An Honest question from an outsider....

a reply to: yes4141

These are legitimate questions, but upon closer inspection, and in comparison with billions and billions of people, they are simply untrue. It helps to put them into context first.

Frank Trump, Donald's father, died in 1999, decades after Donald had made his fortune.

Out of over 500 businesses, a few of them went bankrupt. Compare that success rate to anyone else's in the world and you'll have an answer.

Appealing to the rich and poor is a fallacy, or in other words, an error in thought. If he cannot know the poor, then you cannot know the rich for the very same reason, or in other words, you can't understand people like Trump.

No one said he would take down the elite. He wants to take out special interests in politics.

Trump greatest work is his master trolling, and you all are falling for it. At the very least, his campaign is exposing everyone who is swayed by a mistruth, and led to their tribalisms by it.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

So do you not feel when the elite are doing good so are the people below them? Not starting an argument just don't quite understand what you are trying to say.

Many Humans on this planet at times display follower traits... Some are Leaders, not all leaders have the best interest of the followers in mind.

The followers unknowingly - unintentionally at times follow the leaders, regardless of the leaders true intentions.

This may not only be a Human trait?

a reply to: BlueAjah

Sorry, maybe I should've stated this more clearly. These are things I have heard/ read many times from his supporters about him. Which is why I ask the question, why are these things believed when I can see no evidence for them but merely a marketing process.

Trump said that he wants to help everyone in America improve their situation by improving the economy, fixing tax laws, fixing trade, increasing jobs through increased US manufacturing, making America safer, making America proud again, etc.

But that is generic political campaigning- almost every candidate will say "X, Y and Z will all be improved! Clap please...." (Maybe the last bit isn't normally vocalised!). This "Make America Great Again!" is literally meaningless, it neither specifies a process/ method nor does it state when this 'greatness' was which he's striving to get back to! It's pure P.R. without even a pretence of political process/ ideals!

That scares the heck out of the establishment.

In what sense is he not part of "The Establishment"?

Sorry, but this is going down the normal roads which I wanted to avoid, I think you gave your answer at the beginning: that you simply don't believe the stories about him which is fine, that's your personal view which is the answer I wanted!

I simply want to hear the honest reasons why all these terrible tales don't damage people's confidence in him.

E.g. Is being born rich and still being rich really the only qualification needed to be president of the US? I'm serious here- his "Business Talent" is something I hear alot on why he'd be a good president! Making cut throat self serving decisions which are purposefully damaging competitors is a good background for that role?

What is the eminent domain truth?

Trump has created something like 34,000 jobs.

He owns large corporations- that's not philanthropic!

Yes the "Small business loan of $1 million dollars from my father". Let's not pretend that's all he had to play with though please! He got far more and then inherited substantially more money than that.

Again, I really don't want these tennis matches, I just wanted to know why people weren't worried by these things!

@ EmmanuelGoldstein:

This leads to propped up "choices" who are nothing more than hollowed out puppets filled with the rotting puss of our forefathers' dreams.

See this is the thing which makes the most sense- complete disillusionment with the status quo. That terrible catchy, three chord stuff whi- Never mind. I think part of the problem there is this complete monopoly of the 2 party system. Many seem to think that they're being influenced by the same people (those with big money) which loses confidence in the whole system. Coming from a country which has just announced plans to reduce corporation tax by YET ANOTHER 5% I can certainly empathise!

So to use Trump as a protest vote I can sort of understand...sort of. But things are serious now, protest votes get serious at a certain point and no one wants to regret which box they crossed.


@JustSo - I simply asked why these things weren't a factor for his supporters- I just wanted the straightforward honest reason. It's definitely not an attack on the US!

If you can name one country better than America I'd love to hear.

See this ^^ is a huge problem to me. You have literally just written in a long post about how you shouldn't judge another country if you don't fully understand the life, culture, politics et al. and have lived in that country yet you are making a judgement about every single country on Earth(!). Even more though, you are treating geo-politics as a sport, a game in the playground or a pissing contest.
"Best" - you hear words like this all the time in rallys. It is just the public speaking version of fishing in a bathtub. You know: you say generic, meaningless phrases/ words like this and get an automatic cheer from the crowd in the guise of 'Patriotism'. Best could mean healthcare. murder rate, crime rate, gun crime, distribution of wealth, population density, GDP etc.

