Originally posted by deesw
Have you stopped to realize that millions of people throughout history have been killed in the name of Jesus Christ? I guess that all of those people were wrong.

I don't see how people believing in something makes it true. Long ago people made human sacrifices, many of them willingly, for what they believed in. Surely they were not right in their beliefs, were they?

Or have you stopped to think that if the Moon was just a few feet closer to us that the Earth could not sustain life, or that if the waters on this earth contained one more molecule of oxygen or hydrogen that we would also perish. Have you stopped to think that if we were any closer to the sun, or farther away this planet could not sustain life.

This is a laughable argument. Have you ever wondered how nicely water fits in a puddle? It's as if the puddle was made just for that water, isn't it? The fact is, Earth can sustain life. If it couldn't then we wouldn't be here. No matter where intelligent life popped up, they would be asking themselves the same questions. Perhaps you don't know just how large the universe is. If life didn't appear here, it would've appeared somewhere else and they'd be thinking the same thing. It was going to happen.

According to evolution, a large cloud of gas accidently exploding, accidently building planet Earth, accidently filling it with H2O, accidently making the Sun, accidently then made single celled organisms, then they accidently evolved into multicellular organisms, then they accidently grew fins and learned mobility, then they accidently grew legs and crawled up out of the oceans, then accidently stood upright to better serve themselves on land, then accidently became intelligent and ultimately became masters of all the Earth. That is a serious chain of accidents.

It sure is. And I'm sure elsewhere in the universe similar accidents have occured, perhaps not making it quite as far. You don't realize that there really isn't any time limit on when a planet suitable for life had to be formed. If Earth didn't form, or wasn't suitable for life, another planet would be in the future. Given enough time, it was going to happen.

Remember, if you believe in God and are wrong, what have you lost? If you were right then you've gained eternity.

Doesn't sound like a good reason to believe in God. Are you afraid that if you didn't believe, you wouldn't be saved? I've said before that religion often appeals to guilt and fear, this is a perfect example.

Thoughts are a result of chemicals,,,,,,, give me a break. That is quite possibly the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

Listen here. I am obviously more well-versed on this subject than you. How do drugs work? Think about it. The answer is obvious. Let's take alcohol for instance. Alcohol affects neurotransmitters in the brain, which play a large role in emotion, so alcohol disrupts our moods. It interferes with communication between nerve cells and all other cells.

Serotonin, dopamine, noradrenalin are neurotransmitters which affect moods. Highs of serotonin cause feelings of happiness, highs of dopamine cause euphoria. Lows of both of these cause depression and anxiety. These aren't part of some spiritual side of you. Drugs don't somehow tap into your soul and cause you to feel different. It is all within your physical body.

Get real

I think I find myself more real than you. You apparently find yourself as a spiritual entity controlling a physical body, but I'm all here, in this body. Sorry that you have to separate yourself like that.

That's where faith comes in. The Quran teaches their people to kill and injure, how does that sound right. The Jews believe in the same GOD as I, just not in his son. That will be their downfall.

Sounds to me like you do not wish to deal with guilt. People do not believe what the Bible says because it says that things that the individual does are wrong.
You are more educated than ? Do not ever insinuate that. Because you went to some school and took evolution classes and medical classes does not mean crap to me. I also went to college. I took historical geology my second semester and almost changed my major to geology. I have a massive rock and fossil collection, but still know in my heart that Evolution is a load of crap. My sister has her doctorate in Nursing and she is a Christian and does not follow your belief system on chemicals in the brain causing us to think. True i believe they can affect it, but not cause it.
Sounds like you need to feel more and think less.

I find it funny that a creationist is telling me to think less. Really adds credibility to their beliefs, doesn't it?

The Bible has never been discredited, but your whacked out theory has.

Nothing much….science just has to PROVE what existed before the Big Bang was NOT God. Easy enough eh? Until then, evolution is simply a tool of creation.

Why can’t you evolutionist understand that? Evolution works because GOD decides it does, not the other way around.

I am certainly still amazed by the very existance , the complexity and the scale of the universe and sometimes I even have this closeted religious tendencies, I think religion is in the human genes. Even the hardcore UFOlogists and Wiccan girls I think are basically religious at heart, trying to explain the supernatural, the mysterious and the meaning of their lives.

And the atheist is too much in denial, he MUST be religious


But what I see around that me is that above all the cultural context in wich you are born tend to determine how we shape our spiritual needs, if we pray to God, to Allah or the gods of the rainforest, or even to Darwin and Einstein.

