Elon Musk is making progress on Neural Lace, a computer interface woven into the brain

originally posted by: dreamingawake
IMO the people(non elites) won't be included whether they want to or not. It's really a step for the elites, let 'em go be digital in their path for immortality, leave humanity and the planet be. If the grids crash they better hope they have numerous backups that can't be accessed.

Almost everyone is elite compared to someone else.
The millionaires think the billionaires are, the average joes think the millionaires are

The 3rd world think anyone in the 1st world are elites, etc...

So, its a meaningless statement. It will be available for people who can afford it..and more than likely life insurance companies will cover it..why wouldn't they. you pay them indefinately to remain alive..government would love it as you keep paying taxes without retirement, corporations would keep a consumer buying their stuff for eternity, etc etc...everyone would benefit from a immortal being controlled by such tech.

And as a side bonus, it would force us to push out into space just for purposes of real estate

a reply to: elementalgrove

I feel your pain brother. It's somewhat embarrassing how clueless these people are about what their goals would actually require though. They think they're gonna be able to upload a "personality" into a machine.

They're gonna pop their brain into a robot. They have no knowledge of the other components that make up our being, that sustains our physical body. Either you know this through experience, intuitively or even intellectually but if you don't: phantom limbs are a big hint.

They're gonna have to become a whole lot more sophisticated before they can truly start playing around with this stuff.

Yes, hubris would be a great way of putting it. Personally I would add (dangerous) cluelessness to the description.

Do people honestly to God believe that we as a civilisation are mature enough for this type of technology? We can't handle automatic weapons responsibly, what makes people think we can handle transhumanism? It's just plain ridiculous even on the face of it. What brand new horrible disasters can we expect from this? We're not even a truly sovereign species as it is.

And we don't need to get into metaphysics to see why transhumanism for humanity at our current level of maturity would be a bad idea either. We're simply not responsible enough.

You want to become gods? You'll be shipwrecked by the laughter of gods and end up a slave instead.

a reply to: gmoneystunt

Makes me think of the movie Treanscendence or the last season of the 100

originally posted by: TheLaughingGod
We're simply not responsible enough.

Speak for yourself.

a reply to: SaturnFX

Maybe you are. But are humanity as a collective? I think not. We are doing a terrible job as wardens of this planet's ecosystems and we can't even treat each other decently.

I don't really see how anyone can argue for the responsibility of humanity, we are not very responsible at all. Technological progress has no brakes, prudence doesn't even seem to come into it. We aren't even asking ourselves "should we?" It's just a mad dash, progress by any means.. a train with no brakes is a very good description, a train we couldn't stop even if we tried.. and virtually nobody in a position of power or in the public is even asking such questions, I have certainly never heard of anything like it.. We don't thoroughly evaluate the long term effects of the use of our technologies, and specifically not the specific confluence of effects various different technologies will have on us as a whole.

We should have agencies manned with futurists and scientists endlessly evaluating our progress and trying to chart future problems. But do we have anything even resembling that? No, we have think tanks that serve corporate or government interests.. I don't know, what do we have? And how efficacious, serious and well funded are those institutions?

Almost anything could happen at any time. We're lucky some genetically engineered virus or something hasn't escaped and killed millions of people already. The reality is we're killing off untold numbers of species yearly.

Let me paint a picture:

The rapid loss of species we are seeing today is estimated by experts to be between 1,000 and 10,000 times higher than the natural extinction rate.

Unlike the mass extinction events of geological history, the current extinction challenge is one for which a single species - ours - appears to be almost wholly responsible.

This is often referred to as the 6th extinction crisis, after the 5 known extinction waves in geological history.

So without arguing about who’s right or wrong.

Or what the exact numbers are.

There can be little debate that there is, in fact, a very serious biodiversity crisis.

We're currently the driving force behind a mass extinction event. Do you consider that responsible?

originally posted by: SaturnFX

originally posted by: dreamingawake
IMO the people(non elites) won't be included whether they want to or not. It's really a step for the elites, let 'em go be digital in their path for immortality, leave humanity and the planet be. If the grids crash they better hope they have numerous backups that can't be accessed.