Words and phrases like that are EXACTLY what I meant in the first post of this thread. They are cheap, easy ways of getting cheers and votes. They don't employ paramedics or better qualified teachers and so on.

@bbarkow - I thought it was a poor idea to have Bill speak at the latest event- similarly a poor idea to reiterate her own gender. She should surely simply concentrate on what she wants to achieve as president rather than extraneous matters! That's a bit brief sorry, I'm trying to answer everyone!

@aethertek - of course, demagogues rise in all parts of the world in bad times; it's simplistic, often contradictory, easy and frighteningly effective. I'm still amazed that the "One nation under God" which was introduced in the 50s (unless I'm mistaken?) hasn't been removed. It is after all supposed to be a conspicuously secular democratic republic!

Apologies for the long post and missing anyone out. I really don't want a "Mine is bigger/ richer/ has more stars" type thing!

He did not inherit his wealth. He did get access to a great education and did get access to a high dollar loan through his father but that is not his fault no more than Prince William being born a prince. His father died not that long ago, maybe 15-20 years or so...no way he could have inherited all that. His father was still alive.

Main thing to understand is he took that 1M loan and turned it into billions. That is like taking a donkey cart and turning it into a space shuttle. Not easy to do, almost nobody on the planet can do it. He did file for corporate bankruptcy but not personal. He did it I believe 4 times. He has also started something like 90 businesses so that is a very good track record. You can't win them all but he won most of his investments. Even Warren Buffet who is clouted as a financial genius also filed for corporate bankruptcy. It happens to the best of them.

The US government uses imminent domain all the time. That situation was one person who actually ended up losing a lot of money. She could have bought a nicer home, lived a good life but she refused. In the end she lost out big time. Even the US government does not offer to take care of people that well. She was a stubborn person and she never moved. She stayed there surrounded by a loud casino. Again, she never moved.

The wall is needed. People who don't think so don't live near the problem. I do. People living here for over 20 years illegally and never filing for citizenship. Does that happen in your country? It happens in my town. These people get welfare, never have to serve jury duty, never have to pay the same taxes but get all these things along with protection. It's not right. Now they want free healthcare. Notice they never talk about wanting to serve jury duty.

Banning Muslims. It's unfortunate but they have to be checked out much better. These random attacks will get worse the longer we don't deal with it. The religion has been hijacked. That's not racist either that is reality around the world. One religion is causing an enormous amount of grief and terror. It's time to deal with it.

The middle and upper middle need tax breaks. They are getting crushed in the US. These are the people that move the economy, they spend, create jobs. They are not spending due to the high taxes. Trump is the only one that is going to lower their taxes. Everyone else wants to raise them more including Republicans. Insane. So the rich and poor pay nothing or next to it and the middle and upper middle get slammed. That needs to stop.

a reply to: yes4141

I actually wanted to understand one thing: why don't all these awful things about Donald Trump bother his supporters? I'm serious here

I wish I had an answer for you. A feeling of powerlessness, blind hate and a lack of better options?

Truthfully? Because I'm making lemonade yet again this election cycle.

But the only serious alternative is a woman who will continue on where we are going. She is no liberal in the classical sense. Today the meaning of liberal is so far twisted from what the Founders of this country fought for and identified with that if they were here today, they wouldn't recognize it at all as anything they believed in.

The American left has a habit of rebranding itself and co-opting words to suit its needs which are very authoritarian and totalitarian. That might be as someone from a self-described "near fascistic, communist prison state" you think she is easier to identify with.

Personally, I'd rather walk over broken glass and eat it than continue on down the path she and her party are taking us.

I honestly don't know where Trump would go, but at least there is a chance he might go somewhere better.

I personally do not like Hillary nor do I like Trump.

Being this thread is about Trump I will give an opinion but of course it's just that... an opinion.

Trump is an actor, he is a business man, he's rich, he represents "hate", he isn't a fan of women probably because of his marriage history, and I can go on.

He has always looked out for number one and for this reason he has billions.... he isn't humble at all and other world leaders wouldn't get along with such a hot head.

