Question for Christians..

a reply to: MrBlaq

Are you Oneness Pentecostal, Sacred Namer, or Church of God?

Are you Oneness Pentecostal, Sacred Namer, or Church of God?

None of the above, just a follower of Christ Yahushua

I best not say that too loud, someone will open a
building, create a 501(c), and use it for the next
Church title religious group.

a reply to: MrBlaq

Well, what do you do with these if I might ask.




Who raised Jesus from the dead?
The Father (Rom 6:4, Acts 3:26, I Thes 1:10)
The Son (John 2:19-21, 10:17-18),
The Spirit (Rom 8:11) or
God (Heb 13:20,Acts13:30,17:31)

Who is God?
The Father (Eph 4:6)
The Son (Tit 2:13, John 1:1, 20:28, 9:35-37)
The Spirit (Gen 1:2, Ps 104:30) or
God (Gen 1:1, Heb 11:3)

Who saves mankind?
The Father (I Pet 1:3)
The Son (John 5:21, 4:14)
The Spirit (John 3:6, Tit 3:5) or
God (I John 3:9)

Who justifies man?
The Father (Jer 23:6, II Cor 5:19)
The Son (Rom 5:9, 10:4, II Cor 5:19,21)
The Spirit (I Cor 6:11, Gal 5:5) or
God (Rom 45:6, 9:33)

Who sanctifies man?
The Father (Jude 1),
The Son (Tit 2:14),
The Spirit (I Pet 1:2) or
God (Ex 31:13)

a reply to: NOTurTypical

I know what you said, you just don't get it that it is also YOUR trinity as all of Christianity has the same trinity.

I am sorry you got confused but you don't have the "right" Trinity because there is no such thing.

There is the Christian trinity, Catholicism is a Christian religion and you just don't like the association so you invent the concept of a false Catholic trinity without even realizing it is the same trinity as your's.

Simple logic is all it takes to realize that Father, Son and Holy Spirit are the same trinity as Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

I guess you just don't like Catholicism and don't want to acknowledge that without them there is no Christianity and we have a new history.

They were Christianity until Luther and also the Orthodox schism before that.

They compiled the NT and canonized the doctrine of the Trinity.

YOUR Trinity.

a reply to: deignostian

I know what you said, you just don't get it that it is also YOUR trinity as all of Christianity has the same trinity.

Certainly not, we don't have a female/queen of heaven/mother of God/co-redemptrix second personhood of our Trinity, absolutely not.

Catholic is father, mother, and son


In Protestantism Mary is just a sinner saved by grace, like all of us.

a reply to: NOTurTypical

You have the same trinity as every Christian or Catholic Christian is what I said.

Don't twist my words just because you don't like Catholicism and don't want to acknowledge them as Christians.

I don't think you have any logic behind your opinions.

a reply to: deignostian

Do you not know that were it not for Catholicism you would not have Christianity? Same with the Trinity. Catholic bashing might be fun but they are the reason you have a Bible so...

Depends upon what word play you choose. If you accept the premise that the Synagogue of James was not Christian but was Nazarene then you are partly correct but if you credit the first congregation of the synagogue of James as being the first Christians then not true at all. Catholicism did not exist with James nor with the first century Nazarene movement but was taken from the Nazarene's by murder and theft and by the same as is called the Roman Catholic organizations and their many offshoots.

The word play "Christians" is very misleading and distracts from the true history. Roman Catholicism did not exist till well after the slaughter of the Jews by Hadrian in about 135 CE-- If by word play you mean Universal Church as Catholic Church, even then it is not true because the first century Nazarene congregation was not a universal or church. The very first Jesus movement was the synagogue of James and it flourished till just before the 70 CE sacking of Jerusalem. Rome had no part in the Jesus movement except to destroy it. So in lite of the truth, Roman Christianity has no fellowship with the Nazarene movement then as it still is now. Roman Catholicism is not Christianity in true form.

a reply to: Seede

I actually think Christianity has nothing to do with Jesus and James but I didn't write history.

As far as I am concerned a Nazarene or a sub sect of is the only legit Jesus movement.

Night and day really. But I was staking what I said based off the fact that if someone considers the Bible the word of God they must accept Catholicism as a true church not a church with a fake Trinity.

Basically Christianity and Catholicism have the same trinity is all I mean.

And that some numbskull doesn't have the right to decide for Catholicism that they have a fake Trinity

While using their scripture and calling it the word of God.

