New Testament Misogyny

originally posted by: NOTurTypical
a reply to: deignostian

You can not decieve me with the lame, poor, sorry and desperate "out of context" argument.

Well, then get your iron scepter out, sit on your throne, and rule as a master over your wife. Get a Sharpie and cross out verses 25-29 from the text, and I wish you luck in your marriage. You're going to need it.

Are you trying to cleverly insult me?

You don't have to answer that. I am not insulted and it wasn't clever.

Just as I said, the frustration of the Christian oft leads to insults and the revealing of the true self. I don't let insults bother me especially coming from a proclaimed Christian. It is the ultimate admission of defeat.

Claiming to be a Christian and then getting sarcastic with insults because you have no possible way to refute the ugly truth is the same as saying you know that I am right, but you want to hurt my feelings as retaliation.

Lol.

10
Who can find a virtuous[c] wife?
For her worth is far above rubies.
11
The heart of her husband safely trusts her;
So he will have no lack of gain.
12
She does him good and not evil
All the days of her life.
13
She seeks wool and flax,
And willingly works with her hands.
14
She is like the merchant ships,
She brings her food from afar.
15
She also rises while it is yet night,
And provides food for her household,
And a portion for her maidservants.
16
She considers a field and buys it;
From her profits she plants a vineyard.
17
She girds herself with strength,
And strengthens her arms.
18
She perceives that her merchandise is good,
And her lamp does not go out by night.
19
She stretches out her hands to the distaff,
And her hand holds the spindle.
20
She extends her hand to the poor,
Yes, she reaches out her hands to the needy.
21
She is not afraid of snow for her household,
For all her household is clothed with scarlet.
22
She makes tapestry for herself;
Her clothing is fine linen and purple.
23
Her husband is known in the gates,
When he sits among the elders of the land.
24
She makes linen garments and sells them,
And supplies sashes for the merchants.
25
Strength and honor are her clothing;
She shall rejoice in time to come.
26
She opens her mouth with wisdom,
And on her tongue is the law of kindness.
27
She watches over the ways of her household,
And does not eat the bread of idleness.
28
Her children rise up and call her blessed;
Her husband also, and he praises her:
29
“Many daughters have done well,
But you excel them all.”
30
Charm is deceitful and beauty is passing,
But a woman who fears the Lord, she shall be praised.
31
Give her of the fruit of her hands,
And let her own works praise her in the gates.

first, you notice that her husband trusts her, allows her to go about her way, she making deals, buying land, and using that land and plants a vineyard.... and because of her works, he isable to sit at the gates,
sitting among the elders of the land. which in jewish customs, many women would work their butts off so that their husband could have time to learn, which would increase their status in the culture.

so there were at least some mothers who were trying to teach their sons that there was a better way to live, one that would enrich both..

a reply to: deignostian

What insult? You seem to be dead set on ignoring the responsibilities of the husband to the wife in verses 25-29, you're consistently saying they are irrelevant. So if you want to ignore them, then just remove them from your Bible. I'm not doing that, they instruct me as a husband to sacrifice myself for my wife, to love and cherish her above myself, to serve her and put her needs and desires above my own.

That's context of the chapter, that's considering the entire thing, not a single portion of it. There is no insult, if you want to focus on ruling over a woman and ignore what the text says is your duty to her, then you're free to do it, but it will be a miracle if your marriage stays together.

a reply to: dawnstar

I wish the Bible focused more on Miriam the Prophetess.

Rahab is honored because of her assistance.

Ruth and Esther are honored although some Jews rejected Esther.

But the biggest secret (imo) is that the Good Holy Spirit is the Goddess.

And synonymous with Wisdom and Truth. The Spirit is Good (I like to say Good in place of God so I know who/what I am talking about is Good and not a Yahweh type who is not Good.)

There is no insult, if you want to focus on ruling over a woman and ignore what the text says is your duty to her, then you're free to do it, but it will be a miracle if your marriage stays together.

a reply to: NOTurTypical

yes, he is, and if he chooses to do so, what does the bible instruct the wife to do? doesn't it say to obey him, regardless, and to pray....
okay, what if what he is telling her to do is something that she feels is rather immoral? or she knows will result in her being harmed? should she still be obedient, and just pray to god for forgiveness? should she allow him to rip out her stitches a week after she gave birth because after all it's not her body, it's his???

what if she knows that being this little obedient servant to him is going to harm him in the long run, should she still be obedient, or should the love she has for him override that command?

questions such as these are not easily answered in the bible. I know because I searched high and low for them. and in the end, I came to the conclusion that a women can't really be a christian, unless the man who is ruling over her allows her to...

a two for one sale for satan!

a reply to: NOTurTypical

If you have no idea what I meant by sarcastic and insult you need a lesson in manners. I have no reason to communicate with you as you know as well as I that subjecting women and making them subservient is vile.

