for the hacks.

I think a bit of evidence is in order, would you disagree?

a reply to: Alien Abduct

OP title.
If Russia did hack us and affect the election.......

Yes. Russia is mentioned. Then OP says

I hear the MSM trying to get everyone upset over this. They are trying to "Wake us up" and show that we were manipulated and the ruskies stole this election.

But what exactly did they present to us in this "hack"? Was it a bunch of partisan rhetoric? Lies? Trickery?

Or was it something much more sinister? Like verifiable facts?

It seems whomever is responsible for the release of this information is guilty as hell. Guilty of spreading facts that you weren't supposed to see. Guilty of lifting the veil and showing you that behind those beautiful eyes, is a hideously ugly face.

This in no way changes anything with regards to relationships with any other countries including Russia, but it does put this attack into perspective.

Nowhere does OP ask for proof of anything, nor I might add does he offer any himself. You called my point 'moot' because I did not offer proof, when OP did not ask for any.

a reply to: TerryMcGuire

I never said the OP is asking for evidence of Russian involvement .

I...am asking for evidence of Russian involvement, with regards to the Title and OP and in light of this current situation where so many people and groups are alleging Russia's involvement in the DNC hacks.

Bare in mind that it was Obama, rabid Democrat, who made an open mike gentleman's agreement with Putin so it makes no sense to say Russia hacked our election to help Trump. You want to say they hacked in to help the Democrat candidate and it backfired ...that's believable.

originally posted by: Alien Abduct

originally posted by: TerryMcGuire

originally posted by: Alien Abduct

originally posted by: TerryMcGuire
Two things.

One it is not so much the MSM that are pressing this issue.Last night on late night news, I saw a number of prominent Republicans speaking up with great concern on this issue. And yes, it was 'reported' on MSM

As Indigent points out the information was one sided. One of the tactics of propaganda is omission.

I missed the part of your post that presented evidence it was Russia that did the hacking. In relation to the OP your post is moot.

Actually, to me the OP did not ask for evidence for or against Russia or whoever is being accused at the mement. You could help me understand your reply if you could point out where he did.

Well let's see. The TITLE of the OP has to do with Russia being alleged as the culprit for the DNC email hacks.

Many democrats and and MSM outlets are claiming that it is Russia that is to blame for the hacks.

I think a bit of evidence is in order, would you disagree?

Actually, I feel it's irrelevant who did the hacking. This stuff goes on daily, hell, hourly. What seems to be missing here is the part about what actually was released, and how did it effect the outcome of the election. If the answer to that is that facts were revealed that show the DNC was corrupt and voters decided they had enough of being manipulated, I'm having a hard time understanding the crime.

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: Alien Abduct

originally posted by: TerryMcGuire

originally posted by: Alien Abduct

originally posted by: TerryMcGuire
Two things.

One it is not so much the MSM that are pressing this issue.Last night on late night news, I saw a number of prominent Republicans speaking up with great concern on this issue. And yes, it was 'reported' on MSM

As Indigent points out the information was one sided. One of the tactics of propaganda is omission.

I missed the part of your post that presented evidence it was Russia that did the hacking. In relation to the OP your post is moot.

Actually, to me the OP did not ask for evidence for or against Russia or whoever is being accused at the mement. You could help me understand your reply if you could point out where he did.

Well let's see. The TITLE of the OP has to do with Russia being alleged as the culprit for the DNC email hacks.

Many democrats and and MSM outlets are claiming that it is Russia that is to blame for the hacks.

I think a bit of evidence is in order, would you disagree?

Actually, I feel it's irrelevant who did the hacking. This stuff goes on daily, hell, hourly. What seems to be missing here is the part about what actually was released, and how did it effect the outcome of the election. If the answer to that is that facts were revealed that show the DNC was corrupt and voters decided they had enough of being manipulated, I'm having a hard time understanding the crime.

Well the breach of security is a concern. You can't be like, "well as long as they released information that I consider will or did have a positive effect then it's not a crime".

We should consider the actual breach of security that took place also and not just focus on the content and ignore the breach.

I agree with you, the information released had an overall positive effect on the world, but the breach itself is a concern.

I also would find it disturbing if Russia was found to be responsible for the breach of security, however even more disturbing is Hillary's failure to take measures to secure her emails.

