Trumps new tax plan

I think we can all agree that government is corrupt.

What I find confusing is that people still ant government to tax us more.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
I think we can all agree that government is corrupt.

What I find confusing is that people still ant government to tax us more.

In my case it's that I find corruption to be a result of a mix between the amount of public scrutiny received and the power of the people to change it. On that scale, private business is the most corrupt because there is no expectation of transparency, and the only ability the people have to change things is through protesting with their wallets... something that has been shown over and over to not work.

On the government side of things, the feds are always in the public eye and while expensive the public can represent themselves through lobbying (in addition to using their votes for the House of Representatives and Senate). On the state and local level most of the elections go ignored especially on the state level where people want to transfer power but have none of the oversight, and the local level just doesn't have the resources needed.

It's not that the federal government isn't corrupt because I agree with you, it is. It's that they're less corrupt than the alternatives.

a reply to: burgerbuddy

Exactly, but people in this country want to punish the prosperous simply because they don't have, rather than letting the businesses widen the path to prosperity.

a reply to: Aazadan

I never believed for on minute that Trump would ditch the elite for the common man.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

ya, we get to vote... for frick or frack....neither of which plans on changing a danged thing....

if they are living on your blood and sweat like you claim, then...well... wouldn't they just need more of your blood and sweat to pay the stupid tax you want them to pay?? plus the cost of them to go to H&R Block every year to have their taxes done... of whom by the way, always seem to find a way to get them the most refunds possible?

seems to me a better way to get them paying income taxes would be to give them wages that cause them to loose the tap to your blood and sweat and makes them subject to the income tax system we have now.

originally posted by: Willtell
a reply to: Aazadan

I never believed for on minute that Trump would ditch the elite for the common man.

Neither did I. I've said for a while here that Trump is claiming to be anti establishment but is quietly in bed with them. This tax plan is proof of that. He's as elite as it gets. Ivy League school, blatant member of the donor class, celebrity, bought politicians.

originally posted by: rnaa
So before Trump can have any credibility on any new (or old for that matter) economic plan for the country, he needs to earn some credibility on his own economic status. The only way to do that is to release his tax returns.

Speaking of tax returns, did you hear Donald Trump is refusing to release them because Donald Trump has donated to NAMBLA? That’s what all the best sources, the most tremendous sources are saying anyway.

What is he hiding?

He has plenty of credibility with me. He doesn't require a 101 level head game like "What's he hiding".

How about slick timing....

a reply to: BlueAjah

That's campaign analysis. There's no fact in it.

The truth is that the federal government is obscenely big and they stay that way by justifying their own existence by creating the problems they were constituted to stop in the first place.

DEA is the war on drugs, DOEd is the dumbing down of America through political interjection into education. This has resulted in enclave educational systems and entire regions that are brainwashed with one kind of political propaganda or another.

Other departments represent the same mechanics in other areas. Especially areas that are large in scope. Like the environment.

With out abolishing entire departments and scrapping their activities we will never be free of the black holes they represent.

a reply to: Aazadan

Before you can Tax Productive Wealth , you Must First Create it . Something Socialism and it's Proponents have Never Figured Out .

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: rnaa
So before Trump can have any credibility on any new (or old for that matter) economic plan for the country, he needs to earn some credibility on his own economic status. The only way to do that is to release his tax returns.

He is under audit.

So what?

Trump suggested he was prohibited from releasing the returns because of the audit, even though an audit carries no such stricture. (Ask Richard Nixon, who released his returns while being audited).

The question should be, why is Obama's IRS taking so long to review his returns? They have had plenty of time.

Nothing to do with Obama. The IRS does what the IRS does and has been doing it exactly that way since long before either Obama or Trump could even count to 10. (Again, ask Richard Nixon, who released his returns while being audited).

originally posted by: DAVID64
a reply to: rnaa

Why did you quote The Daily Beast? If you're going to do that, you should at least quote the whole article.
Maybe then, you won't look quite so dishonest and manipulative.

I didn't know I was quoting the Daily Beast. I am not even sure what the Daily Beast is. I have never read it. And that is the honest truth.

But if Donald Trump is donating to NAMBLA, I would think that people should know about it.

There is, after all, photographic proof of his rather creepy relationship with his daughter, and he has said several times that he wants to 'date' her. It seems to me very believable that Trump is exactly the kind of guy that would be supporting and donating to NAMBLA.

