Voter ID scrapped in NC.

a reply to: network dude

Nothing in life is free.
Why do all the same gov types want another law requiring people to have ID on them more when people already have to prove who they are when they register?
Seems like another reason for a law like this is to make it harder for people to vote.
What happened to laws only apply to law abiding citizens and criminals are just going to figure out how to get around them anyway?

a reply to: Sremmos80

Hoop jumping requirements seem to ignore the fact that hoops were jumped through already to get to that point.

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: ketsuko
Most of the people they claim are being disenfranchised are likely on public assistance.

How do they access that without ID?

Public assistance doesn't ask for ID. It runs pretty much entirely off of Social Security, bank account numbers, and mailing addresses. Verification is done through back end systems (which all ultimately rely on the SSN provided) and not handing the case worker an ID.

How do you get a SSN, a bank account, or a residence?

Meanwhile, I think you are saying that it is very easy to fraud the public assistance system...

originally posted by: Teikiatsu
How do you get a SSN, a bank account, or a residence?

Meanwhile, I think you are saying that it is very easy to fraud the public assistance system...

SSN's are provided when you're born. Bank accounts are only for the purpose of having a place to send funds, I think they use prepaid debit cards for some forms of assistance now so bank accounts aren't even a necessity. A residence doesn't require an ID.

The last 3 places I lived, I didn't provide an ID. A check with my name on it to pay rent was good enough.

And the public assistance system is in some ways very easy to fraud, in other ways it is difficult. For example, there is very little verification that I am who I say I am, so I could claim to be multiple people. But, for each claim I would need some documents to back it up.

I have my name, I have my lease, I have utility bills, and I have tax and bank records all to prove my income and expenses.

If I had someone else's SSN who has appropriate tax records, I could open a bank account in their name with a bit of credit fraud. I could rent an apartment under a false name, and then sublet that apartment with a lease to the fraudulent SSN. From there I could establish a utility trail. And eventually, putting all of this together I could make a claim for some assistance, and probably get it all without ever showing an ID and profit something like $125/month.

Everything I just mentioned doing though is very illegal, still requires getting a bit of help with knowing what SSN to use (though this isn't overly difficult), and carries steep penalties. All for what would result in about $125/month after expenses. If you have the know how to do all that, you can get a better paying job that's less time consuming.

All of this is made irrelevant by the fake ID's you can buy on the deep web for $500 each though, that are made with our surplus equipment, meaning they're unlikely to be found as counterfeit.

Though I should mention, it's Job/Family services (the food stamp, child support, etc people) that I've never seen require ID. As of about 1.5 years ago, the Social Security office started asking for ID every now and then, but even in that case all they're really doing is checking to make sure the name on the ID matches the name assigned to the SSN you give them. There's no actual verification of the ID that takes place.

ID laws disproportionately effects non-white ppl. Voter ID laws are only one way to even out the playing field for republicans. There are also less places to vote. Republicans are good voters presidential year or not. Democrats are terrible voters if it's not a presidential election. Republicans have reduced the amount of places u can vote in some states from 300 to 40. Along with ID laws for voter fraud which isn't real, it's just regurgitated at ppl so much they believe it.

I don't think America has an independent elections organization running things but voting should be made easier not harder. The fact that criminals can't vote and that you tell people that if they can't make arrangements for this ID or that, that they don't deserve to vote. Voting isn't like driving.
Voting is a right, not a privilege.
Love how little faith you ppl have in American democracy.

PS: the ID restrictions were to hard at first, to the point where they started affecting white ppl, so they changed the restrictions and added more IDs to the list

originally posted by: buster2010

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: buster2010
a reply to: network dude

My question is, why is this even a thing? You must have an ID to cash a check, to buy beer, to buy cigarettes, to drive, to rent an apartment.

Perhaps if you were to learn the difference between a right and a privilege you would understand.

So I shouldn't need an ID to buy a gun.

You need the id for the background check to make sure you have not had any felony convictions.

And that's probably why some don't want to identify themselves to vote. They are hiding from child support or some other offense and sure don't want to make it any easier to find them.

