Disturbing Line In The National Anthem I wished I Didn't Know About:

a reply to: Spider879

Are we to nick picking and becoming like those that are trying to find excuses to ban the second amendment because is open to interpretation, now with the national anthem?

Really, people, really, what in the heck is going on now in this nation, America have to be broken apart and by nick pick in order to have the road open for foreign influences to dictate policies to benefit agendas.

originally posted by: Astyanax
a reply to: crazyewok

Of course it’s BS. As if anybody would press-gang the enemy to serve in their navies. The British weren’t suicidal fools.

However, the word ‘slave’ in that context doesn’t mean ‘human chattel’, it means 'evildoer without a sense of honour’.

You might consider occasionally reading something about history before making such statements.
"The United States declared war for several reasons, including ... the impressment of as many as 10,000 American merchant sailors into the Royal Navy" en.wikipedia.org...

originally posted by: Spider879

originally posted by: crazyewok
a reply to: Astyanax

Here is the thing.

White people dont whinge about white slavery and use it as excuse for failure in life.

The Black community does use it as a excuse for crime, poverty and general failure in life even though billions upon billions has been piled into the community througy welfare and social programs.

No we don't, we believe that the past have baring on the present and left unresolved will have a baring on the future ,non of this came out of thin air, there is a direct unbroken line from the institution of Slavery to the aborted reconstruction era which would have made all the difference to the implementation of Jim Crow right up to the 60ts and major push back by folks who want to relive the bad old days.
Black ppl would rather not be reminded of that painful past, except some folks denied it's cause and effects, but worst , any workable solution they would view as freebee...like the 40 acres and a mule.

Unresolved my arse.

You are free, all the slaves are now long dead and the black community has received hundreds of billions if not trillions in welfare and social programs.

What more do you want?!

originally posted by: Astyanax
a reply to: thinline

What a thin little excuse that is.

Look: patriotism and xenophobia are essentially the same attitude in different clothes. All national anthems are racist, even the ones that sound innocuous. People sing them while they march off to kill other races.

You do understand that "The Star-Spangled Banner" was written during the War of 1812, right? A war where we were fighting the British...a bunch of white guys...right? Read up a little on the war--I know it's a Wikipedia link, but it'll get you started.

War of 1812

The United States declared war for several reasons, including trade restrictions brought about by the British war with France, the impressment of as many as 10,000 American merchant sailors into the Royal Navy, British support for Native American tribes fighting European American settlers on the frontier, outrage over insults to national honor during the Chesapeake–Leopard Affair, and American interest in expanding the United States farther west.

So, while the entirety of the war may not have been focused on the impressment of American merchant sailors, it's not a "flimsy excuse" to cite that as the reason for the inclusion of that line in the song...did you even click the link that Thinline provided?

The Star Spangled Banner lyrics "...and slave" is a direct reference to the British practice of Impressment (kidnapping American seamen and forcing them into service on British man-of war ships). This was a Important cause of the War of 1812

a reply to: thinline

your so wrong it's hilarious...it's ACTUALLY from the British practice of hiring poor people and recruiting escaped slaves from America and making them free men if they fought on the British side. Because having to defend your land from an American invasion/ land grab from across the pond is probably a pain in the rear...so the Americans were fighting against British army AND black people that escaped and joined the British army in order to be free hence the verse "No refuge could save the hireling and slave " ... get it now???

en.wikipedia.org...(War_of_1812)

a reply to: Spider879

so now because it wasnt directly about blacks and other form of slavery, do you think its less 'disturbing'?

a reply to: pteridine

You might consider occasionally reading something about history before making such statements.
"The United States declared war for several reasons, including ... the impressment of as many as 10,000 American merchant sailors into the Royal Navy" en.wikipedia.org...

But if that were true then why would be include a battle cry in our national anthem that nothing will save them from our wrath... if the song was truly sung about impressed men then wouldn't we want to set them free not say that "No refuge could save the hireling and slave"

originally posted by: smkymcnugget420
a reply to: pteridine

You might consider occasionally reading something about history before making such statements.
"The United States declared war for several reasons, including ... the impressment of as many as 10,000 American merchant sailors into the Royal Navy" en.wikipedia.org...

But if that were true then why would be include a battle cry in our national anthem that nothing will save them from our wrath... if the song was truly sung about impressed men then wouldn't we want to set them free not say that "No refuge could save the hireling and slave"

Are you quibbling about the number, which seems high, or the fact that US merchantmen were impressed into the British Navy? The book referred to in the Wikipedia reference is J. C. A. Stagg (2012). The War of 1812: Conflict for a Continent. p. 128.
Note that you used the same Wikipedia reference in your response to Thinline. Are you cherry picking?

a reply to: crazyewok

Nonsense. Lines like "the rockets' red glare", "the bombs burtsting in air", "twilight's last gleaming", "Whose broad stripes and bright stars through the perilous fight", "as it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses" and so on can be viewed with artistic license and/or taken in context. But, but, but....the one line that mentions the word "slave" MUST be taken literally with no regard for artistic license and/or context.

Now to mention the article. I believe the writers used the phrase from the national anthem as an inspiration to parrot their views. I don't buy that the lyrics of the Star Spangled Banner are referring to the institution of slavery. It would be out of context if nothing else. The lyrics are about the bombardment of Fort McHenry during the war of 1812.

Also for your viewing pleasure go lookup the definition of the word "slave". You will see that it means more than just slave.

I am loving see 2 points being championed here:

- Nationalism IS the same as racism. There is no tangible difference in believing you are superior for skin color than believing you are superior for geography. They are both simply pride in a birthright. The key "sin" being pride.

