New Testament Misogyny

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: NOTurTypical

Does the New Testament forbid a husband to impose corporal punishment on his wife?

That's a weird question, it doesn't forbid many things. Do you mean to ask if it teaches to do it, or instructs to do it? I can't say I've ever read that in the NT. Jesus kind of makes a passing comment on adult to adult physical abuse in Matthew 24:49 to lead me to believe it's a sin. One quote from a famous Bibical commentator and theologian goes like this:

“Eve was not taken out of Adam's head to top him, neither out of his feet to be trampled on by him, but out of his side to be equal with him, under his arm to be protected by him, and near his heart to be loved by him.” - Matthew Henry

A husband who is Godly serves his wife, loves her more than himself, isn't verbally or mentally abusive, puts her needs and goals before his own, protects, provides, and sacrifices himself for her. Truly relating to her in the model Jesus did for His church.

That's why I wholeheartedly reject the idea that it's "misogynist", misogyny is "the contempt, hatred for, and prejudice toward women/girls". You are correct to say men and women aren't equal in a physical sense, generally men are stronger, generally women are smarter, but in Christ we are equal in His redemptive covenant, equal as children of God, and equal in a spiritual sense, therefore in the new covenant I see my wife as my equal, and if I'm honest, certainly my better half.

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: Klassified

Atheists have been responsible for what was ir, over 100 million deaths since the end of WW2 and you want me to stop stating fact, the bible says women should wear a head covering and we are misogynists, smashing baby's heads on trees ala PolPot and you want to make Christians out as evil
Atheism brought humanity a blood bath, a recent blood bath, women and children because humans have no value according to the tenets of atheism, not just women or children, people have no value, some are considered less evolved animals
Didn't Darwin say in his book, some people, some races were not as evolved as others

Klass, read your posts, you are the scratched record, I am just mimicking your tune, give the listeners a bit of compression

What does any of that have to do with the topic of this thread? Nothing. The topic is misogyny, not a pissing contest between you and me.

a reply to: NOTurTypical
You can reject it all you want, but it doesn't change what has been written...
1 Timothy 2

11 Let a woman learn in silence with all submission.
12 And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.
15 Nevertheless she will be saved in childbearing if they continue in faith, love, and holiness, with self-control.

a reply to: NOTurTypical

“Eve was not taken out of Adam's head to top him, neither out of his feet to be trampled on by him, but out of his side to be equal with him, under his arm to be protected by him, and near his heart to be loved by him.” - Matthew Henry

Those are pretty words, and a nice sentiment, but not what the Bible teaches. The Bible teaches that the wife is subservient to her husband and that the husband has authority over her. That's not equal. The Bible teaches that the family is a patriarchy. You can dance around it all you like, but that's misogyny.

I suppose that you agree with this Christian pastor, that these modern day suggestions, for why and how to discipline one's wife, are NOT abusive.

Biblically speaking all those who are under various authorities can and should be disciplined by those authorities. The husband wife relationship is no exception to this rule. So how should a Christian husband go about his duty of disciplining his wife whom God has placed under his authority?

Here are 7 ways you can discipline your wife if a gentle rebuke does not work:

#1 For Disrespect

If your wife is speaking in disrespectful and demeaning ways in public in front of others (whether this is toward you or others) this might require a public rebuke of her tone and actions.

#2 For Overspending

If your wife is spending money against your wishes – this may require confiscation of her credit cards and ATM cards. Of course this can be done in measured amounts. Perhaps you might just take away one or two cards that she has abused and if her spending continues to get out of control you would move toward removing the ATM card as well. This does not necessarily mean she would have no money, but you could give her a cash allowance each week.

#3 For failing to care for your children or contradicting your authority with your children

If your wife is failing to do her duties as a mother toward your children or she is continuing to contradict your authority with the children then perhaps you might put off buying that new car for her and have her continue driving her older car for a while as long as it is safe for her to drive. If you have to purchase another car – you could downgrade the type of car she will be able to get or buy her a used one instead. Maybe you put off the purchase of that new dishwasher she has been wanting.

#4 For too much TV watching

If your wife is watching too much TV you could cancel the cable or satellite TV and just have antenna service.

#5 For too much online time

If your wife is spending too much time online (like Facebook or other social outlets or online shopping) then if she does not respond to your warnings about this you could change your internet code on your router so that her devices will not have access to the internet.

