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An Honest question from an outsider....

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posted on Jul, 28 2016 @ 02:07 PM
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originally posted by: SisterDelirium

originally posted by: BlueAjah
a reply to: SisterDelirium

Trump has shown himself to be a leader, but I would not say he is authoritarian.
Somehow people got that impression - from the biased media.

But I have heard some higher level Republicans come out one after the other saying that after meeting with him, they are surprised to find that he is actually listening, and working with them. In other words, they just had to get to know him instead of jumping to conclusions.

Others interviewed who have worked with him say the same thing. A couple of people in the convention said that as well. (I remember the one was the general manager of one of his winery, and his daughter said that, and I believe someone else.) They said that he listens carefully, and makes his decisions after weighing information from those he trusts and respects.



If he's such a nice guy and thoughtful statesman, he's certainly hidden it well.


Being nice isn't a prerequisite to one of the highest leadership positions in the world, that's for certain. His character and experience is a sign of leadership by any measure.

As far as being a statesman, he hasn't quite had the opportunity to prove his statesmanship yet. If he gets in, and after however many years, only then can we conclude if his presidency was a success or utter failure. I am willing to criticize and ridicule Trump if and when he fails, and also will admit how wrong I was for defending and supporting him.

Until then, all we can do is determine whether he wants to try, and enforce that with evidence of his successes and failures in life, which are astronomical.




posted on Jul, 28 2016 @ 02:13 PM
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originally posted by: MamaJ
a reply to: SisterDelirium




If he's such a nice guy and thoughtful statesman


He's a salesman. He can't bull# a bull#ter though lol

I see right through him and his loud mouth.

Let it be known I can't stand Killary either. They are both an insult to my intelligence. This whole entire charade is frankly. I am over it all. Why do people even think their vote counts? It's insane.


then leave, nobody is stopping you.....move to a country where you feel your vote counts...you'll be much happier by not having to worry about the American political process.



posted on Jul, 28 2016 @ 03:43 PM
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His character and experience is a sign of leadership?

He was born into money and into a game he could never properly lose. That's leadership? Maybe for a monarch.



posted on Jul, 28 2016 @ 03:45 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

My intro was an oxy-moronic joke. I wasn't serious, just a joke on those from the US who think all other nations live shackled in their shacks.

Funny you talk about the word 'Liberal'. It's one of the things which made me make this thread. The rest of the world has an understanding of the word which is completely different to contemporary use of the word in the USA. It irritates me so much to have people use it as an insult. Not just for the madness of implying that they are in fact an "Illiberal"!

....I'll go there then. My biggest problem with using such a generically politically centrist word as a euphemism for "Left wing loon" then that can potentially shift the entire political dynamic and discussion to the right on the spectrum. That pretty much isolates any viable party to either being right wing or the milder centre-right party (I know the left/ spectrum is a bit old fashioned but for the purposes of this point I think it's worthy).

If Liberal is seen (whether purposely engineered that way or it just happens through chance) as "Left wing" then that society is effectively limiting itself to conservative politics, with anything else being written off before it happens. Sanders was a peculiarity from the outside- I didn't think a self proclaimed social democrat would even be allowed to wear a suit on television let alone get as far as he did!

@MamaJ - no doubt he has a façade that he refuses to allow to be breached.

I asked this in another thread- there is real venom against Hillary and I'm not entirely sure why. Personally, I think she simply represents the status quo and that angers people- the rest of it seems to be finding reasons to back up the premise rather than the other way round.

@tow69 - I won't comment on the pledge of allegiance. I feel that may upset people (brief summary: it's creepy and not fit for a modern democracy). I should say that an oath when actually joining an organisation is a different matter though!

@introvert - that's the point, I've read many pages and excerpts about him and what he supposedly believes. I wanted to know why his supporters weren't bothered by some of the bad bits. Bits which would burn most people's chances of presidency years before it started- he is obviously different: personally I think this is simply personal wealth and opportunistic use of media outlets which he has an influence on.