Almost everyone is elite compared to someone else.
The millionaires think the billionaires are, the average joes think the millionaires are

The 3rd world think anyone in the 1st world are elites, etc...

So, its a meaningless statement. It will be available for people who can afford it..and more than likely life insurance companies will cover it..why wouldn't they. you pay them indefinately to remain alive..government would love it as you keep paying taxes without retirement, corporations would keep a consumer buying their stuff for eternity, etc etc...everyone would benefit from a immortal being controlled by such tech.

And as a side bonus, it would force us to push out into space just for purposes of real estate

Oh, yeah meaningless, the old 1 percent argument that US citizens are 1 percenters. SMH.

You think even the people who don't have a career/job situation setup, will be able to afford it?

Buying what and paying taxes on what; digital products, digital space? Because that's all their will be left to purchase.

originally posted by: dreamingawake
Oh, yeah meaningless, the old 1 percent argument that US citizens are 1 percenters. SMH.

All developed countries will have access to such tech. not every person in such countries will be able to afford it, and many will simply not opt in, but availability will be there, and for perhaps cheaper than you will think (after all, a rental plan on immortality would be quite nice for the people holding the contract...but there will be competition)

You think even the people who don't have a career/job situation setup, will be able to afford it?

In time, sure.

Buying what and paying taxes on what; digital products, digital space? Because that's all their will be left to purchase.

Creative works have always been a cornerstone in western society.

originally posted by: TheLaughingGod
a reply to: SaturnFX

Maybe you are. But are humanity as a collective? I think not.

Many people dont care too much about recycling and such because they feel their life is soo fleeting that they wont be here to watch the final outcome of our disasterous lifestyle. I imagine longevity will certainly make people consider the world differently.
But either way, for now, the only ones making a big wreck of the planet are overpopulated 3rd world nations like china or india. They will, in time, clean up their act as tech becomes available

we can't even treat each other decently.

Hard to believe, but the world is more at peace right now than it ever has been in recorded history. We just have cable news and the internet pumping guilt and fear into our homes 24/7 giving us the impression the world is falling apart.

We should have agencies manned with futurists and scientists endlessly evaluating our progress and trying to chart future problems. But do we have anything even resembling that? No,

Yes..we do..to an absurd extent, hense why things like cloning is banned in the west. its so restrictive that most innovation is most likely going to end up in areas outside of the US/UK simply because we have too many luddites and spiritualists making the laws.

Let me paint a picture:

No, your pictures are grim, pessimistic, and fearful.

I recommend you spend a bit of time reflecting on why you have such mistrust and distaste in humanity.
We have had, for a very long time now, the tech to nuke everyone into oblivion, yet we havent
We have had the tech to genetically create viruses that could wipe out entire nations, specific genetic traits, etc, but we havent.
Humanity is a short lifed spastic life that overall is seeking out goodness and wisdom. if not, this world would be hell on earth if even 10% was genuinely bad. Longevity would help out care, to be here and deal with the lasting effects of your actions. Have some faith in your fellow man.

originally posted by: TheLaughingGod
a reply to: SaturnFX
It's just a mad dash, progress by any means.. a train with no brakes is a very good description, a train we couldn't stop even if we tried.. and virtually nobody in a position of power or in the public is even asking such questions, I have certainly never heard of anything like it.. We don't thoroughly evaluate the long term effects of the use of our technologies, and specifically not the specific confluence of effects various different technologies will have on us as a whole.

Virtually nobody?

Doomsayers and transhumanists are getting a ridiculous amount of attention.

futureoflife.org... -- The Future of Life Institute (lots of famous academics)
lifeboat.com... -- The Lifeboat Foundation
ieet.org... -- The Institute for Ethics and Emerging Technologies

I could easily think of 20 more nonprofits that are cashing in on the craze.

The world's never in short supply of doom porn.

originally posted by: TheLaughingGod
a reply to: SaturnFX

Maybe you are. But are humanity as a collective? I think not. We are doing a terrible job as wardens of this planet's ecosystems and we can't even treat each other decently.