Here is what other actors say about their fellow actor. www.amny.com...

Actor Samuel L. Jackson and Trump had a short Twitter feud in January over whether or not they had played golf together. Jackson said in an interview with Rhapsody Magazine that Trump had signed him up as a member of one of his golf clubs without his knowledge, and then sent him a bill. He also said he "would never say" he and Trump were "buddies," but they did play golf together. He added that Trump is an "interesting character," "more P.T. Barnum than politician" and that he is a better golfer than Trump because he doesn't cheat. Trump quickly responded on Twitter, denying that he even knew Jackson and said, "to best of my knowledge haven't played golf w/him." Jackson then posted a picture of the bill from Trump's golf club on Instagram, with the caption, "A bill from the guy that doesn't know me & never golfed with me! I'm gonna Block his a-- too!"

Now with all that said let me remind you I don't like Killary... I mean Hillary either.

We are forced to vote for one of the two evils. It's all a charade and I don't want to play.

We truly don't even have a vote, they just make us think we do and everyone continues to drink the Kool Aid thinking their lesser evil will actually change the way things are.

We are all slaves to a system and this won't change because then the rich like Trump and Hillary wouldn't get richer.

Because I believe the world is becoming so sinister and America is about to fall hard, I'm sure the first woman, Hillary, will indeed get the presidency and all will blamed on the woman as in Genesis. "Time" is coming full circle.

Because trump is the only candidate focusing on the important issues facing the country.

america is not a prosperous or safe country anymore we don`t have the luxury of being able to put social issues and other feel good programs as top priorities.For a country that is 19 trillion dollars in debt it is irresponsible for any candidate to be promising more "free" stuff without explaining where the money is going to come from to pay for this "free" stuff. 4 more years of fiddling while rome burns may push us over the cliff.

so, while trump isn`t the perfect candidate he is the only candidate focusing on the most critical issues facing the country.

a reply to: Tardacus

I am a Realtor and love to sell homes!!

Trump... now he is a great salesman by profession too. You can speak with people like him in Real Estate offices and car lots and understand they are out to sell and close the deal no matter what they have to tell you in order for you to buy.

I am not comfortable with a salesman who knows how to shoot the bs being a leader who I am supposed to trust. I trust a sales man to sell me on an idea... nothing more.

You can't bull# a bull#ter.

The majority of the people I know or meet in real life (as opposed to online) do not like him. The trouble is, many also don't like Hillary. Thanks to the two party duopoly, most people are holding their nose and voting for either Hillary or Trump as a vote against the person they think is most likely to destroy the country.

Money pretty well buys our political and legal processes. Want justice? Want your voice heard? Want a good education? Want good healthcare? Better have the Benjamins to back that desire.

I'm voting for Gary Johnson, which, I've been told, is throwing my vote away.

Why?

Because I'm pretty sure the other two options represent evil incarnate.

a reply to: yes4141

We are tired of hearing what the establishment thinks we want to hear

It is so refreshing to hear someone say it like it is....

Hillary and the rest want nothing more than to turn our county into... well SLAVES to their system to be honest

and like someone stated, we Americans are fighters and their status quo just does not work anymore

She and the rest have been working very hard over the last 8 years to take away our freedoms that has been paid for in FULL with American blood, and as a Veteran I can't and wont stand idly by and watch our county be torn apart by those that don't seem to share the same vision for America as it's citizens do.

We demand - Free Speech
We demand - Our rights against illegal search and seizure
We demand - Our right to bear arms

Just to name a few.

(They) meaning Hillary and the rest took the very same oath as I did when I raised my right hand the day I joined the Army

To protect and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies foreign and domestic.

Hillary has become a true domestic enemy of our constitution

Oaths (to defend the US Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic) are aimed not at enemies in general, but are aimed specifically at enemies of the Constitution itself. The Oath basically imples: “If you attempt to distort, subvert or in any way threaten the US Constitution, you are the enemy.”

And because of this ONE SIMPLE fact I am with TRUMP - I want America GREAT again.

a reply to: SisterDelirium

One of my family members met someone the other day who has known Trump personally for over 20 years.
He said that Trump is a REALLY nice guy in person.

Everyone who I have heard interviewed who knows him in person says the same thing - he is a nice guy.

