An Honest question from an outsider....

Please enlighten a non American.

I know this is a surprise for some Americans on here, but there are some people in foreign lands that are allowed to use the internet in their near fascistic, communist prison state.

I'm sorry, I'm only joking. I'm also sorry for making yet another thread on Trump but I can't find this question answered quite as I'm asking it here. I thought this section was the best place to put it.

I actually wanted to understand one thing: why don't all these awful things about Donald Trump bother his supporters? I'm serious here, I desperately don't want this to be one of those cartoon-esque political mud slinging threads where the entrenched hyperbole easily defeats any actual political/ historical discussion. I'm serious on this bit, there's a trait in US media which so many people imitate where people turn the discussion into such exaggerations and side-taking that there is only a minsicule amount of actual content discussed. Statements like "Hillary is a fascist!" or "Trump is the new Hitler!", "The Dumbocrats"are spoken far more often than should ever be tolerated in adult discussion, so many people seem to talk like children and as if politics is a children's film with an obvious 'goodie' and an obvious 'baddie' and you simply pick your side and stick with it.

It's like all political debate in US mainstream media is an election campaign in action- P.R. spin, slogans and 'dirt' on people rather than policy, aims, theoretical political knowledge etc. This absolutely happens in all party political countries now but I find it near impossible to escape the shiny, sparkly P.R. rubbish to hear actual information in US media.

Now, the actual point. I've wondered it for so long but after seeing this article (www.alternet.org...) I thought I'd actually ask people on here. Now, I expect the inevitable "That's some Liberal website!" Firstly, when did the political term "Liberal" become a negative thing? The entire US was based fundamentally on civil liberty! But secondly and more importantly I don't care where it is from, it is the content which I want to ask about. I'll say it again, as a non US citizen I cannot vote, I'm not on any side here. I don't want political debate tennis! I've heard so many strange things said about Trump from his supporters which I just cannot get my head around:

-"He'll take down the rich elite" - I consider him to be the absolute archetype of rich/ business/ corporate elite! He was an inherited millionaire from his, let's say ethically questionable, father.

- "He tells it like it is!" - he is a self aggrandising attention seeker! I'm still waiting for that London postcode where police are "Scared to go to"! This populist (in terms of his audience) rubbish which he consistently comes out with is not straight talking! Plus there are several points on that article which are definitely not "telling it like it is".

- "He understands the poor!" - this is the man who used eminent domain to forcibly evict people from their homes so he could build larger casinos! Again on that site he shows no understanding of real life working wages or practices. He has been a seriously rich person since he was 0 years old, I've seen nothing from him which demonstrates any serious attempt to delve outside of his lavishness to see what happens in places without red velvet carpeting.

- "He's a business genius! A true entrepreneur!" - Again, inherited a fortune. His companies have gone bankrupt 4 times. Sometimes with him jumping ship just before it sinks to hand all the trouble to his employees and to attempt to escape the mark besmirching his record. Then we have the study that he would be far richer (Some say by $10 billion dollars) if he had simply left all his father's money to gain interest than investing it as he saw fit.

There are plenty more and I would guess you have all heard far more of them than I have. One other point (frankly this should be irrelevant), we all know the cringe worthy photos of politicians kissing babies to show how "Family orientated" they are, with a great deal of coverage in parts of America being focused on the personal lives of candidates and whether they're 'Trustworthy' in real life. When Trump first met Melania he apparently "Sent" his then wife to the toilets so he could ask for her phone number (apparently that's charming when you're a multi millionaire...); normally that sort of mildly sordid story gets lapped up by certain media organisations but for this one....nothing.

He has always seemed like a grown up spoilt brat (many stories seem to portray him as such) who has been moulded by sycophants into having an outrageously exaggerated opinion of himself. A Machiavellian narcissist who refuses to accept 'No' for an answer and will actively target with any means available to him anyone who does so.

I'm sure I'll get hammered for this thread, but I am serious here: why do these things not matter to his supporters? As an outsider, I just can't understand it. Obviously, he has used his media presence to effectively just run propaganda for himself- who knows how many of these common statements were originally planted by one of his P.R. team and caught on with other supporters.

I've said this before but I'll reiterate it. Trump is in the process of being politically an almost carbon copy of Silvio Berlusconi and his rise to power. Berlusconi decided after practically no political education before hand decided he wanted to used his vast personal wealth and array of media outlets to effectively saturate all political debate in Italy. This coupled with minor scandals and populist speeches got him into power. The two are remarkably similar in their campaigns.

So why do these things not matter to so many people? It is a question being asked around the world. Please could people step back from their entrenched support for either party and answer me honestly rather than simply insulting me for asking?

