You have been lied to : Christians , Muslims , Jews - all worship the same God

a reply to: nomad4chr1st

So are we saying that the Jews did not worship God before
Jesus came along?

If so, the bible would disagree with you, a more accurate time line is that Jews worship God, and then, That same God sent an aspect of himself to earth to deliver a other chapter of gods message through his son.

Can we agree on this?

If we can agree on this, they why can we not speculate that Muslims also worship that same God (who they claim themselves to worship) (Muslims and Jews originate from the same areas) but just haven't grasped the complete message of the second coming....

Speculating on the second point, in no way says anything about a Christian's relationship with Jesus or Jesus's relationship with God.

a reply to: fatkid

In my original post I stated that I believe Jews serve the same God, or at least God the Father. Obviously they don't acknowledge Jesus as the Son of God unless they are Messianic.

I think the issue is that Islam does not in fact believe this to be true. Some places in the Quran say Jews and Christians are good and follow the same God or something to that effect. Then a few verses later it is contradicted and we are the most detestable creatures on this earth.. See where that can get a bit ..err confusing?

I believe the Jews were God's chosen people. Much like present day Christians- the Pharisees and Sadducees adopted doctrines and that were not pleasing to God and/or became hypocrites. Paul actually used this against them during one of his trials to cause disturbance among them and he was rushed out for fear that he would be killed.

So Jesus was sent so to teach that God loves all of His creation- gentiles were grafted in if you will. Jesus said the healthy do not need doctors (paraphrasing sorry its late) which showed his intent to reach the lost and those who do not know Him. Jesus paved a way for all to come to repentance and inherit the Kingdom of God. I live in a tourist town with a lot of Israelis. When I meet one i make a big deal about them and tell them we are family. They meet so much hate and opposition you truly would not believe how it makes them feel. I believe the Jews will be restored and come to know the Father once again through Jesus Christ when re reveals himself in the second coming. I also have heard reports of many Muslims worldwide having visions of Jesus and and converting.

It is also important to understand, Islam is mostly taught and passed down through Hadith and oral tradition. So not all Muslims believe the same thing. Some are peaceful, but usually because they have not been taught of the violence that occurred int the Quran. Word studies reveal that Islam does not mean peace per say, but peace through surrender. So basically If you surrender, you will find peace.

So i must stand by my conviction that Allah is in no way the God of the Bible, although some may believe it. But I really don't think you will find a practicing Muslim who believes they serve the same God as an infidel.

originally posted by: Seede
a reply to: fatkid

Everything you typed is very poetic and wordy, but it doesn't change the fact that the God in the new and Old Testament are the same God.....

Jesus taught the same except that The Most High was not the Creator. ... and He did not create. So let us stop right there and see what...

Jesus really says or taught.

Jesus did not consider the Genesis account as just a story for uneducated people. When addressing well-educated religious leaders (the same types you take your information from), he said: “Did you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female?” (Matthew 19:3-5) Jesus then quoted the words about Adam and Eve recorded at Genesis 2:24.

Clearly, he was not talking about himself creating them. He's talking about someone else, "he who created them...". We all know who he was referring to, his Father and also his God.

John 20:17

17 Jesus said to her: “Stop clinging to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.’”

Note who Jesus views as his brothers, not his sons.

Son(s) of God: Insight, Volume 2:

The expression “Son of God” primarily identifies Christ Jesus. Others referred to as “son(s) of God” include intelligent spirit creatures produced by God, the man Adam before he sinned, and humans with whom God has dealt on the basis of covenant relationship.
...
“Sons of the True God.”
...
Angelic sons of God.
...
First Human Son and His Descendants.
...
“Israel Is My Son.”
...
Individual Israelite ‘sons.’
...
Loss of sonship.
...
Christian Sons of God. As John 1:11, 12 makes evident, only some of the nation of Israel, those showing faith in Christ Jesus, were granted “authority to become God’s children.” Christ’s ransom sacrifice brought this Jewish “remnant” (Ro 9:27; 11:5) out from under the Law covenant, which, though good and perfect, nevertheless condemned them as sinners, as slaves in the custody of sin; Christ thus freed them that they might “receive the adoption as sons” and become heirs through God.—Ga 4:1-7; compare Ga 3:19-26.

People of the nations, previously “without God in the world” (Eph 2:12), also became reconciled to God through faith in Christ and came into the relationship of sons.—Ro 9:8, 25, 26; Ga 3:26-29.

