Undeliberate Meditation?

I'm wondering if it's possible to enter meditation states without actively meaning to.
I've never tried meditation so I don't know the experience of these states first hand, but I sometimes have odd experiences on the bus coming home from work.

Sometimes I'm absolutely exhausted after work, mentally and physically, and rest my eyes once I'm on the bus. I don't think I fall asleep, as I'm still aware that I'm on a bus, but sometimes after a few minutes of resting with my eyes closed, I suddenly enter a hyper vivid and lucid sort of dream state.

Often it's like I hear voices having a conversation or passing on information. Sometimes I'm one of the voices. It always kind of shocks me back "awake", not a fear shock, more a wow! weird! kind of thing, and I have no memory of anything that was said.

Sometimes I have strange quick visions that I do remember. Sometimes comical, sometimes bizarre and nonsensical, sometimes pure horrific. I'm often someone else but still me if that makes sense. Snippets of some scenario that last 3 or 4 seconds and seem normal until I snap back to reality.

So I guess my question is are these experiences similar to ones achieved by those who practice meditation, or am I just entering straight into a light REM sleep or something due to being so knackered?

a reply to: Ruiner1978

Do you have a different state that you associate with daydreaming?
It sounds like daytime parahypnagogia.

Paper on Daytime Parahypnagogia

DPH is more likely to occur when one is tired, bored, suffering from attention fatigue, and/or engaged in a passive activity. Individuals describe DPH as a transient and fleeting episode that is dissociative, trance-like, dreamlike, uncanny, and often pleasurable; but, unlike a daydream, it is not self-directed. A DPH episode is spontaneous and may consist of a flash image, thought, and/or creative insight that is quickly forgotten. However, the individual remains aware of having had a DPH experience.

a reply to: Ruiner1978

define meditation.

It can mean to "think deeply on" a subject or thought.

It can mean an altered state of mind or being. Which seems to be what you are leaning upon.

The Biblical meaning of meditation is think deeply on something.

Jos 1:8 This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success.
Ps 1:2 But his delight [is] in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.
Ps 63:6 When I remember thee upon my bed, [and] meditate on thee in the [night] watches.
Ps 77:12 I will meditate also of all thy work, and talk of thy doings.
Ps 119:15 I will meditate in thy precepts, and have respect unto thy ways.
Ps 119:23 ¶ Princes also did sit [and] speak against me: [but] thy servant did meditate in thy statutes.
Ps 119:48 My hands also will I lift up unto thy commandments, which I have loved; and I will meditate in thy statutes.
Ps 119:78 ¶ Let the proud be ashamed; for they dealt perversely with me without a cause: [but] I will meditate in thy precepts.
Ps 119:148 Mine eyes prevent the [night] watches, that I might meditate in thy word.
Ps 143:5 I remember the days of old; I meditate on all thy works; I muse on the work of thy hands.
Lu 21:14 Settle [it] therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer:
1Ti 4:15 Meditate upon these things; give thyself wholly to them; that thy profiting may appear to all.

the event you speak of is what the Bible calls a trance.

Ac 10:10 And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance,
Ac 11:5 I was in the city of Joppa praying: and in a trance I saw a vision, A certain vessel descend, as it had been a great sheet, let down from heaven by four corners; and it came even to me:
Ac 22:17 And it came to pass, that, when I was come again to Jerusalem, even while I prayed in the temple, I was in a trance;

some have had this even while their eyes were open.

It has been my experience you can learn things in a trance.

the last thing of which some of this is is a dream state(REM). Dreams need not always be considered real because sometimes they are the result of the body's chemistry, and the business of the day that gives us dreams.

Ec 5:3 For a dream cometh through the multitude of business; and a fool's voice [is known] by multitude of words.
Ec 5:7 For in the multitude of dreams and many words [there are] also [divers] vanities: but fear thou God.

Samadhi is not deliberate. Samadhi is meditation. The things that you speak are states similar of produced by Neigong. The pathetic ignorance of reality made westerners to employ the wrong word and the wrong methods. Meditation is neither "state of being" neither achievable. Meditation's root is in the Latin word "meditor" and is like Neigong a process.

Latin
Etymology
requentative of medeor ‎(“to heal, to cure, to remedy”)

This said, you are experiencing relative fluxation of your energy due to overpowering of the positive principle in you(thus the negative gifts come out together with the tiredness). REM would be e higher state of lucidity in my practical experience.




when I said that samadhi is not deliberate, I must point that in reality is non-deliberate deliberation(paradox).just to make it clear.

originally posted by: Lassiecat

when I said that samadhi is not deliberate, I must point that in reality is non-deliberate deliberation(paradox).just to make it clear.

Clear enough for me. I love paradoxes. One who understands paradoxes has a great understanding.

I have this type of thing happen, often when I ride the bus oddly enough. I jump thinking I've missed my stop but it was literally like 30 seconds..

You can non diliberatly fall into a trance, like playinng a phone game tat doesn't require much attention, you just kinda zone out, while your body produces the functions to continue your actions. (Tapping usually) in this state the game seems pointless, and as does most things around you, until you shake it off and continue your actions with intent.

originally posted by: SpongeBeard
a reply to: Ruiner1978

Do you have a different state that you associate with daydreaming?
It sounds like daytime parahypnagogia.