If you want to deny facts be my guest but you will not be receiving anymore replies from me. I could care less if you like Paul but have the cajones to admit what he said is impossible to misinterpret as it's uber obvious he was a misogynist.

I would respect honesty. Denying the obvious truth is something I personally find dishonorable.

Denying the existence of a vile concept that is clear as day and in plain English is just not something I can respect when you know it exists.

I will quote again if needed.

a reply to: dawnstar
20 Vile Quotes Against Women By Religious Leaders...

The feminist agenda is not about equal rights for women. It is about a socialist, anti-family political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbians.

Robertson has always had Reality Deficit Disorder.

The problem with those who defend misogyny in the bible, is that the history of the church, and their leaders, make liars out of them repeatedly. The church has a long history of using, abusing and subjugating women. And as has been said, those verses that appear benevolent toward women are cancelled by those verses which again put women hardly one step above a mans servants, or his cattle...

a reply to: deignostian

ever read what ruth mother in law tells her to do??
go, sneak into the tent of this guy, get naked, and lay at his feet all night, and when he wakes up to find you there, offer yourself up as his concubine, so you have a man to take care of you... because I am old and unable to continue to care for you myself.
and yes, this is a great example of a godly women!!!

sarah is another, sarah was not only abraham's wife, but also sister, or half sister, something like that. so when the pharaoh saw that she was so pretty, abraham became afraid that he would kill him so he could have her. so he told sarah to lie, and pretend she was just his sister, and commit adultery with him if need be...
so, of course, being the godly women she was, she obeyed him, and luckily, in this case her prayers were answered because god revealed the deception to the pharaoh.

originally posted by: NOTurTypical
a reply to: deignostian

You can not decieve me with the lame, poor, sorry and desperate "out of context" argument.

Well, then get your iron scepter out, sit on your throne, and rule as a master over your wife. Get a Sharpie and cross out verses 25-29 from the text, and I wish you luck in your marriage. You're going to need it.

You asked me, what insult?

Since I haven't a throne or scepter, and take offense to being called someone who would want to "rule my wife", and told me to do something ridiculous... I consider this an insult. I am not "insultED" but it is an insult.

And forgive the harsh term but also moronic. Here I am defending equality and you remark as if I would rule a woman.

That is frustration talking because you have heard all the comments on this thread before and now but don't have the Faith to drop Paul so you can only follow Jesus.

You have nothing to say that could redeem the misogynist but obsession won't let you admit it. All you can do is quote irrelevant passages and hurl insults.

a reply to: dawnstar

I think my next thread will be about Abraham and his pimping out his elderly paternal sister.

Twice. And getting called out for it twice .

And how God made Haggars descendants inferior to Sarah's.

But I do know Ruth's story somewhat, a Moabitess of the line of Jesus.

originally posted by: deignostian
a reply to: Boadicea

It was his hair getting cut that cost him his power but God gave it to him one last time to destroy the building.

Sure did! If I remember correctly, he killed more Philistines in his death than in his life...

Delilah seduced his secret out of him making the woman AGAIN the villain , a constant theme.

True, similar to Eve giving Adam the apple... it's all the woman's fault...

At least in theory Adam didn't know not to trust Eve; but Samson has no excuse for his stupidity. I mean, seriously, how many times did Delilah have to betray him before he figured out he couldn't trust her??? How easy was it to seduce this guy anyway? Apparently his awesome strength had a common weakness...

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: Raggedyman

Samson lost his strength for his constant sin
He constantly broke nazarite laws.
Context

You may very well be right. I have no inside information so I don't pretend to know.

However, it is what Samson claimed, and according to the story, it is what reportedly happened after Delilah cut his hair. And, in context, it happened after he had told her a few other ways to take his power, which she also did to him but none of which took his strength and power as he claimed it would.

I'm just relating that story -- nothing more, nothing less.

I hope I didn't come across as arrogant,
Samson lost his power because of his sin, God blessed Samson as a judge and then removed that blessing because he constantly broke nazarite laws
It's very common for people to look at the hair as the reason for Samsons strength but in reality, God gave Samson his strength, then God removed it because of sin.
That's the common theme of the Old Testament bible, sin separates man from God
Samson was a constant sinner, a very morally weak man.

No doubt in captivation, Samson repented and his strength restored

The bible is a very hard book to understand and most people get taught a lie.

So please understand I was relating how I understood the story, no more no less, no offence intended

originally posted by: Klassified
a reply to: dawnstar
20 Vile Quotes Against Women By Religious Leaders...