@Ajah - how many people bitch on their billionaire friend? Do you think he's fine with being challenged? Disagreed with? Sent to a poor quality hair restoration specialist?* I've noticed the way he gains support from his disgraceful treatment of people in Scotland- he somehow gained support from the council and had any dissenters removed from their position in that council! He cared more about building his fancy golf resort than people who had lived there for 30 years!

*Definitely NOT a joke about a certain passage in a book.



posted on Jul, 28 2016 @ 04:26 PM
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I`ve never seen trumps reality show so that makes it easy for me to be impartial, I think a lot of people have seen his show and judge him based on that show, all the while forgetting that it was a T.V. show.Like all T.V. shows it was scripted to gain the highest ratings possible ratings equal money.



posted on Jul, 28 2016 @ 05:05 PM
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a reply to: Tardacus

I've also not seen it, Alan Sugar is unlike-able enough in the original version! Can't stand that stuff though- the whole point of the programme is to make that person appear to be a business genius: without that idea there is no programme as there's no one to impress with all the total bollocks I've seen from adverts flooding the BBC.



posted on Jul, 28 2016 @ 05:11 PM
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a reply to: yes4141

Let me first suggest you read many posts by each poster - - to understand where they stand, believe, etc.

You can't really judge opinions to your question - - if you don't understand the individual poster and their position/leaning.

There are some posters who actually try to think on both sides of a question to come up with a logical response.

Look for them.



posted on Jul, 28 2016 @ 05:37 PM
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Here in the USA we still believe that there is a difference between our establishment democrats and republicans. A lie that is shouted out from
propaganda machines like MSNBC and FOX News and one that we parrot here.

Economics, War, Drone strikes, Taxes, NSA spying, Whistleblower protections, Government transparency, Bailouts, Militarization of police, Empire building, Colonialism, Government size, Immigration. Not of these will be any noticibly different under Clinton or Trump.

You may get a few environmental things, LGBT protections, maybe some Christian preferential laws, evolution science and education changes but really there is no difference.

And here in the USA, We're all too stupid to realize it.
edit on 28-7-2016 by amazing because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 28 2016 @ 05:44 PM
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I have a brother that reminds me of Trump (and yes he is voting for him).

I describe him as a train going forward on a straight track, but he never looks sideways.



posted on Jul, 28 2016 @ 06:21 PM
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a reply to: Annee

I understand your point, but I really did want just a direct answer. "Many reports state X happened, why does this not diminish your support?" that the point I was trying to find.

I'm not asking for an overview of the current presidential campaign. Just an explanation of why certain things don't shake their support for this person when it almost certainly would alter their perception of so many other people in the same position.

@amazing - Yes I wrote about that in an earlier reply. Unfortunately this sort of idealogical 'monopolising' of major political parties is happening in many countries right now- presumably because those people/ groups which donate money (for influence) are the same people 'donating' to each opposing party.



posted on Jul, 28 2016 @ 07:12 PM
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originally posted by: yes4141
a reply to: Annee

I understand your point, but I really did want just a direct answer. "Many reports state X happened, why does this not diminish your support?" that the point I was trying to find.


I'm a Globalist. Kind of a progressive, centrist, globalist. (legitimate, not the conspiracy NWO)

"Make America Great Again" is stupid to me. You can't go backwards.

We are on some insignificant rock in a vast universe. For us not to work together as a whole is just insane.

So, Hillary has the most real "hands on" experience, including foreign experience. That's my choice and why.

Pale Blue Dot: www.youtube.com...
edit on 28-7-2016 by Annee because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 30 2016 @ 08:38 AM
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This is a few answers replied to people properly as I only wrote who it was addressed to rather than replying properly!

a reply to: Justso
I simply asked why these things weren't a factor for his supporters- I just wanted the straightforward honest reason. It's definitely not an attack on the US!



If you can name one country better than America I'd love to hear.


See this ^^ is a huge problem to me. You have literally just written in a long post about how you shouldn't judge another country if you don't fully understand the life, culture, politics et al. and have lived in that country yet you are making a judgement about every single country on Earth(!). Even more though, you are treating geo-politics as a sport, a game in the playground or a pissing contest.
"Best" - you hear words like this all the time in rallys. It is just the public speaking version of fishing in a bathtub. You know: you say generic, meaningless phrases/ words like this and get an automatic cheer from the crowd in the guise of 'Patriotism'. Best could mean healthcare. murder rate, crime rate, gun crime, distribution of wealth, population density, GDP etc.