It's hypocritical to say the least.

a reply to: Seede

2 billion Catholics might take offense to some dummy saying that they worship a fake Trinity.

a reply to: deignostian

Basically Christianity and Catholicism have the same trinity is all I mean.

No, we don't consider Mary to be divine. Catholic Trinity is God the Father, Mary, and Jesus Christ. They literally teach she is a co-redemptrix with Jesus.

a reply to: deignostian

I know what you said, you just don't get it that it is also YOUR trinity as all of Christianity has the same trinity.

Word play once again. There is only one Most High EL and no more that He exists as total Holy Spirit according to the teachings of the Apostles. If you understand that the Most High has an image in the "Word" then you can understand that the trinity is not as you may visualize. There are some who do not subscribe to the Holy Spirit as a third entity but instead regard Holy Spirit as The Most High Father EL. How can there be two Holy Spirits one could ask?

a reply to: MrBlaq

Originally posted by MrBlaq
If Christ rebuked the Pharisees for transgressing the commandment of God by their tradition, what's to stop Christ from rebuking Christians who transgress God's commandment through their tradition of using graven images? Such as a cross, or fish amulets, etc etc.

2 Key points here…

Firstly…the whole worshiping Idols thing, was to do with worshipping other Gods through graven images etc… That same parallel doesn’t quite apply to Christians because they are worshiping the God of the Bible through those images, like the cross and the others you mentioned in your OP…So it’s not quite the same thing IMO…

Plus, where do you draw the line. If you take it further, then you’d also have to ask if the Ark of the Covenant, is not a graven image too etc…

Originally posted by MrBlaq
Exod 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:

Matt 15:3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?


It's possible Christians have received a revelation that idolatry is no more a sin with God.

And secondly, the context of the verse Matt 15:3 was connected with the tradition of hand washing before eating food…

I personally, think the verses from 3 to 9, was Jesus trying to point out that those Laws which men thought came from God, came really from men's traditions. And that men were following them thinking that they came from God…

It’s also about the outward profession of belief through blindly following traditions and practices, when following God should come from the Heart and Spirit…That’s the real parallel that can be drawn with Christians today…IMO


- JC

a reply to: MrBlaq

It's possible Christians have received a revelation that idolatry is no more a sin with God.

It's all right here:

1 Corintians 8
1Now concerning things sacrificed to idols: We know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up. 2But if anyone thinks that he knows anything, he doesn't yet know as he ought to know. 3But if anyone loves God, the same is known by him.

4Therefore concerning the eating of things sacrificed to idols, we know that no idol is anything in the world, and that there is no other God but one. 5For though there are things that are called "gods," whether in the heavens or on earth; as there are many "gods" and many "lords;" 6yet to us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we live through him.

7However, that knowledge isn't in all men. But some, with consciousness of the idol until now, eat as of a thing sacrificed to an idol, and their conscience, being weak, is defiled. 8But food will not commend us to God. For neither, if we don't eat, are we the worse; nor, if we eat, are we the better.

So "knowing" that idols are nothing, and there are no other gods makes the prohibition of idolatry a moot point, a non-issue. No amount of wearing crosses or fish totems will be able to defile a monotheistic mind.

For those who live in the post-Christian monotheistic mindset, idolatry is impossible. Only those who do believe in the natural spirit of the Mother Earth, and the winds and spirits, and the local tutelary deities can possibly be in violation of the Torah commands. But then Pagans don't care what is in the Torah.

If Christians decide to rid the World of idolatry then they must either convert all people, coerce all people, and kill all people who have not been converted or coerced.

originally posted by: pthena
a reply to: MrBlaq

It's possible Christians have received a revelation that idolatry is no more a sin with God.

It's all right here:

1 Corintians 8
1Now concerning things sacrificed to idols: We know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up. 2But if anyone thinks that he knows anything, he doesn't yet know as he ought to know. 3But if anyone loves God, the same is known by him.

4Therefore concerning the eating of things sacrificed to idols, we know that no idol is anything in the world, and that there is no other God but one. 5For though there are things that are called "gods," whether in the heavens or on earth; as there are many "gods" and many "lords;" 6yet to us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we live through him.

7However, that knowledge isn't in all men. But some, with consciousness of the idol until now, eat as of a thing sacrificed to an idol, and their conscience, being weak, is defiled. 8But food will not commend us to God. For neither, if we don't eat, are we the worse; nor, if we eat, are we the better.

So "knowing" that idols are nothing, and there are no other gods makes the prohibition of idolatry a moot point, a non-issue. No amount of wearing crosses or fish totems will be able to defile a monotheistic mind.