I don't really see how anyone can argue for the responsibility of humanity, we are not very responsible at all. Technological progress has no brakes, prudence doesn't even seem to come into it. We aren't even asking ourselves "should we?" It's just a mad dash, progress by any means.. a train with no brakes is a very good description, a train we couldn't stop even if we tried.. and virtually nobody in a position of power or in the public is even asking such questions, I have certainly never heard of anything like it.. We don't thoroughly evaluate the long term effects of the use of our technologies, and specifically not the specific confluence of effects various different technologies will have on us as a whole.

We should have agencies manned with futurists and scientists endlessly evaluating our progress and trying to chart future problems. But do we have anything even resembling that? No, we have think tanks that serve corporate or government interests.. I don't know, what do we have? And how efficacious, serious and well funded are those institutions?

Almost anything could happen at any time. We're lucky some genetically engineered virus or something hasn't escaped and killed millions of people already. The reality is we're killing off untold numbers of species yearly.

Let me paint a picture:

The rapid loss of species we are seeing today is estimated by experts to be between 1,000 and 10,000 times higher than the natural extinction rate.

Unlike the mass extinction events of geological history, the current extinction challenge is one for which a single species - ours - appears to be almost wholly responsible.

This is often referred to as the 6th extinction crisis, after the 5 known extinction waves in geological history.

So without arguing about who’s right or wrong.

Or what the exact numbers are.

There can be little debate that there is, in fact, a very serious biodiversity crisis.

We're currently the driving force behind a mass extinction event. Do you consider that responsible?

Well, the way I see it, if people really want to find out why it's such a stupid idea maybe they should be allowed to have at it. But frankly, I don't want to be caught up in it so I hope that whatever happens, I'm gone by the time it does. This is insanity. People were always nuts but it's always kind of been limited by ridiculously puny technology until recent times.

Even in the cold war years it was possible to at least be your own person and have the sanctity of your own mind and your own thoughts and dreams and ambitions respected and taken into consideration. These people basically are on the path to creating the Borg. Maybe that's not what they think they're doing. I don't know. That's what's going to happen, more or less. It's just human nature translated into machine language.

originally posted by: SaturnFX

originally posted by: TheLaughingGod
a reply to: SaturnFX

Maybe you are. But are humanity as a collective? I think not.

Many people dont care too much about recycling and such because they feel their life is soo fleeting that they wont be here to watch the final outcome of our disasterous lifestyle. I imagine longevity will certainly make people consider the world differently.
But either way, for now, the only ones making a big wreck of the planet are overpopulated 3rd world nations like china or india. They will, in time, clean up their act as tech becomes available

we can't even treat each other decently.

Hard to believe, but the world is more at peace right now than it ever has been in recorded history. We just have cable news and the internet pumping guilt and fear into our homes 24/7 giving us the impression the world is falling apart.

We should have agencies manned with futurists and scientists endlessly evaluating our progress and trying to chart future problems. But do we have anything even resembling that? No,

Yes..we do..to an absurd extent, hense why things like cloning is banned in the west. its so restrictive that most innovation is most likely going to end up in areas outside of the US/UK simply because we have too many luddites and spiritualists making the laws.

Let me paint a picture:

No, your pictures are grim, pessimistic, and fearful.

I recommend you spend a bit of time reflecting on why you have such mistrust and distaste in humanity.
We have had, for a very long time now, the tech to nuke everyone into oblivion, yet we havent
We have had the tech to genetically create viruses that could wipe out entire nations, specific genetic traits, etc, but we havent.
Humanity is a short lifed spastic life that overall is seeking out goodness and wisdom. if not, this world would be hell on earth if even 10% was genuinely bad. Longevity would help out care, to be here and deal with the lasting effects of your actions. Have some faith in your fellow man.

Nukes give world-ending-level power to nations. If .1% of individuals are evil, that 99.9% outweighs them.

Transhumanism gives that power to individuals. That .1% of individuals has free reign.

Not to mention, just pure accidents kick into effect at that level of individual empowerment. What's going to happen when transhuman-Billy-Bob gets high on dope or drinks a 12-pack of Budweiser and decides to work on his antimatter powered truck?