Sometimes I wonder what I would be posting if I was born and raised in rural Iran or Buddhist Nepal, or the conservative Heartland of america, would I have become a muslim , a buddhist or a Creationist???

Lets just say I am not sure and for the time being I search my God through science rather than one of the holy scriptures, I don't think the two are mutually exclusive...


[edit on 23-1-2005 by Countermeasures]

Originally posted by Countermeasures


Lets just say I am not sure and for the time being I search my God through science rather than one of the holy scriptures, I don't think the two are mutually exclusive...


[edit on 23-1-2005 by Countermeasures]

Its a very intersting idea.....but how exactly do you go about searching for GOD through science???...I some how dont see this working out. I dont think you can have it both ways.

Originally posted by Nygdan
Similarly, FF, why are some staunch creationists
afraid to admit that there might not be physical
evidence for god's involvment in the world?
Surely god doesn't need to leave evidence no?

I think you just answered yourself. God doesn't need
to leave evidence and perhaps there is no physical
evidence as you think of 'evidence'.

But as far as I am concerned (yes, not very scientific)
the very fact that we are here and that we have order
out of such chaos ... that is the physical evidence.
I have other emotional or non-physical evidence ...
when God speaks in the depths of my soul. But you
can't put that in a test tube. It's just something that
I know as absolute reality.

But .. back to the question of evolution/creation.
I have noticed that God seems to work rather slowly.
Painfully slowly. I have no problem with evolution,
as long as God is recognized as the author of evolution.

Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by MemoryShock
If god created everything, who created god?

*shrugging* God only knows who created Him.

God always was and always will be. He wasn't 'created'.
Our minds can't wrap around that ... but after physical
death, we will be able to 'see' more. We are babies now.
Not ready or able to understand etherial things too well.

My proof of God rests in my own soul. I have felt Him
stir in it ... I have felt His movements. When that happens,
it is undeniable proof to the person He is intimate with.

That proof can't fit in a test tube, but that's what I have.

I don't care if God took one day or a million years to create
people. But in the end ... He is the one who created us...
whether He spot zapped us into life or whether He took
his time ... it doesn't matter to me. I just know He did it.

I think it's pointless trying to convince someone one way or the other. Neither theory can be proven, and without proof, it's almost impossible to change someones convictions.

I'll continue to believe in evolution, and others will continue to believe in creationism, and good for me and them. If everyone agreed on everything, the world (and ATS) would be a very boring place.

As a creationist.......nothing will make me believe evolution. You asked, I answered. Sometimes people just have to learn to agree to disagree and move on.

Originally posted by abigail
As a creationist.......nothing will make me believe evolution. You asked, I answered. Sometimes people just have to learn to agree to disagree and move on.

I was waiting for someone to say this.

And yet creationists say they are open minded. I dont see how a view like this is open minded.

I am an evolutionist, but i would never say anything like this. I will always keep an open mind to creationism. It seems you do not have an open mind for evolution. This is the exact point that i was trying to prove all along. Its much easier to convert an evolutionist into a creationist, than the other way around.

Thanks for proving my point abigail.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
However it doesn't explain how that life started in the first place....


If you want a creationist to believe that we came to be because of evolution, you're going to have to do a much better job explaining how life was formed in the first place (and why/how did that life decide to multiply into the millions of other species)

But god doesn't explain how god became either. If everything needs a creator, then doesn't god also need a creator? If not, then why do we need a creator?

[edit on 24-1-2005 by Mr_Mojo_Rising]

I don't have to prove anything.......God has already. If you ask an aethist if they believe in God....they say no and often that is that. The question was asked on this thread what would it take for me to believe in evolution. Well...I answered it. I don't believe we came from monkey's and I suspect you don't believe we came from God. You have your right to your opinion and so do I.......its called freedome of speech. Great concept huh!! Smile......its the internet.

You do realize there's a good chance that god will be disproven someday? Will you still make your case then?

God will never be proven dead. The Bible has made the case. Faith is a personal thing and some of us actually have it. Just because I believe in God and Christ does not make my views any less important than yours. Bottom line is when the world finally does end........guess we all will find out what the truth actually is, till then......thats my story and I am sticking with it....

PS: Fun site, I love debates and a lot is offered here. Its just the net.....have fun with it.

Yep, but the sad part is, when we're dead, I won't be able to say, "See!!! I told you there was no afterlife, god, or heaven!" It'll be tough to rub it in with no consiousness.

LOL. You may have a point there. But our souls will ascend into heaven so my parting words to you would be on the way up........stay off of my cloud........ I wonder if we get to pick our wings.....I want the really fast ones.......weeeeeeeeeeeeee