As did Israel, these Christians form a covenant people, being brought into the “new covenant” made valid by the application of Christ’s shed blood. (Lu 22:20; Heb 9:15) However, God deals individually with Christians in accepting them into this covenant. Because they hear the good news and exercise faith, they are called to be joint heirs with God’s Son (Ro 8:17; Heb 3:1), are “declared righteous” by God on the basis of their faith in the ransom (Ro 5:1, 2), and thus are ‘brought forth by the word of truth’ (Jas 1:18), being “born again” as baptized Christians, begotten or produced by God’s spirit as his sons, due to enjoy spirit life in the heavens (Joh 3:3; 1Pe 1:3, 4). They have received, not a spirit of slavery such as resulted from Adam’s trespass, but “a spirit of adoption as sons, by which spirit [they] cry out: ‘Abba, Father!’” the term “Abba” being an intimate and endearing form of address. (Ro 8:14-17; see ABBA; ADOPTION [A Christian significance].) Thanks to Christ’s superior mediatorship and priesthood and God’s undeserved kindness expressed through him, the sonship of these spirit-begotten Christians is a more intimate relationship with God than that enjoyed by fleshly Israel.—Heb 4:14-16; 7:19-25; 12:18-24.
...

Perhaps that's already too much info when my main point was Jesus referring to them as "my brothers", not "my sons". Just indicating that whatever you might want to say about the phrase "sons of God" is already covered on that link. I brought it up because of Jesus saying "my brothers".

a reply to: nomad4chr1st

You think Christians are gods chosen people, where is that in scripture?

The bible was written after Jesus death and was passed down orally for quiet some time,

The Old Testament takes place well before the invention of writing So it obviously has to be passed down orally or made up.

Not all Christians believe the same thing , there are atleast 100 different types of Christians (including Catholics).

The word Christianity doesn't mean peace either.

callingchristians.com...

It’s probably likely that you’ve associated the term “infidel” with Islam. However, the term “infidel” is a Catholic-Christian term, originating from the Latin language. It has no roots in Islam or Arabic terminology. Some have attempted to equate “infidel” with “kafir”, but these are two different terms, from two different languages that carry two different meanings. “Kafir” – كفر in the Arabic language means a “rejector” or “one who covers”. When used theologically in Arabic-Islamic literature, it refers to one who “rejects the truth of Islam”. The Islamic usage is clarified by Shaykh Abu Yusuf Riyad ul Haqq from the UK lower down in this article.

a reply to: fatkid
If you study the doctrines taught by Trinitarians regarding the doctrine of the Trinity you would know that most of them will argue that Jesus is not "the Father" (they even have a picture for that with a Trinity symbol, a triangle within a circle with phrases "is" and "is not").

I really hope one day you will stop referring to all the different dominations within Christendom(including Binitarians and Unitarians) as "Christianity". There is no duality concept of the father and son in true Christianity the way Trinitarians and Binitarians (and even some Unitarians, Modalists and so-called or self-professed "Jewish Christians" or "Messianic Jews") teach it.

None of their so-called worship towards the Father counts as true worship according to the bible and Jesus.

Christians Worship With Spirit and Truth:

“God is a Spirit, and those worshiping him must worship with spirit and truth.”—JOHN 4:24.

1. What kind of worship pleases God?

JEHOVAH’S only-begotten Son, Jesus Christ, left no doubt about worship that pleases his heavenly Father. While giving a heartwarming witness to a Samaritan woman at a well near the city of Sychar, Jesus said: “You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, because salvation originates with the Jews. Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshipers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for, indeed, the Father is looking for suchlike ones to worship him. God is a Spirit, and those worshiping him must worship with spirit and truth.” (John 4:22-24) How are we to understand those words?

2. On what did the Samaritans base their worship?

2 The Samaritans had false religious views. They accepted as inspired only the first five books of the Holy Scriptures—and these just in their own recension, called the Samaritan Pentateuch. Whereas the Samaritans did not really know God, the Jews had been entrusted with Scriptural knowledge. (Romans 3:1, 2) It was possible for faithful Jews and others to enjoy Jehovah’s favor. But what would this require of them?

