How Marxism&Communism Destroys Our Civilization...2016-06-16

a reply to: Gryphon66

I read it at Uni.

a reply to: anotherdaytoday

You forget that people are individuals and they are not the same. They tried "benevolent" communes already in 1825 in the US - it failed bc there are always lazy and and bad people who abuse any "common property", other people and they refuse to work. Communism is a fairy tale dream invented by people who are looking for absolute power and it will never come to any result whatsoever. Many religions were very good before being hijacked by non-believers bc religions realized that you have to balance good and evil by having families where man and woman can interact and create children in a pretty harmonious lifestyle, the most harmonious you will find on earth. Humans need benevolent but strict regulations in order to not collapse immediately. This is the truth of history. Marxism is now at the end of the end and will be replaced by a new system. It had its 50-100 years of power but quickly disappears.

"The only friends of the people are the traditionalists" is an old saying.. Id say it has a lot of truth in it.

originally posted by: Kandinsky
a reply to: Gryphon66

I read it at Uni.

Yep.

So, do you think that knowing what others say about Marxism and Communism is better than reading it first hand?

How many who carp about either, daily, do you think have actually read Marx?

a reply to: Gryphon66

Optimistically?

Not many.

originally posted by: Kandinsky
a reply to: Gryphon66

Optimistically?

Not many.

Exactly.

I had hoped that a few here would click and read at least the first few paragraphs ... even that might demonstrate that the core ideas are not as big and scary as often presented.

Now, what people do with them, like what people do with the Bible, or the Koran or even our Constitution is another matter.

But ... a statement like "The history of all hitherto existing society is the history of class struggles." is just ... poetic in its simplicity.

But I digress.

a reply to: Gryphon66

But ... a statement like "The history of all hitherto existing society is the history of class struggles." is just ... poetic in its simplicity.

Poetic, simple, but false.

Class conflict is a notion Marx advanced in Das Kapital (Volume 1). If you haven't read it you should give it a go...at least to demonstrate you understand a thing or two about the core ideas. Class conflict is actually big and scary.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

The history of how heavily the concept of Class Warfare was suppressed in America is rarely examined.

Far more people know the words to "Joe Hill" than understand his message.

I am lucky enough to have found a copy of "USA" by John Dos Passos a long time ago.

I agree completely with you about the "pie fallacy".

Zero sum thinking is a 19th century concept, like Marxism.

Sadly lots of political and economic thinking is 200 years behind reality.

Best wishes..

a reply to: draoicht

Class warfare in a classless society only exists to people who want to create schisms in that society.

America is a nation where an immigrant can come to America with no money and become a business owner and employer.

American is a nation where a millionaire can lose everything and end up mopping floors.

America is a nation where a son of a single mom can be raised by socialist and communists, then be voted President of a capitalist republic.

America is a nation where a son of a President can be rejected in place of a loud-mouth braggart.

Class warfare in America is empty rhetoric.

a reply to: Teikiatsu

Yes, It is called American dream and is exactly what it is: a dream. In fact in "socialistic" Scandinavia is vertical social mobility higher than in capitalistic USA.

Or we do not share common meaning of term class. Can you define it?

originally posted by: Hazardous1408
Sieze the means of production from the bourgeoisie.

You mad, comrade?

The means of production is inside the heads of the innovators and the creators of the world. So you are (apparently unwittingly) telling the ugly truth about what socialism seeks to do. To own people and deprive them of their private property. Right down to every thought that goes through their mind.

A machine can only produce what it was built to produce. You can't invent a new means of production without someone who has the idea. If you wish to seize that person you are essentially talking about slavery.

Now of course all government is slavery by one way or another but one of the selling points the socialists (supposedly) had was their ideas were not slavery and they were all about justice. Which is not true. All it does is steals the fruits of other people's labor and redistributes it in a way that is deemed to be fair by people who apparently deem themselves to be superior beings.

The whole thing falls apart from there because if that's what you want, you've already got that and you don't have to turn the planet upside down reorganizing everything to get the same result.

a reply to: Teikiatsu

Class warfare is a result of 1% of the population living in opulent decadence while another large portion of the population need to work three jobs to try and stay alive. As the schism between the rest of society and the rich and powerful few grows ever larger, more and more people are going to notice, and more and more people are going to start sharpening pitchforks.

Here's a simple test to see if you're still under a trance: Who creates jobs?

a reply to: BrianFlanders

It's fairly true that the US is already quite Socialist, it's just that all the money flows up into the hands of the already-wealthy rather than down into the arms of those who actually need it.

One of the problems when it comes to creators (particularly of artwork and entertainment) is that megacorporations (particularly Disney) have successfully lobbied to extend the copyright duration to a ridiculous extent. As it is now, copyright is there for the sake of corporations keeping a stranglehold on creative enterprise, not for making sure an artist's work isn't stolen.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: Gryphon66

But ... a statement like "The history of all hitherto existing society is the history of class struggles." is just ... poetic in its simplicity.

Poetic, simple, but false.

Class conflict is a notion Marx advanced in Das Kapital (Volume 1). If you haven't read it you should give it a go...at least to demonstrate you understand a thing or two about the core ideas. Class conflict is actually big and scary.

Your pomposity truly knows no bounds sometimes.

1. Why is the statement false? Because you say so? Prove it.

2. What I quoted is literally the first line of Chapter I of The Manifesto and is perhaps the most oft-quoted line from it. Certainly if one wished to study Marxist thought more intently, there are several additional texts to read. That has no relationship to my suggestion, however.