- Slavery is the bane of humanity, and no one race holds the patent on it.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Spider879

And can you prove that slaves in those days were only and always black and that blacks were only and always slaves? Did the nation have them? Yes, was it a common part of the culture in certain parts of the country? Also, yes. But indentured servitude was still a cultural practice in the new world meaning that people of all colors and creeds were held in bondage during those days. The practice if indentured servitude did not start widely dieing out until around that time period and it wasn't actually outlawed in the Americas until 1917.

And my husband points out that there is also a certain word sung in a lot of rap songs that no one repeats in polite company. Does that mean that everyone referenced by those rap songs is one of those things described by that word?

Well couple of things, looking at this guys's life and work apart from the anthem lead me to believe he is talking about Blacks and if he is including down trodden white near slaves, doesn't make it better, plus in the context of the U.S slave and Black are usually the same.

originally posted by: odzeandennz
a reply to: Spider879

so now because it wasn't directly about blacks and other form of slavery, do you think its less 'disturbing'?

One I do think it's directly about blacks and no it's no less disturbing.

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: Spider879

originally posted by: crazyewok
a reply to: Astyanax

Here is the thing.

White people dont whinge about white slavery and use it as excuse for failure in life.

The Black community does use it as a excuse for crime, poverty and general failure in life even though billions upon billions has been piled into the community througy welfare and social programs.

No we don't, we believe that the past have baring on the present and left unresolved will have a baring on the future ,non of this came out of thin air, there is a direct unbroken line from the institution of Slavery to the aborted reconstruction era which would have made all the difference to the implementation of Jim Crow right up to the 60ts and major push back by folks who want to relive the bad old days.
Black ppl would rather not be reminded of that painful past, except some folks denied it's cause and effects, but worst , any workable solution they would view as freebee...like the 40 acres and a mule.

Unresolved my arse.

You are free, all the slaves are now long dead and the black community has received hundreds of billions if not trillions in welfare and social programs.

What more do you want?!

Yes unresolved your arse , dead millions of blacks leave behind millions of living descendants, that went through Jim Crow and Im not talking about drinking from no damn water fountain or taking a sht were you want,but more financially crippling stuff such as redlining and zoning laws, hiring banking education etc that created ghettos and the culture it spawned for better or worst. ..even when some took action action to resolve it, a lot of ppl loose their sht.

a reply to: Spider879


Life sucks people die.

It happened .

You cant change the bloody past.

Blacks have there freedom. There are no jim crow laws now.

Only people keeping blacks down now are themselves.


Honestly what the hell more do you want? A tax on white people to pay for some stupid reparations?

a reply to: crazyewok

Well....something that addresses the simple disconnect in logic of providing subsidized housing for poor families....and moving them into the same isolated ghettos as felons and sex offenders....that would be a good start.

The issue is that no matter how brilliant you are, if you are isolated in a ghetto, no one will ever know. There is no mobility to people without an ability to create a network. Sure, a few "make it out". But that isn't going to create a system where people feel there is equity.

I am as exasperated as anyone at the race issue. But there isn't a solution in ignoring or demeaning arguments. The only solution is to make everyone feel that the system is worthy of support. Get that ball rolling, and riots and hatred for the establishment will stop.

BTW, for any who don't know: both sides of the race issue will, separately, acknowledge that they share the exact same enemy: the government. Yet the government somehow keeps the 2 sides against each other. When folks put all THAT together, things will change.

originally posted by: crazyewok
a reply to: Spider879


Life sucks people die.

It happened .

You cant change the bloody past.

Blacks have there freedom. There are no jim crow laws now.

Only people keeping blacks down now are themselves.


Honestly what the hell more do you want? A tax on white people to pay for some stupid reparations?

Yeah as expected that's your problem solving answer..k

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

And who pays for that?

Plus provideing crappy houseing to the poor is not a race issue but a issue for the poor in general.

originally posted by: Spider879

originally posted by: crazyewok
a reply to: Spider879


Life sucks people die.

It happened .

You cant change the bloody past.

Blacks have there freedom. There are no jim crow laws now.

Only people keeping blacks down now are themselves.


Honestly what the hell more do you want? A tax on white people to pay for some stupid reparations?

Yeah as expected that's your problem solving answer..k

Well come on what would you do?


What magic awmser do you have?

All we really need to do. Is shutdown the government for 1 day. Change the Name of the Country to "The Democratic United States of North America" and we can rid ourselves of all our old history. Various Countries have done it, one example is: We do not associate what the USSR did with Modern Russia.
If we change the name we can all go, oh that was the Old Country, this is the new one. We are so unlike "The United States of America", they killed indians, and slavery, and imperialism, and etc. All we have done is argue about who can use which bathroom, Today is a great day for the DUSNA.

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: Spider879

originally posted by: crazyewok
a reply to: Spider879


Life sucks people die.

It happened .

You cant change the bloody past.

Blacks have there freedom. There are no jim crow laws now.

Only people keeping blacks down now are themselves.


Honestly what the hell more do you want? A tax on white people to pay for some stupid reparations?

Yeah as expected that's your problem solving answer..k

Well come on what would you do?


What magic awmser do you have?

A truly concerted effort at community development through investments in education and infrastructure, take what works such as Urban Prep and multiply that times X, green jobs take urban farming and promote it , like what's being done in some places in California that were food deserts. there is much more bright ideas out there that can be built from the bottom up instead of top heavy solutions.. the problems many will see such as giving preferential treatment and push back will be a thing.