3. What is required in order to worship God “with spirit and truth”?

3 To please Jehovah, what did Jews, Samaritans, and others of the past have to do? They had to worship him “with spirit and truth.” So must we. Although service to God must be spirited, or zealous, and motivated by a heart filled with love and faith, worshiping God with spirit especially requires that we have his holy spirit resting upon us and allow ourselves to be guided by it. Through study and application of God’s Word, our spirit, or mental disposition, must be attuned to his. (1 Corinthians 2:8-12) For our worship to be acceptable to Jehovah, it must also be rendered to him with truth. It must conform to what God’s Word, the Bible, reveals about him and his purposes.

Truth Can Be Found

4. How do some view truth?

4 Certain students of philosophy have developed the view that ultimate truth is not within the reach of mankind. In fact, Swedish author Alf Ahlberg wrote: “Many philosophical questions are of such a nature that it is not possible to give a definite answer to them.” Although some say that there is only relative truth, is that really so? Not according to Jesus Christ.

5. Why did Jesus come into the world?

5 Let us imagine ourselves as observers of the following scene: It is early in the year 33 C.E., and Jesus is standing before Roman Governor Pontius Pilate. Jesus tells Pilate: “For this I have come into the world, that I should bear witness to the truth.” Pilate asks: “What is truth?” But he does not wait for Jesus’ further comment.—John 18:36-38.

6. (a) How has “truth” been defined? (b) What commission did Jesus give his followers?

6 “Truth” has been defined as “the body of real things, events, and facts.” (Webster’s Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary) However, did Jesus bear witness to truth in general? No. He had specific truth in mind. He commissioned his followers to declare such truth, for he told them: “Make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you.” (Matthew 28:19, 20) Before the end of this system of things, Jesus’ genuine followers would declare “the truth of the good news” earth wide. (Galatians 2:14) This would be done in fulfillment of Jesus’ words: “This good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.” (Matthew 24:14) So it is vital that we identify those who are teaching all nations the truth by preaching the good news of the Kingdom.

How We Can Learn the Truth

7. How would you prove that Jehovah is the Source of truth?

7 Jehovah is the Source of spiritual truth. In fact, the psalmist David called Jehovah “the God of truth.” (Psalm 31:5; 43:3) Jesus acknowledged that his Father’s word is truth, and he also declared: “It is written in the Prophets, ‘And they will all be taught by Jehovah.’ Everyone that has heard from the Father and has learned comes to me.” (John 6:45; 17:17; Isaiah 54:13) Clearly, then, those searching for the truth must be taught by Jehovah, the Grand Instructor. (Isaiah 30:20, 21) Truth seekers need to acquire “the very knowledge of God.” (Proverbs 2:5) And Jehovah has lovingly taught or conveyed the truth in various ways.

8. In what ways has God taught or conveyed the truth?

8 For example, it was through angels that God transmitted the Law to the Israelites. (Galatians 3:19) In dreams, he promised blessings to the patriarchs Abraham and Jacob. (Genesis 15:12-16; 28:10-19) God even spoke from heaven, as when Jesus was baptized and these thrilling words were heard on earth: “This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved.” (Matthew 3:17) We can also be grateful that God conveyed the truth by inspiring the Bible writers. (2 Timothy 3:16, 17) By learning from God’s Word, then, we can have “faith in the truth.”—2 Thessalonians 2:13.

continued in next comment...pardon the length, but I want to be thorough on this subject. Showing that I'm not mereley throwing accusations out there as a bigot for those who may take offense to me using the phrase "does not count as true worship according to the bible and Jesus." Blame the bible and Jesus if you have issues with it, not me for just mentioning it.

a reply to: fatkid

The Truth About the Soul

16. What is the truth about the soul?

16 Because they believed what is said in the Scriptures, the first Christians taught the truth about the soul. They knew that “man came to be a living soul” when God created him. (Genesis 2:7) Moreover, they acknowledged that the human soul dies. (Ezekiel 18:4; James 5:20) They also knew that ‘the dead are conscious of nothing at all.’—Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10.

17. How would you explain the hope for the dead?

17 Yet, Jesus’ early disciples had the sure hope that the dead in God’s memory would be resurrected, or restored to life. That belief was well-expressed by Paul, who declared: “I have hope toward God . . . that there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous.” (Acts 24:15) Even at a later time, professed Christian Minucius Felix wrote: “Who is so stupid or senseless as to venture to maintain that man, originally formed by God, cannot be remade by him anew?” Like the first Christians, Jehovah’s Witnesses hold to the Scriptural truth about the human soul, death, and the resurrection. Let us now consider the identity of God and Christ.

