Disturbing Line In The National Anthem I wished I Didn't Know About:

a reply to: pteridine

Ah, so the British captured their own people in an a form of surprise conscription.

Correct. That is precisely the meaning of impressment.

Wikipedia is also quite enlightening on the question of the impressment of Americans by the Royal Navy:

The great majority of men pressed were taken from merchant ships at sea, especially those homeward bound for Britain. This was legal as long as the Navy replaced the man they took, and many Naval captains would take the best seamen, replacing them with malcontents and landsmen from their own ship. It was also common for "trusted" volunteers to act as substitutes; they would then desert as soon as the merchant ship docked, and return to their Navy ship.

While non-British subjects were not impressed, Britain did not recognize naturalised American citizenship, and treated anyone born a British subject as still "British" — as a result, the Royal Navy impressed over 9,000 sailors who claimed to be American citizens.

My emphasis.

I am actually a student of human behavior.

You make yourself sound like a Peeping Tom.

originally posted by: Astyanax
a reply to: pteridine

Ah, so the British captured their own people in an a form of surprise conscription.

Correct. That is precisely the meaning of impressment.

Wikipedia is also quite enlightening on the question of the impressment of Americans by the Royal Navy:

The great majority of men pressed were taken from merchant ships at sea, especially those homeward bound for Britain. This was legal as long as the Navy replaced the man they took, and many Naval captains would take the best seamen, replacing them with malcontents and landsmen from their own ship. It was also common for "trusted" volunteers to act as substitutes; they would then desert as soon as the merchant ship docked, and return to their Navy ship.

While non-British subjects were not impressed, Britain did not recognize naturalised American citizenship, and treated anyone born a British subject as still "British" — as a result, the Royal Navy impressed over 9,000 sailors who claimed to be American citizens.

My emphasis.

I am actually a student of human behavior.

You make yourself sound like a Peeping Tom.

As Britain did not recognize naturalized American citizens, it is likely that they did impress Americans, giving legitimacy to the claim. Their real gripe was American trade with France so blockades and boardings were also among the list of causes for the war which became moot after the defeat of Napoleon. The British brought it on themselves, didn't they? Alas, they underestimated the ex-colonials and ended up losing, once again.

Take heart that the Canadians stood fast and repelled the American attempts to liberate them from the wastrel Prince Regent George IV while George III was bat-crap crazy and non-functional. The Canadians are stalwarts, indeed, and are much admired in the US, according to my contacts.

My name is not Tom so I would have to be a peeping Pteridine. I must have accurately assessed you to garner such a response.

a reply to: pteridine

The British brought it on themselves, didn't they? Alas, they underestimated the ex-colonials and ended up losing, once again

Where did you learn that Britain lost the War of 1812 ?

Never seen that in any History Book. Please direct me.

a reply to: alldaylong

LOL, everyone thinks they won. Or, at least laid claim to "victory". So if you ask Americans, we will say we "won" (despite not gaining any of Canada, and losing out on any change in maritime policy).

If you ask British, they will only know that they burned down the White House. Outside of that, its not really notable in Britain.

originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: pteridine

The British brought it on themselves, didn't they? Alas, they underestimated the ex-colonials and ended up losing, once again

Where did you learn that Britain lost the War of 1812 ?

Never seen that in any History Book. Please direct me.

OK, call it a draw.

originally posted by: pteridine

originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: pteridine

The British brought it on themselves, didn't they? Alas, they underestimated the ex-colonials and ended up losing, once again

Where did you learn that Britain lost the War of 1812 ?

Never seen that in any History Book. Please direct me.

OK, call it a draw.

What it's actually called is " Status quo ante bellum "

a reply to: Astyanax

I'm sorry, but what gets lambasted in this modern era as "xenophobia" is purely the natural instinct to preserve and defend your home, family, and lifestyle. There is nothing inherently wrong or hateful about it as "hate" is a purely human concept yet we see territorialism in every animal on the planet.

originally posted by: alldaylong

originally posted by: pteridine

originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: pteridine

The British brought it on themselves, didn't they? Alas, they underestimated the ex-colonials and ended up losing, once again

Where did you learn that Britain lost the War of 1812 ?

Never seen that in any History Book. Please direct me.

OK, call it a draw.

What it's actually called is " Status quo ante bellum "

As in medicine, things sound much better in Latin.

Semper ubi sub ubi.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

There are natural instincts, and natural instincts.

Morality consists in knowing which ones to promote and which ones to suppress. Xenophobia is an appropriate response for hunter-gatherers engaged in a zero-sum contest for resources. Not for civilized people.

a reply to: Astyanax

The civilized people argument is bullcrap until we reach a point where all people on Earth are civilized. Most of the xenophobia is directed at those seriously lacking in that department.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

The civilized people argument is bullcrap until we reach a point where all people on Earth are civilized.

Oh, so you think you’re civilized and others are not.

Can you provide some evidence of this, please?

a reply to: Astyanax

"Civilized people" was an impetus for the British Empire to do untold terrible things to people across the globe.

For what thats worth.