MAN-BOY LOVE08.08.16 12:00 AM ET NAMBLA Becomes Donald Trump’s Birther Moment Did Donald Trump donate to money to the North American Man-Boy Love Association? A bot certainly wants you to think so. Donald Trump absolutely, unequivocally did not donate money to the North American Man-Boy Love Association.
But that’s not what “some people” are saying.
“Speaking of tax returns, did you hear Donald Trump is refusing to release them because Donald Trump has donated to NAMBLA? That’s what all the best sources, the most tremendous sources are saying,” said EnoughTrumpSpam’s AutoModerator.
AutoModerator is, of course, a robot that’s been fed code to spit out this exact, completely baseless and fact-free conspiracy theory about Donald Trump every single time somebody brings up taxes. It started on Reddit, but in just a couple of days, the conspiracy theory has flooded Twitter and other corners of the web. “Trump and NAMBLA” saw a spike on Google Trends this week. And it’s not just an effort to get Trump to release his tax returns. It’s a way to show off how Trump’s conspiracy rhetoric is always precisely worded, but also based on nothing at all. Take this, for example:

www.thedailybeast.com...
Hmm. So, it was a bot that generated it, not these so called "best sources".

ETA - The guy who created this thought it would be funny. "A good laugh" is the way he put it.
It takes a special kind of brainless assh**e to spread a rumor like that with absolutely no proof.
Hint.



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a reply to: projectvxn

But to completely abolish the ATF ... man I dunno. Even I am a little skiddish on that. They do a fine job of actually helping solve a lot of murders or firearms related crimes in local municipalities due to their excellent investigative work. And I mean, I think we can all agree perhaps industrial strength 'firecrackers' and the materials and skill set for them is something worth monitoring and regulating.

Lets try and imagine OKC in '95 and how far investigation would have went if the ATF and the purpose it served in regards to that did not exist.

Q: "What materials are capable of doing this? A: "We will have to track down a specialist in the armed forces EOD, perhaps in anther state." Q "Ok now that we finally have that, do we have a list of everywhere these materials are stored, or can be acquired together?" A:" No sir, we do not have any agency for keeping a catalogue of this information" Q "do we at least have a list of the people who have been trained or employed with these skillsets in the last five years?" A: "no sir, we do not have an agency tasked with maintaining this information."

Its going to become real frustrating, really fast to get the answer for the deaths of all these people without an agency involved to handle the information. Obviously this is a discussion into a specific agency for another topic, but as an example into why a blanket termination of a specific agency may not be the best immediate course of action.

For instance department of education was tasked originally to tear apart segregation right?? It would almost seem in some jurisdictions it is actually reversing back to promote it. Plus they are overreaching way too much into state and local beliefs and not doing well to raise the critical thinking of our population. However they provide subsidized meals to millions of needy children everyday through grants. This would not be necessary if we were not paying a Federal income tax, and allowed the State themselves to fund it from their own income taxes. Again, thats a specific agency, another discussion.

I was thinking the cuts can be made by restructuring the mission statements and purpose of many of the agencies and returning responsibility of some of those cuts to the states themselves. This would beg the question though, should we make it mandatory that each state have its own regulating agencies, and the Federal version is merely as oversight in regards to compliance to constitutional standards???? Its an idea .....

The ATF could just be the department for tracking explosive material, or whatever. Let either the USDA, or FDA take back oversight of legal matters for the A & T . The F will simple be a matter of each state's law enforcement agencies.

I think thats a reasonable compromise no??

SELL OUT! SELL OUT! SELL OUT! SELL OUT! SELL OUT! SELL OUT! SELL OUT! SELL OUT! SELL OUT! SELL OUT! SELL OUT! SELL OUT! SELL OUT! SELL OUT! SELL OUT! SELL OUT! SELL OUT! SELL OUT! SELL OUT! SELL OUT! SELL OUT!

originally posted by: Zanti Misfit
a reply to: Aazadan

Before you can Tax Productive Wealth , you Must First Create it . Something Socialism and it's Proponents have Never Figured Out .

They've figured it out just fine. Go ask the drug companies who have their R&D costs subsidized by 50% and are then protected by stifling patent laws how it's working out for them.

Pure Capitalism which is all about remaining competitive cannot compete against Socialism which can use the resources of the state to pump up private corporations. Lets take another example like manufacturing. China has killed us in manufacturing because their government subsidizes the factories to get them built, get workers in, and get people paid. So not only do they have an advantage against us in the currency exchange but we have companies who only have a couple million in capital to operate and expand trying to face off against companies that don't even have to turn a profit in the short term, because their government keeps them afloat.

We see the same thing with mega corps vs mom and pop's in the US. The megacorp like Walmart can drop prices to the point where they lose money on an item, just to drive out the competition and build a monopoly. Socialism makes that happen even more often and the ordinary business can't fight back.

a reply to: AmericanRealist

Their investigations department can be absorbed into the FBI for those purposes.