Also, as some people have pointed out, the information released was a bit one sided which in of itself reeks of propaganda.

So with all this being said and knowing the implications of the possibility of a country like Russia being responsible for this, it is EXTREMELY important we have some credible evidence before we go pointing fingers.

a reply to: Alien Abduct

Evidence. OK. You are asking me for evidence of Russian involvement in the hack. Clearly I could cite what I heard from the media that the CIA says they have high probability of Russian involvement. And then you and anyone else can refute that by condemning the CIA as a partisan political group, supporting Clinton. And then where are we?

My point was this. Network Dude said 'he heard' that msm was pressing the Russia angle on the hacks. He then went on to say he thinks that msm was feeding us propaganda to down-play the legitimacy of those hacks, believing what the hacks brought to light to be the truth, and therefore it matters not 'who' was responsible for them, because they are true.

But true as they might be, were they 'all' the truth? .While OP was in complete 'speculation mode', making suppositions on msm's motive for their claim of Russian ( if) involvement, my point was not 'who' was behind the hacks, but rather that the hacks could easily serve as their own propaganda owing to the fact that one of the chief tricks of propaganda is the trick of offering up damaging information that 'is' true while withholding other information that is just as true about the other side of the political equation.

You then called that addition to the thread moot in light of not offering proof of Russian involvement. I say it was not as 'proof' of who was responsible was not part of the op allegations, only that msm was alleging it was Russian based on the CIA reports.

The idea the Russkies hacked and altered the election is just moronic. I mean it just makes absolutely no sense and insults us as americans that they'd think we'd buy this crap.

The idea of people from another country affecting the outcome of a US election is disturbing to say the least. It seems the democrats are of the opinion that Russia hacked the DNC and the subsequent release of information caused them to lose the election. I think Russia had a very indirect, if any, influence on the outcome of the election.

However, that is not to say that people from another country did not have a direct influence on the election. The illegal aliens in the US voted in this election in many states. The people of another country had a direct influence on the election. In Texas there were taco trucks in the streets of every major city registering voters! Taco trucks! Along with registering illegal aliens as voters they provided information on how to avoid the state voter ID law and vote with nothing more than a utility bill.

So, yes, the people from another country did influence the election in some way. Just not the way the democrats would have you believe.

originally posted by: network dude
Of those e-mails that were released, which ones were not factual?

Is that a clear enough question?

And for a bonus to re-iterate my point, it doesn't make a rats ass of a difference WHO leaked it, what matters is WHAT was leaked, unless of course the leaked info was false, which you were given a chance to refute.

This is the sort of conversation that deserves to be addressed seriously and with respect.

I am happy the documents were released. I am for public disclosure of political information, regardless of whatever party is getting the receiving end of the stick.

However!

Keep in mind that voting fraud is defined to be anything that causes the outcome of a vote to not reflect the truthful will of the voters; or that aims to encourage a voter to make a choice on a ballot that would have been different if not for having been manipulated with incomplete or bad information.

This is where things get shady. The leaks were used to deflect away from Trump's and the other 3rd party candidates shortcomings by getting left-leaning voters to in-fight over Bernie not getting the nomination due to insider ball at the DNC and the shadiness of various arrangements between the Clinton Foundation and the State Department. None of which were provably executed in bad faith, illegal, or even corrupt in any sense of the word.

Regardless, stories found in the leaks, like HSBC donating 80 million USD to the foundation and then days later negotiating with Secretary Clinton about the penalty they had to pay for abusive mortgage practices, makes me and millions of other Americans who bothered to keep up with the news, more than just a little angry.

Again, nothing provably shows this was done in bad faith, but it looks suspicious. And that's all that was needed to keep attention off Gary Johnson's craziness, Stein's arrests, and Trump's sexual predations, numerous business failings, abuses of the tax code, along with his shady dealings with companies tied to the mob in and outside of the United States.

To be clear this isn't a question of the validity of the content on Wikileaks. A number of the emails have signature information attached which allows for verification of the sending servers, timestamp, and email header information. This conclusively shows many are authentic.

However, this misses the point. The documents were released to distract and mislead the public specifically for another candidate's benefit. How many documents were also deleted or removed to create a false narrative? To what extent do people have any understanding of what it is they are reading?