Thanks anyone who answers!

For one thing - don't believe everything that you hear.
The media often, well almost always, take things out of context and spin to meet their agenda.
If you research, almost every claim they are making against Trump can be proven as totally false.

Sure, there were a few times when he said things that were a little over the top.
But all in all he seems like he honestly wants to help make America better.

Now, let's take it one by one.

"He'll take down the rich elite"

Where did you hear that? Trump never ever said that. He never even implied it.

Trump said that he wants to help everyone in America improve their situation by improving the economy, fixing tax laws, fixing trade, increasing jobs through increased US manufacturing, making America safer, making America proud again, etc.

a reply to: yes4141

I actually wanted to understand one thing: why don't all these awful things about Donald Trump bother his supporters?

I think you missed a step. I think you first have to look into whether or not the accusations are based on facts or emotion based propaganda.

"He tells it like it is!"

Yes, yes he does. What is the problem with that?

Of course no one is totally correct 100% of the time.
But because he does not concern himself with political correctness or pandering, we always know what is on his mind, unlike most politicians.
And he is not afraid to expose corruption and incompetence. That scares the heck out of the establishment.

I'm gonna be honest about this so you can understand. I think Donald Trump is a Democrat ... so that should tell you what you need to know about me.

Donald Trump laid waste every Republican candidate who ran against him ... utter waste. No one came close.

This is why he should be president. Hillary had nothing to do with beating the Republican party. Donald did it all by himself ... well ... maybe with a LOT of help from the Left Wing Media.

Hillary would be like swallowing poison.

i don't know which was your worst mistake; criticizing Trump or criticizing the intelligence of his supporters, or worshippers.

and you're naive enough to enough to think this thread will actually debate Trump or his politics and not be reduced to childish banter and deflection to other politicians.

but I applaud your bravery.

I'm a Trump supporter and its not because of Trump as the man, but simply because of what is potentially at stake and the set up for the world's collective stage if he wins.

Here's your honest answer-

Due to the nature of our political culture that revolves around money and having the freedom to move money between corporations' pockets to lobbyist's pockets to be then placed into our politicians' pockets, we have arrived at a spot in our history that is surrounded by incompetence and greed.

This leads to propped up "choices" who are nothing more than hollowed out puppets filled with the rotting puss of our forefathers' dreams.

This and added to the fact that the worlds population is treated like weeds encroaching on a sacred heirloom crop of life extending honey blossoms that need to be pulled and tossed into the compost, keeps us all scrambling to filter the cold facts from the bills that are pilling up.

The end is near and the vicious lions have drawn closer, no longer afraid to be seen as the herd is now too weak to defend themselves.

"He understands the poor!"

First of all - that story you are repeating about the eminent domain eviction has been twisted beyond recognition.

There are many, many stories related from people who know Trump telling how he has helped people in many ways. He does this usually anonymously and wants no credit for it. Giuliani said that he is always helping New Yorkers when they are in trouble - law enforcement, fireman and many people in need.

Trump has created something like 34,000 jobs.

He has helped people who wanted to start their own businesses through his connections and support.

Trump has said over and over that his goal is to help the poor by creating jobs. That is what a true leader does. A true leader does not promise "free stuff". He has also said that of course there are some unfortunate people, such as disabled, who will always need welfare. But he has also promoted the work ethic, and that the answer to societies poor is more jobs, more manufacturing, and a stable economy.

"He's a business genius! A true entrepreneur!"

He did start out with a 1 million dollar loan, but he turned that into billions.
Look at what he built:
www.trump.com...
www.trump.com...
www.trump.com...
www.trump.com...

He has had HUNDREDS of successful businesses, employed thousands of people, and kept contractors in work for a long time.

Those 4 Bankruptcies that you heard of? Those were 4 smaller endeavors out of his hundreds. You might not understand US business, but in the US, bankruptcies are often used as a way of closing a company while ensuring the shareholders get their fair share. It has nothing to do with going broke. Sometimes some endeavors do not work out. But when you have 4 small closures out of hundreds of successful ones, that is a pretty good track record!

I suggest you watch this.
Eric Trump discusses why his father wanted to be president.

a reply to: yes4141

As a non-American, what are your impressions of Mrs. Clinton?

This is America. We are loud, boisterous and proud. If you've seen any American western films, it might help you to understand the people. Rules and etiquette are for the mealy-mouthed.

Americans don't expect perfectionism but do expect people to be true to themselves and if that means stepping on toes, calling names and show-downs (that's called our conventions) then that's Americanism.

We battle every day on every level as hard as we can and in the end will lick our wounds and accept the outcome til the next battle is to be won.