Abolishing the ATF is essentially a way to cut out redundancy.

a reply to: projectvxn

Well I guess, but I would hope there would be a department to keep tabs on all demolitions and mining explosive material as well as the people licensed to handle them. I like the fact that things don't always go boom in the USA. At least with guns, we can see and identify the perp, and everyone has a fair shot to take them down.

A bomb maker will just drop a device off inside a discreet container and can go back across the city and detonate killing dozens to hundreds of innocent people in a mere second. If there was one thing in this country that I feel should receive heavy scrutiny, it would be explosives.

My parents come from a country where gangsters would set off car bombs and even downed an airliner with explosives just to kill one guy. Part of the allure of America is that it doesn't happen here but what? Once a generation if we're unlucky? I don't want to suddenly realize one day, I am now living in Colombia. # that.

a reply to: AmericanRealist

I feel the opposite. Explosives in a market place are the sort of necessary terrorism that needs to be available to the people if they ever decide to take up arms against the government. Until the people can fight head on against the military (and that will never happen), they need the ability to disrupt commerce and reduce tax revenues as the way to fight against the state.

I'm not telling people to go out and fight right now, because we don't need to... but there's a reason to keep bomb components readily available.

It's not that I want the bad guys to do these things, but rather that I see the value in the good guys having the ability to if required.

a reply to: AmericanRealist

The ATF has become too large of a system and they try to make rules on the fly to ban this or that.

They tried doing it with 5.56 and failed. But they did succeed with 5.45x39 7N1 ammunition. I think their only mission is to maintain their relevance. Their investigations departments and all the expertise that comes with that could be absorbed into the FBI very easily.

Just under the DOJ there's several redundant departments that exist for reasons unknown, other than how good the money is.

The ATF isn't the only one either. Every large cabinet level department has several redundant agencies and sub departments under their command. It's really quite amazing how large the federal government actually is.

Each of those agencies operate with their own budgets earmarked by congress each fiscal year. There's no reason for the kinds of redundant agencies we have when so much more can be done with fewer departments, better technology, and training.

The DOD has a contractor problem. Its enormous and it's costing billions.

As I was leaving the army they weren't allowing the maintenance company to do phase inspections anymore and kicking it to the civilians just to keep them there.

We have to come with with work to give them to justify their existence. It was a waste of money.

originally posted by: Aazadan

www.forbes.com...

www.wsj.com...

www.bloomberg.com...

The new Trump plan is certainly better for the economy than anything Madam Clinton has suggested or proposed, but it is simply lipstick on a pig. The USA's tax code and the authority of the IRS is something he should have targeted and made hay over. There were several things he could have done that would have been really helpful in restarting the economy from the bottom up, but he only focused on the top down model so loved by elements of the Republican elite.

Certainly Trump managed to present himself in a way that he needed to do. But there really was not as much meat to this plan as there should have been. To my mind, Trump's economic speech will encourage libertarian Republicans to abandon ship and go vote for Johnson/Weld.

I had hoped for the sake of the USA's people who earn under 250,000 a year that Trump would have come out with genuine out of the box thinking. He could have announced an amnesty for all previous IRS debts held by U.S. citizens. When the US government "loses" money the way he does, it would have been a brilliant gesture that would have caught the imagination of any voter who had received a dreaded notice from the IRS.

a reply to: Aazadan

but they are readily available, to those who are licensed and skilled in their trade to utilize them. Plus, anyone with a serious education in chemistry could easily gain the knowledge.

There is a right to bear arms, but explosives are ordnance, not arms. You can buy a under mounted launcher for your rifle with only a little bit of scrutiny, because this arm can shoot flares, or smoke, or confetti as well. But if you seek out an actual shell packed with boom stuff, I would say that warrants some inquiry at the very least. I would not want someone launching grenades at a governor where hundreds of innocent people are standing nearby.

If you are willing to file the paperwork, and pay the money though, you technically still have that right here in the states. And many private citizens in the USA do own these types of weapons, that is their right. But lets be reasonable, it is not an undue burden to make sure that everything you make is accounted for, and every round is properly stored. This is not even an issue of kids finding it like a gun an hurting themselves or another.

This is just walking by the garage of someone who is not regulated or required to make special storage accommodations (a bunker about 500 feet away from any other structure with a heavily reinforced perimeter) and then having your ass blown off while minding your own business because some dude didn't pay mind to the mixture for his personal pipe b0mb collection during certain conditions. Explain that to his family because he was the only one working.

Explosives are not a pleasant thing to even experience from a safe distance. The # is #ing LOUD. There are no Live metal concerts that can compete to what it does to your hearing.