#6 For neglect of the home

Maybe your wife is not watching too much TV or spending too much time online but she is still neglectful toward her duties in your home. If your wife is being neglectful of her duties to care for your home then you might put off that new living room furniture set you have been talking about or those new window dressings she has been wanting.

This one's my favorite!

#7 For sexual denial

If your wife is un-submissive in the sexual arena and chronically denies your sexual advances (without legitimate medical or psychological reasons for doing so) then perhaps that upcoming trip you were going to take her on gets canceled. Maybe that wardrobe upgrade your wife was looking forward to gets downsized or canceled. The Bible says a man has to supply his wife with clothing, but it does not say it has to be the expensive clothing she wants!

Some of these disciplinary procedures may affect the family as a whole, but sometimes it is necessary to do this in an attempt to bring your wife to repentance.

These are just some examples of non-abusive ways that a Christian husband can discipline his wife in a way that honors God and his design for the home.

biblicalgenderroles.com...

a reply to: Klassified

Timothy is a "pastoral epistle", it's telling Timothy that a wife shouldn't have authority over her husband in the church. And it's not saying women can't be disciples, teachers, ministry workers etc, because in other epistles women are praised for their ministry work.

originally posted by: NOTurTypical
a reply to: Klassified

Timothy is a "pastoral epistle", it's telling Timothy that a wife shouldn't have authority over her husband in the church. And it's not saying women can't be disciples, teachers, ministry workers etc, because in other epistles women are praised for their ministry work.

C'mon NuT. You aren't talking to a newbie here. You know as well as I, ministry roles for women in those days were different from men's. Adding to that, she had to be under the authority of a man in order to be in any kind of ministry. Pastoral or not, the epistle applies to this debate, and showcases the OP's point.

a reply to: windword

These are just some examples of non-abusive ways that a Christian husband can discipline his wife in a way that honors God and his design for the home.

a reply to: windword

The Bible teaches that there is one "leader" in the household, there aren't two leaders, now that is the theory of the matter, however in practice any husband worth anything at all will tell you his wife's council is vital and fundamentally necessary for a healthy family and decision making. Every husband if they are honest will admit their wife is their better half, their best friend, and their equal in the household. If a husband is running around saying "woman, you will hereby submit!" they are a fool, that's not loving, that's not whatsoever following the admonishion in verses 25-29 of how a husband is to relate to his wife.

There is no way to get around the passages by the same author that tells men and women to submit to each other. Example verse 21. I said this earlier, no it's a key point, a husband cannot be subjecting a wife, making her a subject to him, and mentally or physically abusing her and simultaneously sacrificing himself for her, putting her will, desires, and needs before his own, loving and cherishing her, and honoring her in the same manner Christ loved the church. It's IMPOSSIBLE to treat a wife simultaneously both ways.

a reply to: Klassified

But the Greek word used is best translated as wife, not woman. A wife shouldn't have authority over her own husband in the setting of a church, which at that time was home churches with groups of 5 to 10 generally meeting. I suppose you could say that applies to a church today and women shouldn't be pastors, but to get dogmatic about things like that leads to legalism IMO, and isn't really necessary.

a reply to: windword

Lol!!! What website is that? Sounds like the Westboro Baptist Church cult, look, that's not Bibical doctrine, just some mindless ramblings of a weird ass abusive man. Reject that nonsense, it's not Biblical.

Edit to add: Look like some dude's blog. Not relevant.

a reply to: NOTurTypical

Okay, but now you're talking about leadership, not equality, and explaining why two married people can't be equal! Someone has to lead, and that's the husband, according the Christian model. I'm here to tell you that that's not the only, or even the most popular working model of a marriage in today's world.

Like I said before, all this stems from Eve and her deception. Woman is not qualified nor trustworthy enough to be left to her own designs.

Martha and Mary

38It happened as they went on their way, he entered into a certain village, and a certain woman named Martha received him into her house. 39She had a sister called Mary, who also sat at Jesus' feet, and heard his word. 40But Martha was distracted with much serving, and she came up to him, and said, "Lord, don't you care that my sister left me to serve alone? Ask her therefore to help me." 41Jesus answered her, "Martha, Martha, you are anxious and troubled about many things, 42but one thing is needed. Mary has chosen the good part, which will not be taken away from her."

