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Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you. 2 Cor 6:14-17
originally posted by: pthena
a reply to: deignostian
I would say you missed the mark on that one which surprised me as you usually aren't incorrect in your comments.
Why the deviance from your normal spot on information?
My signature pretty much explains the deviance.
But seriously. You have pitted Revelation(unknown authorship) and Acts(unknown authorship) against a reasonably verified NT author. Even a Gospel only person would easily be able to produce:
Mark 7:14He called all the multitude to himself, and said to them, "Hear me, all of you, and understand. 15There is nothing from outside of the man, that going into him can defile him; but the things which proceed out of the man are those that defile the man. 16If anyone has ears to hear, let him hear!"
17When he had entered into a house away from the multitude, his disciples asked him about the parable. 18He said to them, "Are you thus without understanding also? Don't you perceive that whatever goes into the man from outside can't defile him, 19because it doesn't go into his heart, but into his stomach, then into the latrine, thus purifying all foods?"
When I was younger I met very many missionaries who had been to places where primitive animism was the accepted worldview. These missionaries told tales of some very non-Western dishes that they had eaten, even to the extent that those dishes had been part of a ritual ceremony. Their monotheistic minds and hearts were not defiled. They did not become enemies of the Christian deity by eating food.
The story from scripture that they most held in their minds at the time was this:
2 Kings 5:15He returned to the man of God, he and all his company, and came, and stood before him; and he said, "See now, I know that there is no God in all the earth, but in Israel. Now therefore, please take a gift from your servant." 16But he said, "As Yahweh lives, before whom I stand, I will receive none." He urged him to take it; but he refused. 17Naaman said, "If not, then, please let there be given to your servant two mules' burden of earth; for your servant will from now on offer neither burnt offering nor sacrifice to other gods, but to Yahweh. 18In this thing may Yahweh pardon your servan: when my master goes into the house of Rimmon to worship there, and he leans on my hand, and I bow myself in the house of Rimmon. When I bow myself in the house of Rimmon, may Yahweh pardon your servant in this thing." 19He said to him, "Go in peace."
Actually that whole chapter is pretty funny, how the King of Syria first sends a letter to the King of Israel to have his Chief Captain healed of leprosy.
But anyway, if eating can't defile the monotheist than neither can wearing a cross or fish as an emblem of group solidarity (in my opinion).
Your duty to a brother or sister is not to question their salvation or condemn them.
The fact is a foundational doctrine of the majority of Christianity is the bible is the living word of God .They subject all authority to the bible as the word of God as if a creator God needed words written in books to communicate when they do not even understand what is written! In other words it is a convoluted mess of the doctrines of men.
for example, in Acts 2. They met in houses, and there was no pastor or bishop or single leader nattering on at the "little people". Worship was led by the Holy Spirit, and was not ritualistic or scripted. They sang hymns together, they didn't just sit and listen to essentially a Christian rock band. Seems to me that model would be far closer to the way Jesus Himself taught His disciples than what many or most mainline churches do these days.
originally posted by: PrairieShepherd
a reply to: deignostian
Let's clarify a bit here. The Acts 15 passage was a concession the council was making because of a practical issue arising between Jewish and Gentile believers. The meat sold in Greek/Roman markets often came from sacrifices to idols. The Jewish believers would have nothing to do with such meat, believing it unclean. The Gentiles on the other hand, didn't care quite so much. This difference was causing strife between the two groups. In order to foster unity in the early church, the council requested that all believers - Jewish and Gentile alike - abstain from idol-sacrificed meat.
In 1 Corinthians 8, Paul explains that in reality, an idol is nothing more than a piece of metal, stone, or wood. It has no life and no power, and therefore the meat sacrificed to it is in fact nothing more than meat.
If your faith in Christ is strong enough to recognize this, then go ahead and have the meat. But he also cautions against doing so if by doing so you will lead another believer astray because they are not solid enough in their faith to understand that concept yet. [/
What Jesus is referring to is different.
He mentions the practice in two of the letters in Revelation 2 - Pergamum and Thyatira. But you have to look at the whole section. Both sections are speaking of false teaching, and in both the meat sacrifices are tied to sexual immorality. This is a different situation and requires some historical context. In the early church, there were many places where people tried to mix in pagan rituals. One of these was a practice that arose out of the early communion remembrances, which were entire meals, not just bread and wine. Slowly they evolved into basically parties, and people began bringing in idols and practicing fornication. In the letter to Thyatira, Jesus is rebuking the teaching of one woman He calls Jezebel for doing this, since she was teaching that it was OK for Christians in Thyatira to participate in these "love feasts" and even in the idol sacrifices that started to appear in them. For Pergamum, He rebukes those who follow the teaching of Balak and Balaam, who are OT figures that colluded to send Moabite women into the Israelite camp and seduce them, subsequently persuading them to participate in the idol sacrifices themselves, which earned God's ire.
That's the key difference here: the council is making a concession, asking Gentile believers to abstain from buying meat in the marketplace that pagans - not the believers - had sacrificed in order to promote unity in the church. But Jesus is rebuking the churches in Pergamum and Thyatira for actually participating in the sacrifices and sexual practices.