The Truth and the Trinity

18, 19. Why can it be said that the Trinity is not a Scriptural teaching?

18 The early Christians did not view God, Christ, and the holy spirit as a Trinity. Says The Encyclopædia Britannica: “Neither the word Trinity nor the explicit doctrine appears in the New Testament, nor did Jesus and his followers intend to contradict the Shema [a Hebrew prayer] in the Old Testament: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord’ (Deut. 6:4).” Christians did not worship the Roman triad or any other gods. They accepted Jesus’ statement that Jehovah alone is to be worshiped. (Matthew 4:10) Moreover, they believed Christ’s words: “The Father is greater than I am.” (John 14:28) Witnesses of Jehovah hold the same views today.

19 Jesus’ early followers drew clear distinctions between God, Christ, and the holy spirit. In fact, they baptized disciples (1) in the name of the Father, (2) in the name of the Son, and (3) in the name of the holy spirit, not in the name of a Trinity. Jehovah’s Witnesses similarly teach Scriptural truth and therefore differentiate between God, his Son, and the holy spirit.—Matthew 28:19.

The Truth and Baptism

20. What knowledge is needed by baptismal candidates?

20 Jesus commissioned his followers to make disciples by teaching people the truth. To qualify for baptism, they need a basic knowledge of the Scriptures. For instance, they must acknowledge the position and authority of the Father and of his Son, Jesus Christ. (John 3:16) Baptismal candidates also need to understand that the holy spirit is not a person but is God’s active force.—Genesis 1:2, footnote.

21, 22. Why would you say that baptism is for believers?

21 The early Christians baptized only informed and repentant individuals unreservedly dedicated to God to do his will. Jews and proselytes who assembled in Jerusalem at Pentecost 33 C.E. already had a knowledge of the Hebrew Scriptures. Upon hearing the apostle Peter speak about Jesus the Messiah, about 3,000 “embraced his word heartily” and “were baptized.”—Acts 2:41; 3:19–4:4; 10:34-38.

22 Christian baptism is for believers. People in Samaria accepted the truth, and “when they believed Philip, who was declaring the good news of the kingdom of God and of the name of Jesus Christ, they proceeded to be baptized, both men and women.” (Acts 8:12) As a devout proselyte who had knowledge of Jehovah, the Ethiopian eunuch first accepted Philip’s statements about the fulfillment of Messianic prophecy, and then he got baptized. (Acts 8:34-36) Later, Peter told Cornelius and other Gentiles that “the man that fears [God] and works righteousness is acceptable to him” and that everyone putting faith in Jesus Christ receives forgiveness of sins. (Acts 10:35, 43; 11:18) All of this harmonizes with Jesus’ command to ‘make disciples, teaching them to observe all the things he had commanded.’ (Matthew 28:19, 20; Acts 1:8) Jehovah’s Witnesses hold to the same standard, accepting for baptism only those who have a basic knowledge of the Scriptures and who have made a dedication to God.

23, 24. What is the proper form of Christian baptism?

23 Total immersion in water is the proper form of baptism for believers. After Jesus was baptized in the Jordan River, he came “up out of the water.” (Mark 1:10) The Ethiopian eunuch was baptized in “a body of water.” He and Philip “went down into the water” and then came “up out of” it. (Acts 8:36-40) Scriptural association of baptism with symbolic burial also indicates complete submersion in water.—Romans 6:4-6; Colossians 2:12.

24 The Oxford Companion to the Bible says: “The descriptions of specific New Testament baptisms indicate that the person being baptized was dipped under the water.” According to the French work Larousse du XXe Siècle (Paris, 1928), “the first Christians received baptism by immersion everywhere where water was found.” And the book After Jesus—The Triumph of Christianity notes: “In its most basic form, [baptism] called for a confession of faith by the candidate, followed by complete immersion in water in the name of Jesus.”

25. What will be discussed in the following article?

25 The foregoing points regarding the Bible-based beliefs and practices of the first Christians are merely examples. It would be possible to cite other parallels between their beliefs and those of Jehovah’s Witnesses. In the following article, we will discuss additional ways to identify those who are teaching people the truth.

a reply to: whereislogic

I really hope one day you will stop referring to all the different dominations within Christendom(including Binitarians and Unitarians) as "Christianity"

I see your point, but I did state I wasn't arguing Jesus being the son of God i.e. Trinity/God in the flesh

I understand that even if you break orthodoxy and Catholicism which I belive are the two biggest Christian churches in the world they can't even agree on the trinity (1.5 billion total)

By Christian I am referring to follower of Christ, and yes I am aware I am simplify the definition, but I think it is appropriate for the topic of this thread.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: fatkid

The old saying "I know that I know nothing" sounds about right.