Words and phrases like that are EXACTLY what I meant in the first post of this thread. They are cheap, easy ways of getting cheers and votes. They don't employ paramedics or better qualified teachers and so on.



posted on Jul, 30 2016 @ 12:09 PM
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a reply to: yes4141



@aethertek - of course, demagogues rise in all parts of the world in bad times; it's simplistic, often contradictory, easy and frighteningly effective. I'm still amazed that the "One nation under God" which was introduced in the 50s (unless I'm mistaken?) hasn't been removed. It is after all supposed to be a conspicuously secular democratic republic!


You're quite right that religulous nonsense was added during the dark days of Mcarthyism, another of Americas brushes with fascism.

Surprisingly for a country that prides itself on "individualism" there's a strong streak of adoration of authoritarians.
Look just recently how many on the conservative political spectrum have been praising Putin & longing to have their own "strong" man daddy to take care of them.

As for the god nonsense, we're working on that.
Every year the religulous affiliated grows less & less.
As I said it's a vicious circle of ingrained stupid in this country that need be rooted out.

K~



posted on Jul, 30 2016 @ 01:31 PM
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originally posted by: Snarl
Hillary would be like swallowing poison.


They are both poison. The best comparison I have heard is: "Trump is arsenic, Hillary is cyanide."

Basically neither one are good options, but Trump isn't as harmful in the short run. America can take relatively more Trump before it's fatal.



posted on Jul, 30 2016 @ 01:45 PM
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originally posted by: Justso
This is America. We are loud, boisterous and proud. If you've seen any American western films, it might help you to understand the people. Rules and etiquette are for the mealy-mouthed.


Maybe not so much 'etiquette' as the over-saturation of political correctness, micro-aggression and grievance mongering in our society today.

Americans don't expect perfectionism but do expect people to be true to themselves and if that means stepping on toes, calling names and show-downs (that's called our conventions) then that's Americanism.


We choose our system and have regretted many times our devices used, our leaders and our own choices. But the thing is, we can make those changes; we are free to do so.


For the Republican side anyway, we have had 8 years of GOP saying 'give us the congress and we'll change the course of the nation' then they do not deliver. Trump is an electorate-sized middle finger to the RNC establishment.


Keep in mind, if you arn't American, you will not understand our culture especially if you attempt to compare it to your own in which you have been bred.


I look at it this way: America's ancestry is rooted in people who didn't like the status quo of their home nations and had enough motivation to try their luck and ideas in a place where there were less obstacles to success. We've been raised on stories of independence, risk taking, entrepreneurship and boots-straps. This is not to say other countries don't have that at all, but it's part of our foundation and development and much concentrated for a young nation.
edit on 30-7-2016 by Teikiatsu because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 30 2016 @ 01:54 PM
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originally posted by: aethertek
Look just recently how many on the conservative political spectrum have been praising Putin & longing to have their own "strong" man daddy to take care of them.


That's reading too much into it. After 8 years of a waffling President who shows no love of his country it's only natural that people start making comparisons. If Obama wasn't so non-American (aka globalist) and prone to apologize to anyone for anything that America may have done it wouldn't be as much of an issue.

Putin is an tyrannical ex?-KGB #$$, there is no question. No one wants that in the USA. But he can be admired in that the decisions he makes are unapologetically for the betterment of the country he loves. He is still a diplomatic opponent (that Obama made jokes about 4 years ago.)


As for the god nonsense, we're working on that.
Every year the religulous affiliated grows less & less.
As I said it's a vicious circle of ingrained stupid in this country that need be rooted out.


Pride cometh before the fall. Every time the secular folks think religion is being 'weeded out', the faithful come back stronger than before. Maybe if the secular folks would just chill out so we can all "live and let live" and "do unto others as we want done unto ourselves" we'd get along better.



posted on Jul, 30 2016 @ 03:17 PM
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a reply to: yes4141

I am not an American.