There's a reason we don't see transhuman-empowered individuals of alien species numbering in the billions running around acting of their own free-will. If that was the case, one of the billions of individuals would have made public contact with us by now. There aren't billions of free-willed transhuman-level aliens though. It would be chaos and destroy everything. They would destroy themselves.

But transhumanism is an inevitable technological development.. so it makes you wonder what happens to the free-will of those billions of individuals when it does occur? As it must have already occurred throughout the universe many times already?

By just applying game theory, you can start to see where this all ends up for the vast majority of sentient beings in a civilization that reaches the technological singularity..

originally posted by: RedDragon
There's a reason we don't see transhuman-empowered individuals of alien species numbering in the billions running around acting of their own free-will.

But transhumanism is an inevitable technological development.. so it makes you wonder what happens to the free-will of those billions of individuals when it does occur? As it must have already occurred throughout the universe many times already?

Consider that for a bit.

So, imagine overcoming mortality. Imagine a lifespan without end..linear time but endless.
first few hundred years may be great, even a couple thousand if you are travelling stars, have a hobby, etc, but eventually you will grow bored. the knowledge you can learn will hit a end and everything will seem dull. eventually it would lead to madness without any new perspectives.

It would be not just a fantastic past time, but perhaps necessary to survive to experience new perspectives..have new lives...so part of transhumanism may be a occasional "rebirth" into a new eye on a medium, a old fashioned meat animal with limited senses and a sense of near infant wonder in the universe in development phase...

and now you have religion and what the "soul" is.

Perhaps evidence of ancient species that achieved this level only need be seen in each other and listening/filtering when people say they have a NDE and go back to their original state..saying this isnt the truth of our species but rather just a distraction.



makes a hell of a lot more sense than religion anyhow.

a reply to: SaturnFX

Been reading The Better Angels of Our Nature, I see.

So have I. Great stuff, eh?

I heartily agree with your post.

a reply to: SaturnFX

Interesting thought but feelings can be programmed too.

originally posted by: Astyanax
a reply to: SaturnFX

Been reading The Better Angels of Our Nature, I see.

So have I. Great stuff, eh?

I heartily agree with your post.

Never heard of it, but I guess there is no such thing as original thought.

a reply to: TheMalefactor

Thank you, one of the reasons I wrote that was to see if anyone would point me in the right direction.

I don't know, what do we have? And how efficacious, serious and well funded are those institutions?

Seems like at least some people are worried but I don't see any public debate going on, and in my opinion this stuff should be somewhere at the top of the list of important issues.

a reply to: BrianFlanders

Unfortunately I believe in reincarnation so I'm not so sure that I can escape just by dying. Besides, isn't it kind of selfish to just go "eh, let the new generations figure it out".. and then succumb to apathy?

originally posted by: TheLaughingGod


a reply to: BrianFlanders

Unfortunately I believe in reincarnation so I'm not so sure that I can escape just by dying. Besides, isn't it kind of selfish to just go "eh, let the new generations figure it out".. and then succumb to apathy?

Do you know anyone who isn't fundamentally selfish? Think about it before you respond. Here'[s a clue. You don't. And reincarnation is BS. Your believing in it doesn't make it any less so.

a reply to: BrianFlanders

No, but everyone being selfish in some capacity isn't a good reason to just stop caring and let everything go to #. It justifies nothing. It just makes a person culpable.

And your gnostic(knowing, being certain) position isn't really backed up by anything. It's just your opinion based on nothing but ignorance.

Throughout our history whenever an avatar has appeared on this World and wowed the population to such an incredible extent that they've been immortalised and even deified, displaying miraculous abilities and preaching wisdom, they have very often taught the doctrine of reincarnation.

This is true for both Jesus(Gospel of Thomas), Krishna and Buddha.

This in itself is circumstantial evidence but there is more evidence than that for it:



There are many, many documented cases like this.

So your ignorant dismissal and your certainty is just evidence of your ignorance and nothing more.

Just waiting for Elon Musk to go bankrupt so his idiot schemes will fizzle out.

a reply to: SaturnFX

You should read it. Most of the stuff you're talking about came into the public forum with that book.

The Better Angels of Our Nature