Many of the online discussions here on ATS are about absolute nonsense related to these emails.* True unfettered garbage that wouldn't even be published in The Sun or The Dailymail. I can give you hundreds if not thousands of examples if you like. The problem has gotten so bad at this point that media watchdogs are now calling out Facebook for not filtering flagrantly bullsh*t "news" stories.

NPR (2016-11-11): Zuckerberg Denies Fake News On Facebook Had Impact On The Election

The election process was corrupted with a tsunami of BS and by Russia drumming up fear:

AFP (2016-10-10): Gorbachev warns of 'dangerous point' as US-Russia ties sour

And the American public playing right into that fear:

Positive Effect of Trump Victory: Putin Just Opened the Door Again

There has been rampant computer fraud during this election cycle.

ShadowBrokers: Message #5

This is electronic voting fraud, no getting around it.

en.wikipedia.org...

originally posted by: Indigent
Only half the truth, the republican part was missing.

Prove it! Maybe there simply wasn't anything worth leaking? You know very well that that is a viable an option as yours.

Trump NEVER asked Russia to perform any hacking. That reference was to a joke where Trump basically said "Maybe Russia can provide us with Clinton's emails". But I'll tell you want...I WILL ASK FOR RUSSIA TO CONTINUE HACKING US! If there is corruption that is indisputable, I want to know. I don't care what it is or where it is but if our "employees" are running the asylum, I want to know so we can fire the lot of them.

Oh...thats right. We've already begun. But we've ONLY just begun.

a reply to: Alien Abduct

I personally would be more concerned about an internal leak, than a Russian hack. Hackers are working 24-7 all over the world to do things as simple as sending spam, to blackmailing Police departments and making them pay ransom for their data. So the concern isn't that a hack occurred, it's that a hack was allowed to occur due to security protocol being misused or not used at all. This is just my opinion, so I take full responsibility for it.

None of what was released has been flagged for being false, just inconvenient. And if facts and truth, however they came to light, swayed the vote, then so be it. If it happened to the RNC, I promise you the right would be complaining, but there ins't much you can do about it.

If another election was to take place, would everyone forget how #ty the DNC is? I doubt it. In fact, I'd like to see another one, just to watch Trump win, and the MSM explode into tears again. (I really enjoyed that)


TerryMcGuire:
if any released e-mails were false, I agree that it's a tactic to undermine the election process and would be a bad thing. But since there has been a lot of time passing since the initial leak, and NOBODY has made ANY claims of false data, but instead verified the integrity of the messages through electronic means, I feel like that point is mute. (Again, IMHO)

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: Alien Abduct

I personally would be more concerned about an internal leak, than a Russian hack. Hackers are working 24-7 all over the world to do things as simple as sending spam, to blackmailing Police departments and making them pay ransom for their data. So the concern isn't that a hack occurred, it's that a hack was allowed to occur due to security protocol being misused or not used at all. This is just my opinion, so I take full responsibility for it.

None of what was released has been flagged for being false, just inconvenient. And if facts and truth, however they came to light, swayed the vote, then so be it. If it happened to the RNC, I promise you the right would be complaining, but there ins't much you can do about it.

If another election was to take place, would everyone forget how #ty the DNC is? I doubt it. In fact, I'd like to see another one, just to watch Trump win, and the MSM explode into tears again. (I really enjoyed that)


TerryMcGuire:
if any released e-mails were false, I agree that it's a tactic to undermine the election process and would be a bad thing. But since there has been a lot of time passing since the initial leak, and NOBODY has made ANY claims of false data, but instead verified the integrity of the messages through electronic means, I feel like that point is mute. (Again, IMHO)

I just don't want to downplay the importance of knowing who hacked us and why and understanding the implications of the reasoning behind such an attack.

As you can gather from my last post I find Hilary's (and other portions of our government's) lack of effort to take proper security measures against these types of attacks are more disturbing than the actual hackers doing their bidding.

I agree, governments are going to hack each other and even rogue hackers are going to do what they do best 24-7, so first and foremost we should take proper security measures to prevent these attacks.

I also agree that now that the cat is out of the bag and I see what the cat actually is, it makes me not give two flying ducks about where the hell that cat came from.