We certainly don't place the best people in all positions all the time but they are given an opportunity to speak freely. have marches and to gather freely to discuss the issues of the day without fear of being bombed or arrested.

We choose our own way and surely it must be different from yours or you wouldn't seem so surprised at our way of life.

We choose our system and have regretted many times our devices used, our leaders and our own choices. But the thing is, we can make those changes; we are free to do so.

We simply have a different experience and culture which we are very proud of.

There is one commonality: politicians everywhere are not the best examples of their people but they are the ones willing to do the job.

I can't think of one leader or leaders internationally with perfect morals much less perfect humans or citizens.
You take the good with the bad and hope and pray the good outweighs the damage of the bad.

Keep in mind, if you arn't American, you will not understand our culture especially if you attempt to compare it to your own in which you have been bred.

Just as we Americans don't understand how the British parliament yells at each other, or dictatorships are accepted with public hangings and beheadings, unless you have been raised as an American, with football, apple pie et. al. you will not understand our way of ife.

Alot of times as an American sitting down with fellow citizens, you realize even if they don't say or know it, but they miss democracy. We're so tired of this oligarchy our cynisim actually humors the idea of him as president. Whether you vote or support him there is a deep disdain for both parties and these crooks that get bought. There is no answer to your question for avid supporters but if you needed am answer on how he is at where he is, I hope that cleared it up.

There is a segment of American society who's imagined self worth is predicated on their being the "true or right citizen".
You will see this demonstrated with their insufferable usage of the term "Real American" when contrasting themselves from other citizens political/social views.

They imagine that only their belief in God & Country is valid & consider all "others" to be less than.
Given Trumps affinity for identity politics they believe that he will restore them to their perceived social status.

Basically you're witnessing America's dirty little secret of homegrown fascism rearing it's diseased head once again.

Look up Smedely Butler, Prescott Bush & the roots of American fascism. (WW2 era)
Large racial component embedded in that history as well, just as in Germany.

Political leaders can always gin-up blame for the "other" during time of economic hardship.
Since our country is still trying to recover from the Republican War criminals (Cheney / Bush) who bankrupted our country in their failed wars it's easy to find those willing to blame anyone but themselves for their hardship.

Most of the same people who support a demagogue like Trump are the same who cheered the lies that led to wars that trashed their economy.
It's just a vicious circle of stupid.

Hopefully good sense will prevail for most Americans & they wont elect the carnival barker indebted to the Russian Mob.

K~

Because about half of all Americans think politics is the same as a football game and their team has to win. The vast majority of American adults haven't read an entire book, even fiction, since they left high school and they probably faked reading the ones they were assigned back then. Because the average IQ is 100 and when you add fluoridated water to that (proven a neurologic toxin but hey, lets just leave it in the water anyways...) then the average American IQ is probably 95 or so, which is actually pretty dumb. The American educational system is still geared for people who lived on the farm and needed summers off to help with the chores, and only a minority ever get an education that would be considered passable in Europe in math or the sciences. Because the vast majority of Americans believe in a fairy tale Santa Claus-god and couldn't think their way out of a religious conundrum box if their souls depended on it. Donald Trump is just this year's incarnation of that god, who will take care of everything and let them go back to their teevees and beer and cars feeling 'safe' again. Trouble is, he's stupendously, spectacularly dangerous but since they never read history, they can't fathom that, either. And if the best thing possible happens and The Donald is knocked down off his pedestal, well, that would be fine too. Like in Wrestling. Rah Rah Rah.

originally posted by: odzeandennz
I'm a Trump supporter and its not because of Trump as the man, but simply because of what is potentially at stake and the set up for the world's collective stage if he wins.

I'm intrigued to know what you mean by this. Please do elaborate, thanks!

a reply to: aethertek

If you can name one country better than America I'd love to hear.

Yea, we have our problems and especially economic disturbances right now, we will always be a work in progress but, despite your description of our nation, we are still freer than any place on earth. And yes, I have studied this all my life.

Maybe you have been reading the internet and its ability to totally desecrate America because WE CAN.

Not many other countries have that freedom.

a reply to: yes4141

Everything you said about Trump is right.

a reply to: yes4141

The best way I can explain it is Donald is "selling the dream." We all lived in a better time in America from Reagan to Bush to even Clinton(Bill) as far as financial opportunity. He gives me hope, the only hope, that we can "make America Great again." sounds cheesy right?! Truthfully he is the only recent candidate that sells that dream. Does he say dumb a#$ sh$! Yes. Ultimately though I thing we need radical change and a non politically correct POTUS. He sells that well. Will he produce better than the alternative imho!