My grandfather voted republican all his life till he died. After that, he voted democrat. (Okay...it's an old one )

a reply to: Sremmos80
You do realize that "anecdotal evidence" or personal experience is what testimony in a courtroom really is? Evidence is evidence. You don't need to do scientific studies to have verifiable evidence. In this case the evidence that voter fraud had taken place is there---just no evidence of who committed the fraud.
As for not trusting investigations---maybe it's because I've seen too many of them happen only to have the real evidence swept away under the carpet.
When the elections hinge on a dozen or so votes and the board members being voted in are spending millions in taxpayer dollars, yeah, I think it is better to be extra certain that the people sitting on those boards are doing so because the election was clean.

a reply to: GokuVsSuperman0

Republicans have reduced the amount of places u can vote in some states from 300 to 40.

You have a link to back this up? How did that happen? Election boards are supposed to be made up of equal numbers of both major parties. I'd really like to see where you got that info if you please.

originally posted by: diggindirt
a reply to: GokuVsSuperman0

Republicans have reduced the amount of places u can vote in some states from 300 to 40.

You have a link to back this up? How did that happen? Election boards are supposed to be made up of equal numbers of both major parties. I'd really like to see where you got that info if you please.

I can tell you that I read that Ohio republicans have 'worked' to reduce the number of polling locations. I am sure if you google it, you will find an article.

This is the scam, as I see it, since I believe that democrats and republicans have worked together to make our election systems less secure...

Democrats eliminate the need for ID, and republicans reduce the number of polling places so that busloads of 'voters' can be brought from out of their neighborhoods to vote at places where people don't even recognize them.

Or, that's how I worry the crooked left & right might have coordinated their efforts to hijack our elections' systems.

But I never see voter fraud studies that look into voter reforms with that type of objectivity.

It's always one side against the other. I call BS. They work together.

a reply to: network dude

I am commenting before reading the rest of the comments. The regressive leftists "believe" that requiring ID's to vote is "disenfranchising" minority voters.

It is exactly as you say it is, a rouse. They want anyone to be able to walk up and vote. Democrats lie and pander to all of the different minority groups, pretending to care about the "poor oppressed _______" in America. It all comes down to buying votes.

Once they scam people into believing they are victims, they then scam them into thinking they care about said victim group.

And then they get into office and continue business as usual with total disregard for all of the groups they just scammed.

It's a scam.

originally posted by: Winstonian
a reply to: network dude

I am commenting before reading the rest of the comments. The regressive leftists "believe" that requiring ID's to vote is "disenfranchising" minority voters.

It is exactly as you say it is, a rouse. They want anyone to be able to walk up and vote. Democrats lie and pander to all of the different minority groups, pretending to care about the "poor oppressed _______" in America. It all comes down to buying votes.

Once they scam people into believing they are victims, they then scam them into thinking they care about said victim group.

And then they get into office and continue business as usual with total disregard for all of the groups they just scammed.

It's a scam.

You need to learn how to spell. 'Ruse' not 'Rouse'. And as for the rest of your post.... meh.

Leave it to me to put it bluntly. Yes...everything said here is correct. You should have to identify yourself and prove who you are and that you have the right to vote. But lets make it even more simple.

If you can't get an ID of some acceptable type, you either shouldn't be voting or don't have the mental capacity TO be voting.

a reply to: AngryCymraeg

Real mature. Amazing argument, you really added a lot to the conversation as usual.

I keep a little side document of regressive's that I ignore on this site.

Bye!

originally posted by: GokuVsSuperman0
ID laws disproportionately effects non-white ppl.

Could you explain how please.

It puts an agency over someones right to vote... not everyone can afford those voter ID cards. So it gets lumped into a drivers license but not everyone can get one of those, so it then goes into an state ID and not everyone can get one of those. But such things have been used for discrimination and gerrymandering of districts.

In this country we are required one form of ID a social security number. Of course with identity fraud thats something you should ONLY share with who? Government agencies...

Every citizen has a right to vote shouldn't matter what state someone is in when voting for the president of the united states.

There are plenty of outside influences on in state elections and I dont think thats right as they are not a resident. But that goes into that whole reform business that is much needed.

Many think oh well if we let industry pander to us it means more jobs so they are more important than the citizens of the state. There was never an issue until that special interest group made it an issue, in order to enact illegal discrimination.

The US justice department has said the state of NC is a couple decades behind in human rights and civil liberties that was enacted in the civil rights movement.

There is rampant discrimination simply due to the "we dont like your kind" mentality instead of one of acceptance.

It does not offer growth it does not offer encouragement of new business, and it does not promote tourism and it does not promote small grass roots industry nor diversity.

I have found it nice walking downtown and eating in my city as it is a tourist destination, and there has been way more people from all over the world visiting than usual.