I know that one plus one is two, how about you?

Hey, that rhymes. I know that too.

a reply to: zosimov
Do All Religions Lead to the Same God?

“I have my own beliefs, and I am not going to change them. Anyway, it does not matter which faith you belong to because all religions lead to the same God.”

HAVE you ever heard someone express that opinion? Many people hold the view that all religions offer equally valid ways of finding God and understanding the meaning of life. Similarly widespread is the belief that there is good and bad in every religion and that no single faith has a monopoly on truth or can make the claim that it is the only way to God.

Such ideas are popular in today’s so-called tolerant or pluralistic society. In fact, those who think otherwise are often viewed as narrow-minded, even bigoted. What is your opinion? Do you feel that all religions ultimately lead to the same God? Does it matter which faith a person belongs to?

Are There Real Differences?

According to one encyclopedia, there are currently 9,900 religions worldwide, some of which span the globe and have millions of members. Estimates suggest that some 70 percent of mankind belong to the five major religions—Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism, Islam, and Judaism. If all religions lead to the same God, these five faiths surely ought to have many things in common in their teachings, their portrayal of God, and their explanation of God’s purpose. What do the facts show?

Roman Catholic theologian Hans Küng says that the major religions do indeed share some basic tenets within the realm of human relations. Most, for instance, are in favor of not to murder, not to lie, not to steal, not to commit incest, and they teach respect for parents as well as love for children. In other matters, however, and especially in their portrayal of God, these major religions differ drastically.

For example, Hindus worship a multitude of deities, whereas Buddhists are said to be unsure about a personal God. Islam teaches that there is one God. So do the churches that claim to be Christian, but most of them also claim that God is a Trinity. Even among the churches, there is a wide range of dogma. Mary, the mother of Jesus, is the object of devotion for Catholics but not for Protestants. Birth control is generally prohibited for Catholics but not for most Protestants. And Protestants cannot agree among themselves on the subject of homosexuality.

Is it logical to think that religions that embrace such a wide range of beliefs can all be worshipping the same God? Hardly. On the contrary, the result can be only confusion as to who God is and what he expects of those who worship him.

Do They Unite or Divide?

...And at the top of the list must be put World War II, which engulfed members of all five major religions, even involving members of the same faith on opposite sides of the conflict.

The conclusion is inevitable. The world’s religions have not brought peace and unity, nor have they led to the same God. On the contrary, they have divided mankind and painted a confusing picture of who God is and how to worship him. Hence, anyone wanting to come to the true God must carefully choose the path he takes. This is in harmony with what is encouraged by the Bible, one of the oldest religious books known to mankind.

Choose for Yourselves Whom You Will Serve

...

True Worshippers Recognized by Their Fruits

...Accordingly, true worshippers would be recognized by their fruits, or works. What are these fruits?—Matthew 7:16-20.

First, true worship unites believers in love. Jesus explained to his disciples: “I am giving you a new commandment, that you love one another; just as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all will know that you are my disciples, if you have love among yourselves.” True followers of Christ must display love for one another that is so outstanding as to characterize them as true worshippers in the eyes of observers.—John 13:34, 35.

For this reason it would be unthinkable for true Christians to take up arms against one another in war. Do church members keep to this standard? In World War II, the only major religious group that consistently and steadfastly refused to support the war effort in any way were Jehovah’s Witnesses.* Dr. Hanns Lilje, former bishop of the Protestant Church in Hannover, Germany, wrote about the Witnesses: “They can rightfully claim to be the only major conscientious objectors in the Third Reich.” During that conflict, Witnesses in many lands chose to suffer reprisals rather than to promote or support the war.

...
True Religion Is Set Apart

These fruits—self-sacrificing love, the desire to sanctify Jehovah’s name, the proclamation of God’s Kingdom, separateness from the world, and faith in the Bible—all characterize true worshippers. Such fruits also set genuine worshippers apart from other religions. One lady who had enjoyed several conversations with Jehovah’s Witnesses drew her own conclusions and said: “I know many religions, and they are all similar to one another. You are the only ones who are completely different from the others.”