Paper on Daytime Parahypnagogia

DPH is more likely to occur when one is tired, bored, suffering from attention fatigue, and/or engaged in a passive activity. Individuals describe DPH as a transient and fleeting episode that is dissociative, trance-like, dreamlike, uncanny, and often pleasurable; but, unlike a daydream, it is not self-directed. A DPH episode is spontaneous and may consist of a flash image, thought, and/or creative insight that is quickly forgotten. However, the individual remains aware of having had a DPH experience.

Yes, when I daydream I'm actively thinking about or imagining something and my mind runs with it while still being pretty conscious of my surroundings and what I'm physically doing.
This is different in that I'm so relaxed I'm not thinking about anything, but not unconscious. Then blammo! I'm suddenly somewhere and someone else for a few seconds, then snap out of it.
It's definitely trance like.

Daytime Parahypnagogia does sound similar. Will read up more on it. Thanks.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Ruiner1978

define meditation.

It can mean to "think deeply on" a subject or thought.

It can mean an altered state of mind or being. Which seems to be what you are leaning upon.

Sorry, I should have specified.
I don't mean the "thinking deeply" type. I suppose I'm referring to the "No mind" type, people talk of entering this state and seeing visions and such.
I don't really know much about and just wondered if these trances are the same thing.

a reply to: Ruiner1978

yes they would be similar things. But different for Bible believers and secular persons.

a reply to: Ruiner1978
Meditation is not a subconscious state so dreaming is not meditation.
You can spontaneously enter a meditative (self reflective) state.
Ever deepening that is where intentional concentration comes in and a correct posture and focus, to the point of self realization.

Which is not a ego self realization but something much deeper, joyous, ecstatic, and eternal.

The ego is a false construct and the cold mentality is not heart centered.

So it's not a "mental" thing.

Beyond thought and fantasy.

The heart of all.

originally posted by: Ruiner1978
I'm wondering if it's possible to enter meditation states without actively meaning to.

If you want my opinion hell yes. It happens to me when I drift in thought all the time. The best meditation is effortless. I will even snap out of it with awe and reverence and a yurning to go back.

I've never tried meditation so I don't know the experience of these states first hand, but I sometimes have odd experiences on the bus coming home from work.

Sometimes I'm absolutely exhausted after work, mentally and physically, and rest my eyes once I'm on the bus. I don't think I fall asleep, as I'm still aware that I'm on a bus, but sometimes after a few minutes of resting with my eyes closed, I suddenly enter a hyper vivid and lucid sort of dream state.

Exactly how it happens with me. Between sleep and alertness, when my body wants rest and my mind wants peace. The brain can't be shut down without death so takes the opportunity to sooth and elucidate itself.

Often it's like I hear voices having a conversation or passing on information. Sometimes I'm one of the voices. It always kind of shocks me back "awake", not a fear shock, more a wow! weird! kind of thing, and I have no memory of anything that was said.

Sometimes I have strange quick visions that I do remember. Sometimes comical, sometimes bizarre and nonsensical, sometimes pure horrific. I'm often someone else but still me if that makes sense. Snippets of some scenario that last 3 or 4 seconds and seem normal until I snap back to reality.

So I guess my question is are these experiences similar to ones achieved by those who practice meditation, or am I just entering straight into a light REM sleep or something due to being so knackered?

I don't practice meditation in the way you mean in your question, like yoga.

What you described is how I practice meditation.

I find sitting in the sun another great form of meditation. And reading scripture (not just or even mostly the Bible).

Meditation is yours to use as you please, how you please and find most effective. But I would bet that yoga meditation and the like does induce the states you described.

Seems to be some kind of mix between empath/telepathic exchange happening in your unconscious that do not break the barrier to conscious level since you cannot remember the information.

Often happens to me when tired but never during meditation. The switch between my subconscious and conscious remains open for a short time allowing me to hear and sometimes experience images before l am fully asleep.

True Meditation has absolutely nothing to do with triggering special fx in the mind. It's not about inducing mystical experiences, summoning archetypal encounters or any manner of visualization or imagination. It is not to conjur phenomenal experiences for the purposes of interpreting them into something meaningful. Meditation is the simple act of being aware without being entangled. Wether your eyes are open or not, wether you are doing action or not, is of little importance. Whatever you see dazzling on the screen of your conscious awareness during meditation, be aware of it...but invest no interpretive energy into it whatsoever. Just be what you already are, the observer of it.

Meditation is what widens the gap which allows you to discern the difference between you, and the phenomenon being observed (including the mind). Similar to being in a movie theater and knowing the difference between yourself, and the movie playing on the screen. When this is firmly established in you, you will no longer go in and out of the meditative state...it'll be permanent. In other words, you will always be aware of this difference, No matter what you're doing..the meditative state (which is not a stoic or comatose state) remains. If, however, you allow yourself to be enchanted with the phenomenal images appearing during these moments...you're missing the whole point.

People talk about "mindful meditation" - I'm convinced there's a "mindless meditation", which could be similar to Zen states.

It's possible, your experience itself should tell you that.

Good for you. Good luck.

a reply to: Visitor2012

You're right but to be fair there are different types of meditation with different types of goals.

a reply to: TheLaughingGod

What is being looked for in meditation? Can you state any of the goals?

a reply to: Itisnowagain

I suppose that depends on the goals of the meditator. Why do you ask me this? I don't know.

a reply to: TheLaughingGod
I ask because of your reply to Visitor 2012.

You're right but to be fair there are different types of meditation with different types of goals.

You state that there are different types of meditation with different goals - so I just wondered if you knew any. Just one would do.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

I don't see the point. If you just want to find out about different types just google it, you'll find plenty.