Yesterday I went to eat in a Vietnamese restaurant that was perhaps two ex patriots from Vietnam looking for home cooking... myself and the staff. The food was wholly sublime, so good my tongue is going to be thinking about it for months.

Well, some people came in which I thought was nice for business... being so slow. But when staff wasn't around I was underwhelmed by the expecting it to be like fast food and the tongue in cheek slurs etc. coming from the new patrons.

I thought it almost like these people were hired to drive off customers, by being so belligerent, and I mean the food in this restaurant is in my top all time 5 best I have ever eaten in my entire life.

It's a sad thing when the lack of social graces gets the boot for social norms. I don't care for the social norms of such discrimination... of course they were younger less cultured people, so maybe that bit of exposure did them some good... I mean the food was certainly enough to change some minds as it hey maybe my biased ass sitting here complaining etc. is wrong because the food is so right.

When diversity is legislated out, then it becomes a culture trap and anything or anyone that isn't of the same culture is heavily discriminated against to keep it in some time warp of not changing... even when it is for the better, whether anyone realizes that or not out of whatever fear is holding someone back, whatever ignorance has taken root to attempt to try to understand.

Some say it is protecting a way of life... no it's control to force people to one way of life. That's not America in my opinion and if anyone disagrees that's fine but the statue of liberty doesn't... if anyone wants to chain her back up to a system of slavery then they are fighting for the wrong things.





Well, when the bathroom law was made it was due to special interest...

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE
Leave it to me to put it bluntly. Yes...everything said here is correct. You should have to identify yourself and prove who you are and that you have the right to vote. But lets make it even more simple.

If you can't get an ID of some acceptable type, you either shouldn't be voting or don't have the mental capacity TO be voting.

Who are you to judge who has the mental capacity to vote? Voting by design isn't an activity meant for just the intelligent or well informed. If you start excluding people based on mental capacity you are in essence creating a poll test. Are you in favor of those?

originally posted by: BigBrotherDarkness
In this country we are required one form of ID a social security number. Of course with identity fraud thats something you should ONLY share with who? Government agencies...

SSN's were never supposed to be a form of identification. They are very insecure, and if you were born before 1992 or so (the system was slightly changed in the early 90's) it's trivial to generate lists of valid name/SSN combinations. In fact the government even helps with this by publicly releasing the SSN's of deceased people.

Prior to the change, SSN's were handed out according to a predefined pattern. The first 3 numbers are a state/region ID, the second two numbers are a group order and are handed out in a certain order, and the last 4 numbers are basically the citizen number which are issued in order (meaning you can cross reference birthdays to narrow down a persons number). It's a very similar structure to credit cards actually. Anyways, what all of this means is that because people rarely move far from where they were born you can take lists of names and attach SSN's to them.

SSN's are very bad for ID, they can really only be used as a claim number. If using them in an ID the best thing you can do is ask the person for their SSN, use that to check a government database of the persons name, and then look at their ID, see if the names match, and see if the picture on the ID matches who is handing you the ID. Of course, you can do all of that with pretty much the same level of accuracy by cutting the SSN entirely, and comparing the ID number (such as a drivers license number) to the information for that number in the states database... that database even comes with a picture that should match what's on the ID.

a reply to: BigBrotherDarkness

No-Fee ID Card Program After January 1, 2014, you will be able to apply for a free NC identification card to be used for voting. To qualify, you will need to: Prove your age and identity. Prove your NC residency. Be registered to vote in North Carolina. Not have a valid driver license. This form of NC ID card will be valid for voting and for identification purposes only. You will apply using the same documents (proof of name, birth date, Social Security, and residency) as listed above.

www.dmv.org...

The damn thing is free. Much like getting out and voting, you do have to travel to the ID place, but then, you have to travel out to the polls to vote, so mobility should not be an issue.

Your reasons aren't valid.

a reply to: Aazadan

That is missing the point, the discussion is ultimately voting itself... not the ID that can hamper that process, place others over that process etc. it basically becomes a modern day poll tax.

a reply to: network dude

There are many people home bound, nursing home bound, hospital bound, that can't go get the "damned thing". Where is their right to vote? Oh they still have it... but not with such ID requirements.

See the issue? Of course that wont stop people from stealing their votes and slapping their name on the ballot they were last registered too. It's how dead people have kept on voting BTW.

Party affiliation gets counted this is where the system fails.

So register unaffiliated or independent... then how and who are they going to steal votes from?