Clearly, all religions do not lead to the same God. But there is one group that stands apart from all others—Jehovah’s Witnesses, now numbering over seven million around the world. By advocating and adhering to God’s Word, the Bible, they have done what no other group or organization has been able to do, namely, unite people of diverse nationalities, languages, ethnic backgrounds, and races in worship of the one true God, Jehovah. They will be happy to help you learn about the true God, find out what he requires of you, and enjoy the peace and security that come from worshipping God in the way that he approves. Is that not a worthwhile goal?

* = pay special attention to what's said at 20:50 in the documentary below, note how different the situation was for others, who had no choice in the matter. And in contrast, after 31 minutes (more like 31:20-33:03, especially at the end of that) and 6:10 in the video further below:

Has anyone connected the dots to Egyptology?

a reply to: whereislogic

"I know that one plus one is two, how about you?"

Actually we have been taught that 1+1=2 but in some extraordinary situations the results can be somewhat different. Humanity's notion of mathematics may be flawed down to the way we quantify things. Look at it this way one apple plus another apple gives us 2 apples. But are those apples exactly the same as each other?

"Hey, that rhymes. I know that too."

Maybe the universe rhymes or possible just loves symmetry?

a reply to: MerlintheUnholy

a few have tried to connect the dots between Islam and ancient religions, but not for the purpose of education, they have done it just to show that Muslims don't worship the God of Abraham,

If you want to take a crack at it, go ahead.

I would prefer if you would just remain unbiased In the approach.

My main line of research at the moment are the knights templar and Thoth Trismegistus. Very interesting study and it seems that most current religions and such stem from age old theories. Whether true or not I cannot say for the reasons that I wasn't alive so I didnt witness it but there is too much information to just be made up.

a reply to: MerlintheUnholy

Yeah but when we start talking emerald tablets and getting into Salt Mercury and Sulfur I don't think these things can be explained in a thread very accurately seeing as you have to go down so many separate rabbit holes and then return to a source.

Keeping that conversation from getting derailed would seem almost impossible, people try to give to much information at a time and wind up assuming you don't know anything about anything because you didn't type a 13 chapter book into an OP.

a reply to: fatkid
I comprehend

a reply to: fatkid

Finally someone who agrees...

In my opinion it is because God appeared in a way that it could be understood in the varying languages and cultures of the time period.

originally posted by: fatkid
a reply to: MerlintheUnholy

a few have tried to connect the dots between Islam and ancient religions, but not for the purpose of education, they have done it just to show that Muslims don't worship the God of Abraham,

If you want to take a crack at it, go ahead.

I would prefer if you would just remain unbiased In the approach.

Why would you assume that any facts that don't fit your narrative are biased? How do you propose that facts that dont support your opinion are presented as disinformation? You can't make an open thread and manipulate each person's response to fit your own agenda. Sorry.

a reply to: zosimov

You are free to offer anything you like, but the thing about historical facts is when we start talking about what happened thousands of years ago the "facts" become very opinionated even at the most scholastic levels.

Take note on your wording "how do you propose that "FACTS" that don't support your "OPINION" are..."

Are you going to offer anything or just continue to attack me?

a reply to: fatkid

You might want to start a blog or something, then you can have ultimate control over the ideas presented and you won't be faced with any dissent. Just a suggestion.

I suppose the archaeologists and records that have preserved the name of the Arabian moon god Allah are all biased because they don't support your facts? Or that the Kaaba predates Islam and the importance of the crescent moon in the religion is a coincidence (nothing to do with moon god Allah) and has no bearing on facts as you know?

What is your religion, might I ask?

a reply to: andy06shake
You'll probably like the comments I got about that subject in the following threads:

What is knowledge?, page 3 (the comment about wisdom before it may be of interest as well, especially the part about "knowledge" and "know" in relation to what you said and what I responded with to you)
The Greatest unanswered Question of all time, What is Truth?, page 2

The 2nd link has 2 vital comments in a row about that subject. And I responded to someone quoting Langer about it (basically presenting a more sophisticated version of your argument for the agnostic philosophy of vagueness expressed in Pontius Pilate's cynical question: "What is truth?").

The responses I got to the commentary in those threads (including other threads where I raised the same subject) seriously disheartened my belief that I could have a rational conversation about it on ATS. Too much programming by prominent influential and admired people like Langer (a guru), that still supercedes some guy on ATS trying to be reasonable about it.