Luke 10 WEB

So here is an odd story. I can't figure out who's the misogynist here: Martha because she's doing the serving; Mary for not helping Martha; or Jesus for considering a woman sitting at his feet somehow more needed than a woman serving?

a reply to: NOTurTypical

I'm just saying that the Christian man who wrote that believes from the most sincere part of his heart that those are loving, "do unto others" things to do to assert one's authority over ones' wife, for her own good.

a reply to: windword
And that really is the root of it. Paul, and then the early church fathers have incessantly blamed women for the fall of humans, and even the death of Christ. It's in so much church literature through the centuries, you'd think the Devil is a she instead of a he.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: NOTurTypical

Okay, but now you're talking about leadership, not equality, and explaining why two married people can't be equal! Someone has to lead, and that's the husband, according the Christian model. I'm here to tell you that that's not the only, or even the most popular working model of a marriage in today's world.

Like I said before, all this stems from Eve and her deception. Woman is not qualified nor trustworthy enough to be left to her own designs.

I am talking about leadership, which to me means if a husband and wife cannot agree SOMEBODY has to make a course of action on the matter. And I don't get at all that women aren't qualified or trustworthy, if just the same model as Christ and the church, and the other shoe in that chapter is the husband's role, to lovingly sacrifice himself for his wife. You can't have one without the other.

I'd say the ultimate Biblical model, which also is a type and foreshadow of Christ and a gentile bride (church) is the story of Ruth and Boaz.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: NOTurTypical

I'm just saying that the Christian man who wrote that believes from the most sincere part of his heart that those are loving, "do unto others" things to do to assert one's authority over ones' wife, for her own good.

Yeah, but he is crazy. We can't use a crazy person who wishes to use the Bible to rule over his wife. As the other member said previously, people in the 18th century tried to use Chriatianity as justification for the African American slave trade. And the Bible specifically says in the NT that manstealing is a sin.

a reply to: NOTurTypical

if just the same model as Christ and the church, and the other shoe in that chapter is the husband's role, to lovingly sacrifice himself for his wife. You can't have one without the other.

The roles of Christ and the church is simple. He's the boss, and what he says goes. No argument. His sacrifice didn't change that role. He's still the boss, and what he tells the church is a commandment, not a request.

a reply to: Klassified

Okay, same challenge to you, what does Ephesians 5:25-29 say as my role to my wife? Is there anything self-serving, dominating, or abusive in there?

Edit to add:

Also, can you see anywhere in the 5th chapter of Ephesians where it says my job/duty is to make my wife submit to me or to punish her like a child? (As the crazy blogger thinks)

My life is changing
in so many ways
I don't know who
to trust anymore
There's a shadow running
thru my days
Like a beggar going
from door to door.

I was thinking that
maybe I'd get a maid
Find a place nearby
for her to stay.
Just someone
to keep my house clean,
Fix my meals and go away.

A maid. A man needs a maid.
A maid.

It's hard to make that change
When life and love
turns strange.
And old.

To give a love,
you gotta live a love.
To live a love,
you gotta be "part of"
When will I see you again?

A while ago somewhere
I don't know when
I was watching
a movie with a friend.
I fell in love with the actress.
She was playing a part
that I could understand.

A maid. A man needs a maid.
A maid.

When will I see you again?

originally posted by: Klassified

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: Klassified

Atheists have been responsible for what was ir, over 100 million deaths since the end of WW2 and you want me to stop stating fact, the bible says women should wear a head covering and we are misogynists, smashing baby's heads on trees ala PolPot and you want to make Christians out as evil
Atheism brought humanity a blood bath, a recent blood bath, women and children because humans have no value according to the tenets of atheism, not just women or children, people have no value, some are considered less evolved animals
Didn't Darwin say in his book, some people, some races were not as evolved as others

Klass, read your posts, you are the scratched record, I am just mimicking your tune, give the listeners a bit of compression

What does any of that have to do with the topic of this thread? Nothing. The topic is misogyny, not a pissing contest between you and me.

I win, you retreat, blow my trumpet Toot Toot

The issue is that its not just christians, its people in general
Gnosisfaith is making this a singular issue and its not, its a people issue

I am not the one who is pouring hate on atheists, I am aware there are more good than bad, kind than evil, what I am doing is explaining that evil exists in everyone and anything can be manipulated to cause issues