For those who live in the post-Christian monotheistic mindset, idolatry is impossible. Only those who do believe in the natural spirit of the Mother Earth, and the winds and spirits, and the local tutelary deities can possibly be in violation of the Torah commands. But then Pagans don't care what is in the Torah.

If Christians decide to rid the World of idolatry then they must either convert all people, coerce all people, and kill all people who have not been converted or coerced.

This passage is talking about eating meat that's been sacrificed to idols.

Check out what Jesus has to say about this in Revelation. He doesn't say what you do, in fact he makes it known that he is pissed.

2:14 But I have these things against you: you have some there who hold to the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balak to put a stumbling block before the people of Israel, so they would eat food sacrificed to idols...

Now, if Jesus, who is God to Christians, condemns this practice, and Paul teaches it, is it not obvious that Saul has no regard for the truth and is teaching false doctrine?

Paul says Idols DON'T exist.

Jesus says they do, and that eating meat sacrificed to them is the teaching of OT villain Balaam.

But Christianity only follows the rules they want while condemning others for doing it.

If they were true to Jesus they would certainly see this as absolute proof that Paul is a false prophet charlatan.

Paul even calls people who follow what Jesus says about this "spiritually weak" which is nothing less than calling Jesus spiritually weak.

a reply to: pthena

How is it moot if Jesus, GOD, says it's not at all moot?

In Revelation, the book named after the concept you are citing AS a revelation , it is revealed to be a serious issue to GOD Jesus.

And the Holy Spirit consulted by the pillars of Jerusalem, James being most prominently featured, declares also that avoiding this practice is one of 4 regulations and participation in it forbidden for the community of the Greek disciples joining the movement.

a reply to: pthena

Acts 15:28

"For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to impose on you no further burden than the essentials: that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols..."

Now we have the unblasphemable Holy Spirit, Jesus Christ and James the Just/Righteous all saying that this is, not moot but ESSENTIAL.

And then Paul saying that only the "spiritually weak" need follow this teaching.


I would say you missed the mark on that one which surprised me as you usually aren't incorrect in your comments.

Why the deviance from your normal spot on information?

originally posted by: Seede
a reply to: deignostian

I know what you said, you just don't get it that it is also YOUR trinity as all of Christianity has the same trinity.

Word play once again. There is only one Most High EL and no more that He exists as total Holy Spirit according to the teachings of the Apostles. If you understand that the Most High has an image in the "Word" then you can understand that the trinity is not as you may visualize. There are some who do not subscribe to the Holy Spirit as a third entity but instead regard Holy Spirit as The Most High Father EL. How can there be two Holy Spirits one could ask?

Funny, I don't recall mentioning a second Holy Spirit.

As far as understanding goes I don't think you're on point...at all. Because you aren't.

originally posted by: NOTurTypical
a reply to: deignostian

Basically Christianity and Catholicism have the same trinity is all I mean.

No, we don't consider Mary to be divine. Catholic Trinity is God the Father, Mary, and Jesus Christ. They literally teach she is a co-redemptrix with Jesus.

False. The Holy Spirit is not Mary and IS 1/3 of the Catholic/Christian Trinity. Nice try though.

by divine do you mean a God?

Or just the Mother of God in the flesh?

Either way giving birth without having sex is divine intervention and Mary has nothing to do with the Trinity.

Again, Mary isn't part of the Catholic Trinity
in Catholicism so you are doing your "oops, I was wrong and better confuse the topic so nobody notices" routine.

Wherever you got this notion is less important than the question:

How can you say something so patently possibly blatantly false?

Challenge: Provide a source from the Catholic Church like their encyclopedia that says Mary is 1/3 of the Trinity.

I guarantee you can't. So what I wonder is a. who told you thid and:

b. How could you say it without even researching the matter and not feel terribly guilty about speaking a falsehood to support your dislike of Catholicism?

Because what you just claimed is not a claim of anyone either honest and/or educated in the subject and essentially if you believe it... WOW.

a reply to: NOTurTypical

Catholic is father, mother, and son

That is incorrect...

They are the first trinitarians...

a reply to: MrBlaq

Idolatry is about worshipping another god silly. |Religious men wanted their authority divine and so anyone looking at something they also regarded as divine was a threat to their authority hence the lists of what one could do and not do. Anything to try to stamp a new religion on the ancient one and hide the roots of their central belief column.

How do you think Allah would feel if muslims decided to worship another God or the jews decided to change YHWH with the whole idea of one only god if you decide there is another then the religions are up the spout plus of course the omnipotence of said deity.

religion is about politics and control.