The media has tried to find people he knows who do not like him, and as far as I know, they have failed.
The interviewed his butler, hoping to get dirt, and when the butler only had nice things to say, they cut him off.
The media tried to put out a hit piece on him using women he has known, by twisting their words, and these women came to Trump's defense to expose the manipulated hit piece.

a reply to: yes4141

I don't believe you are going to get an honest answer that can show you what Trump is really like. There are too many people on this site that are emotionally invested in Trump and have lost their ability to look at this issue objectively. They have been propagandized.

I'm also not going to tell you what I think about Trump. Go do the research and figure it out on your own. That is the only way you can be confident you have a decent grasp on who and what Trump is.

Much of what Trump is saying is harsh but it is the reality people in the US either don't want to admit or they are generally not informed about issues that do not effect them.

I live near the border and it's bad. If one does not live near the border they won't understand it. Lots of gang activity, senseless killings, theft you name it. They don't care about becoming a citizen. Why do that when you don't have to do it. You are free to roam back and forth anytime you please.

Nobody really wants Muslims banned but something has to be done on checking them out in more detail. These attacks are getting worse by radicals, not just here but around the globe and all it take is a couple of radicals to kill a couple of hundred people. Like I said, many will not understand it until it has a personal effect on their lives. At that point they get it.

originally posted by: BlueAjah
a reply to: SisterDelirium

One of my family members met someone the other day who has known Trump personally for over 20 years.
He said that Trump is a REALLY nice guy in person.

Everyone who I have heard interviewed who knows him in person says the same thing - he is a nice guy.

The media has tried to find people he knows who do not like him, and as far as I know, they have failed.
The interviewed his butler, hoping to get dirt, and when the butler only had nice things to say, they cut him off.
The media tried to put out a hit piece on him using women he has known, by twisting their words, and these women came to Trump's defense to expose the manipulated hit piece.

I find that hard to believe. Maybe in day-to-day interactions, he's all right. But, I still don't think he (or Hillary) are the good administrators this country needs.

What we have in both are authoritarians, backed by money, and convinced they know what's best for the people. Whatever their motivations or however nice they are to the help, I don't care.

a reply to: SisterDelirium

Trump has shown himself to be a leader, but I would not say he is authoritarian.
Somehow people got that impression - from the biased media.

But I have heard some higher level Republicans come out one after the other saying that after meeting with him, they are surprised to find that he is actually listening, and working with them. In other words, they just had to get to know him instead of jumping to conclusions.

Others interviewed who have worked with him say the same thing. A couple of people in the convention said that as well. (I remember the one was the general manager of one of his winery, and his daughter said that, and I believe someone else.) They said that he listens carefully, and makes his decisions after weighing information from those he trusts and respects.

originally posted by: BlueAjah
a reply to: SisterDelirium

Trump has shown himself to be a leader, but I would not say he is authoritarian.
Somehow people got that impression - from the biased media.

But I have heard some higher level Republicans come out one after the other saying that after meeting with him, they are surprised to find that he is actually listening, and working with them. In other words, they just had to get to know him instead of jumping to conclusions.

Others interviewed who have worked with him say the same thing. A couple of people in the convention said that as well. (I remember the one was the general manager of one of his winery, and his daughter said that, and I believe someone else.) They said that he listens carefully, and makes his decisions after weighing information from those he trusts and respects.

If he's such a nice guy and thoughtful statesman, he's certainly hidden it well.

a reply to: SisterDelirium

If he's such a nice guy and thoughtful statesman

He's a salesman. He can't bull# a bull#ter though lol

I see right through him and his loud mouth.

Let it be known I can't stand Killary either. They are both an insult to my intelligence. This whole entire charade is frankly. I am over it all. Why do people even think their vote counts? It's insane.

originally posted by: MamaJ
a reply to: SisterDelirium

If he's such a nice guy and thoughtful statesman

He's a salesman. He can't bull# a bull#ter though lol

I see right through him and his loud mouth.

Let it be known I can't stand Killary either. They are both an insult to my intelligence. This whole entire charade is frankly. I am over it all. Why do people even think their vote counts? It's insane.

Agreed.

This pretty well sums up my feeling s:
honestgil.com