But I think it may point to civilized people being pretty darned subjective when viewed through the lens of cultural ego.

a reply to: Astyanax

I'd argue any society which stones women for being rape victims, practices institutional execution of gays, permits child brides, believes raping another will cure you from AIDS, lacks any concept of individual rights, or believes their leader to be a living embodiment of their god is pretty close to the textbook definition of uncivilized savage.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

I'd argue any society which stones women for being rape victims, practices institutional execution of gays, permits child brides, believes raping another will cure you from AIDS, lacks any concept of individual rights, or believes their leader to be a living embodiment of their god is pretty close to the textbook definition of uncivilized savage.

What about a culture that can’t keep its children safe from gun-toting lunatics in school? That has a police force which hunts down and kills unarmed men for being the wrong skin colour? That murders foreign citizens, soi-disant terrorists, in their own homes without anything resembling a trial, and calls it justice? That spies on its own people day in and day out?

What about a society where drug abuse is rampant in every class of society, where parents abandon their children while they shoot up and nod out in their cars? A society where people can’t stay married long enough to attend their children’s Kindergarten graduation as a couple? Where children have no respect for their elders and their elders have no respect for the social contract?

What kind of civilized society is that?

You judge another culture by the standards of your own and call it uncivilized. Well, two can play at that game.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

"Civilized people" was an impetus for the British Empire to do untold terrible things to people across the globe.

Not so much. The British Empire was largely acquired for profit. La mission civilatrice was a French line.

I’m well aware of the terrible things the British did. I’m sure you haven’t forgotten that I am the citizen of a former British colony, born only a few years after it became independent. I know the history of the British occupation of my own country and quite a bit about the history of the rest of the empire. From the South African concentration camps to the Australian penal colonies, from the pirates of the Caribbean to the Amritsar Massacre, I know the items on the charge-sheet well.

You may have missed my point, though, because I am pretty sure you’d agree with me if you had caught it. Xenophobia is not for civilized people because, historically, civilization has been about drawing the circle of inclusion ever wider. It may not be obvious to those who don’t actually make a close study of the past, but that process has been ongoing ever since the start of the Agricultural Revolution. European imperialism — even the appalling mediaeval version practised by the Portuguese and the Spanish — was very much a part of it.

By the way, speaking of the British, you must understand that the Founding Fathers of the USA, and those who fought in the Revolutionary War, earlier thought of themselves as transplanted Englishmen. One of the good things that came out of the British Empire was the United States of America. It wasn’t the best thing, though; that was the abolition of slavery and slave-trading throughout the British Empire in 1832.

I think it may point to civilized people being pretty darned subjective when viewed through the lens of cultural ego.

Indeed. That was the gist of my reply to Captain Amerika here.

a reply to: Astyanax

...well, it looks to me like maybe humanity isn't that civilized after all. So we are back to my assertation that xenophobia is a normal and acceptable position to take. We aren't some enlightened, advanced sci-fi civilization and we do live in a world of zero sums, thus: build the goddamn wall, wave the goddamn flag, and ignore anyone who has a problem with it.

a reply to: Astyanax

Still rather live in my "civilised" culture were I don’t have to worry about starvation or dying of some jungle disease or if I survive that dying at the ripe old age of 50.

Still rather live in my "civilised" culture which despite its crime, its still only a fraction of what it is in Africa.

Still rather live in my "civilised" culture were My kids are entitled to a education.

Still rather live in my "civilised" culture were some militant group wont kidnap me.

Hell there are African tribes that bath in freaking cow Urine! HAHAHAHAHAHA
Give me western civilisation any day.


All races are created equal but some cultures are far more superior than others!

This is a civilised person



This is a barbarian.

a reply to: Spider879

You should never judge a man that lived in the 1700's, by today's standards. Not to mention, I believe that was in reference to British kidnapping us.

a reply to: crazyewok

Yeah you have no fking idea why that Surma female defaced herself like her ancestors did, it was a way to make her less attractive to slave hunters and traders for sale , the problem is it stucked.
And do you know why some tribes bathed in urine and burn cow dung?? urine is ammonia a cleansing agent , burning cow dung is used to keep testi flies away that harmed cattle the main stay of their economy,but you bring up cattle poke with a way of life mostly unchanged with the exception of the Kalashnikov the preferred weapon of choice, yet you ignore urban African civilizations ancient or modern comparable to anywhere else in the world I wonder why.

a reply to: crazyewok

Still rather live in my "civilised" culture were I don’t have to worry about starvation or doing of some jungle disease or if I survive that dying at the ripe old age of 50.

Where in the world today do people, on average, die at age 50? In your dreams?

Still rather live in my "civilised" culture which despite its crime, its still only a fraction of what it is in Africa.

Then go and live in North Korea, where there isn't any crime at all.

Still rather live in my "civilised" culture were some militant group wont kidnap me.

But where some gun-toting neighbour who doesn't like your looks blows your face off. Where serial killers abduct, rape and murder your daughters. And where, in fact, militants are forever bombing shopping malls and shooting up fast-food outlets. Yes, nice and civilized.

All races are created equal but some cultures are far more superior than others!

By the standards of which culture?

Oh, and the photos? Only the truly confused mistake fashion for culture.

Pathetic post, cuddly furry alien man. Raise your game. A civilized person should do better. And a civilized Westerner should know better than to misquote Orwell in such a way as to prove him right. That's a fail so big, it's breathtaking.