The feminist agenda is not about equal rights for women. It is about a socialist, anti-family political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbians.

Robertson has always had Reality Deficit Disorder.

The problem with those who defend misogyny in the bible, is that the history of the church, and their leaders, make liars out of them repeatedly. The church has a long history of using, abusing and subjugating women. And as has been said, those verses that appear benevolent toward women are cancelled by those verses which again put women hardly one step above a mans servants, or his cattle...

I seem to recall Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot killing many millions of women and children, they were atheists
Though to be fair, those atheist regimes placed everyone on the same footing as cattle, probably lower

No thanks, I respect human life more than atheists

a reply to: deignostian

well, the thing is with the story of sarah, what it kind of teaches is that no matter how wrong you might think something is, if your husband tells you to do it, the only sin is to not do as he commands. but then one has to ask, what if god was a little late on informing the pharaoh about the deception, who would it be that would probably be burned at the stake? pretty sure it wouldn't have been abraham or the pharaoh.

just like today, probably just as many abortions are done at the request (or demand) of the father as are done because of the mother's desire, but it's always the women who are portrayed as being the evil ones.

a reply to: deignostian

Then I cannot help you, I don't know. But when I read Ephesians 5 my obligations in a marriage is defined in verses 25-29, that's the template I follow to give glory to the Lord. I consider how Jesus loved the church, and mirror that to the best of my knowledge and power. She is flesh of my flesh, we are one body. So I don't rule over her, just as I don't rule over the left or right side of my own body, my desires and needs come secondary to her's. Or as the old proverb goes, "happy wife, happy life."

Do as you want, but that's what I do with Ephesians 5, I love her and cherish her like Christ does His church. At the end of the day, He gave His own life for the church.

a reply to: Raggedyman

Thank you -- and no worries. I personally agree with you

I was just speaking to the Biblical story on its face and wanted to make that clear.

a reply to: Raggedyman

but why do humans feel the need to place anyone in the ranks of cattle?
be it slave and women, serfs and common folk, or in today's world, minimum wage earners.
what you are saying is that without the slaves and women being put into that position, we all face the possibility of being put into that position. and that is what you find objectionable.

a reply to: deignostian

If you have no idea what I meant by sarcastic and insult you need a lesson in manners. I have no reason to communicate with you as you know as well as I that subjecting women and making them subservient is vile.

You're right, a man subjecting women and making them subservient is vile. But interestingly, the passage in Ephesians 5 does not tell the husband that is his role/job to do. The husband's obligations in verses 25-29 aren't in "making" or "subjecting" women to do anything whatsoever, the verses written to me as a husband only tell me my roles that I'm to do/relate to her. Nowhere does it say what I'm to make someone else do, that's certainly not loving.

So as the husband, my only focus and role in the marriage is to follow verses 25-29.

You have nothing to say that could redeem the misogynist but obsession won't let you admit it. All you can do is quote irrelevant passages and hurl insults.

How is verses 25-29 "irrelevant"? It's right there in the context of the paragraph about the role of the husband. What I read in those 5 verses is putting my wife above myself, sacrificing myself to her, loving and cherishing her more than myself. I'm a husband, that's written to the husband, so definitely not irrelevant.

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: Klassified
a reply to: dawnstar
20 Vile Quotes Against Women By Religious Leaders...

The feminist agenda is not about equal rights for women. It is about a socialist, anti-family political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbians.

Robertson has always had Reality Deficit Disorder.

The problem with those who defend misogyny in the bible, is that the history of the church, and their leaders, make liars out of them repeatedly. The church has a long history of using, abusing and subjugating women. And as has been said, those verses that appear benevolent toward women are cancelled by those verses which again put women hardly one step above a mans servants, or his cattle...

I seem to recall Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot killing many millions of women and children, they were atheists
Though to be fair, those atheist regimes placed everyone on the same footing as cattle, probably lower

No thanks, I respect human life more than atheists

I told you how to fix that scuffed/scratched record. If you'll clean it, it will stop getting stuck in the same groove, and repeating the same lines over and over.

a reply to: NOTurTypical

How is verses 25-29 "irrelevant"?

Because the same bible teaches how to treat your slaves. Teaching someone how to treat their slaves does not make it ok to have them to start with. Neither does teaching a man how to treat his subordinate wife make it ok that she is under the other verses making her little more than a servant.

It's right there in the context of the paragraph about the role of the husband. What I read in those 5 verses is putting my wife above myself, sacrificing myself to her, loving and cherishing her more than myself. I'm a husband, that's written to the husband, so definitely not irrelevant.

The verses you're stuck on, do not negate the misogyny of the other verses. No matter how hard you try to make it ok, it isn't.