Your question seems legit but to be fair, why focus only on why Americans that support Trump continue to so when the press is fully of dirty stories about him and ignore morally repugnant Hillary?


originally posted by: Snarl
I'm gonna be honest about this so you can understand. I think Donald Trump is a Democrat.

Donald Trump laid waste every Republican candidate who ran against him ... utter waste. No one came close.

This is why he should be president. Hillary had nothing to do with beating the Republican party. Donald did it all by himself ... well ... maybe with a LOT of help from the Left Wing Media.



Trump's masquerading as a Republican? So no matter how you vote, the result will be another Democratic government?



Hillary would be like swallowing poison.


Agreed. But if Trump is really a Democrat, is him joining the Republican party a ruse to keep the Republicans out or to keep a woman from becoming 'leader of the free world (whatever that means)'?




originally posted by: Teikiatsu

Putin is an tyrannical ex?-KGB #$$, there is no question




originally posted by: aethertek

As for the god nonsense, we're working on that.
Every year the religulous affiliated grows less & less.
As I said it's a vicious circle of ingrained stupid in this country that need be rooted out.



originally posted by: TeikiatsuPride cometh before the fall. Every time the secular folks think religion is being 'weeded out', the faithful come back stronger than before. Maybe if the secular folks would just chill out so we can all "live and let live" and "do unto others as we want done unto ourselves" we'd get along better.


The KGB ruthlessly oppressed religion in the USSR and here we are, 30 years after Perestroika and a devout Orthodox Christian resides in the Kremlin!

Whoever ends up using your tax dollars pimping the Whitehouse their way, this election just looks like a sick joke.



posted on Jul, 30 2016 @ 03:48 PM
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a reply to: teapot

That's fair, but just not the question I was asking- whether regarded as a positive or negative Hillary Clinton has at least got a career in politics where she has functioned in key positions, again that can be a pro or con but you must surely accept that a controversial multi millionaire who comes across as extremely egotistical and assured of his own excellence without any experience or apparent in depth knowledge of politics or even the wider world is a more apparent question!

It just seems more interesting to me.



posted on Jul, 30 2016 @ 09:35 PM
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originally posted by: yes4141
a reply to: teapot

That's fair, but just not the question I was asking- whether regarded as a positive or negative Hillary Clinton has at least got a career in politics where she has functioned in key positions,


Can you list anything she accomplished in those 'key positions'?

How exactly is a 'career in politics' a benefit when it is government that has been dragging the country downhill?


again that can be a pro or con but you must surely accept that a controversial multi millionaire


Hillary Clinton is a multi-millionate too, and that is before you add in Bill's wealth.

How did the Clintons 'earn' their cash vs. Trump earning his?


who comes across as extremely egotistical and assured of his own excellence


And Hillary Clinton is supposedly the epitome of humility? Especially for accomplishing nothing noteworthy? And she isn't controversial?


without any experience or apparent in depth knowledge of politics


Politics, no. But this is an anti-incumbency election year. Lack of political savvy is a bonus.

What Trump *does* have experience with is regulations, bureaucracy, taxation and red tape. As a private business owner of hundreds of businesses he deals with them every day. My vote for him is in the hopes that he cuts deep into the non-elected, unaccountable section of the government (federal bureaucracy and agencies) and slims them down.


or even the wider world is a more apparent question!


*shrug* We're not electing a UN Ambassador.


It just seems more interesting to me.


The USA is an enigma to most of the rest of the world. It's okay, we get that a lot.



posted on Jul, 30 2016 @ 09:49 PM
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a reply to: Teikiatsu



Maybe if the secular folks would just chill out so we can all "live and let live"

I know right if only those secular folk would mind their own business & stop telling other people how to live their life or harping why their life is sinful & your going to hell cuz your gay & you don't believe in god or the right god, gee if only.

Damn another one with the projection.

As far as the rights unhealthy prush (new word-political crush) with Putin, I just love your BS "Thanks Obama" excuse.
LOL
Nothing's ever your fault, can't even take responsibility for your own actions & feelings, nooope, "Obama did it".

K~



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