3. Perhaps sometimes you should deal with what people actually say rather than merely the way you wish to portray it. Pointedly, you don't know what I've read or what I know and therefore, you have no reason to comment on the contents of your own imagination.

originally posted by: Teikiatsu
a reply to: draoicht

Class warfare in a classless society only exists to people who want to create schisms in that society.

America is a nation where an immigrant can come to America with no money and become a business owner and employer.

American is a nation where a millionaire can lose everything and end up mopping floors.

America is a nation where a son of a single mom can be raised by socialist and communists, then be voted President of a capitalist republic.

America is a nation where a son of a President can be rejected in place of a loud-mouth braggart.

Class warfare in America is empty rhetoric.

Yet, your examples clearly demonstrate different classes in American society, the difference being that the promise of America still counters the historical stratification of class by allowing far greater fluidity between those classes.

You have eloquently explained why America is somewhat unique in history, but indeed at the same time, you've proven that a class structure still exists, even here.

a reply to: Teikiatsu

Nowhere in my post is there any suggestion that I advocate class warfare.

I merely commented on how the 1%, who clearly form a different "class", used violence and lies to suppress the concept.

Sadly, your assertion that America is a classless society is not supported by the evidence.

Class warfare appears to be conducted by the rich against the poor all too often.

My post was just a reflection on how history shows they successfully suppressed ideas that might change that course of events.

No offence was intended.

originally posted by: Eilasvaleleyn
a reply to: BrianFlanders

It's fairly true that the US is already quite Socialist

Yes, but you need to understand what that really means. It actually means that the US is already pretty damn totalitarian. Because ALL government strives for totalitarianism as it's ultimate goal, whether they admit it or not. Socialism was designed from the ground up to be a shortcut to totalitarianism. Just take away anything that limits the power of the state right off the bat and you have a damn good foundation for totalitarianism a lot faster than you will if you have to deal with all sorts of pesky issues like private property and people believing they have a right to their own individuality. That kind of thing is a dense force field against an authoritarian government.

So immediately. As soon as a government (any government) is formed, the first thing it encounters is resistance to the authority it has taken for itself. Even if it starts with "the consent of the governed" that isn't going to last too long when the people who signed the first permission slip start to die off and their children and grandchildren start to say "Wait a second. I never signed that! When did anyone ever ask me for my consent?"

And of course, they're right. Being born is not giving consent to be governed by a government that's older than your great grandparents.

So even a brand new government will immediately have to deal with people who don't want to conform to stuff they never voted for. And new stuff is being passed all the time that no one is really voting for. Once it establishes itself as the only legitimate authority, a government instantly gains a lot of momentum and is all but impossible to reason with.

"For the people" and "by the people" all sounds nice but it doesn't mean #. The government can't work without having enough power to crush any resistance it might encounter. Realistically, you can't have a functional government that takes ten years to obtain informed consent on everything it wants to do. So they can't afford to care what you think. They can't afford to ask for permission. They can't afford to have your individuality getting in the way.

So what do they do? They build consensus by any means necessary and they use it as a battering ram, basically. They have no choice. It's either organization or chaos and you cannot have 300 million geniuses running a country. What you'll have is a few million people who really understand what's happening and 290 million idiots running into walls and bickering amongst themselves.

And that's where propaganda comes in. It doesn't matter what they tell you. It can be a complete lie (and often is). As long as it gets people into manageable groups and marginalizes the people who don't want what you're going to give them that's all that matters. Then all you have to do is make sure the largest group agrees with what you're going to give them and the next largest group believes they got a fair shake.


Anyway, the "elites" know they might as well run the show because it's not going to be a show without them anyway. No matter what type of system you think is going to be better, you're always going to have the elites. They're born with natural gifts for science, propaganda, subterfuge, engineering and manipulation and whether we like it or not, they at least know what they're doing. We can be happy with the crappy system we've got or we can let them change the rules on us while we sleep. Personally, that scares the hell out of me. I'd rather live under the unfair rules that I know than have them changed on me after I've spent 40 years learning to accept them. Either way, they will rise to the top, as it is in their nature.

originally posted by: Gaussq

This article shows clearly how communism is advancing on all fronts all over the world - it is a global dictatorship arriving from nowhere because people don´t have the proper information and mainstream media won´t tell them anything. Look at the stats: family is destroyed, people are lonely without real friends and relatives, Religion is dead, Traditions are dead, the elite push for forced urbanization, Agenda 2030 by the UN is signed by the whole world including all dictator states(is that a coincidence or are the dictators just friends of the "democratic" presidents??), the State takes the land by force in the US, laws are changed without asking the people, depression rates soar in "developed" countries etc etc..

1. Current Communist Countries: China, Laos, North Korea, Vietnam, Cuba.

Past Communist Countries: Afghanistan, Albania, Angola, Benin, Bulgaria, Cambodia, Congo, Czechoslovakia, East Germany, Ethiopia, Hungary, Mongolia, Mozambique, Poland, Romania, Somalia, South Yemen, Soviet Union, and Yugoslavia. Oh, and China, Laos, North Korea, Vietnam, Cuba.

In fact, Communism is shrinking and retreating. Source


2. There are over 32 million hits on Google for "communism." Most are from media sources.

3. Families are stronger than ever and more diverse: Pew Research .

4. Eighty-three percent of Americans are Christians. There are over 300,000 Christian churches alone in the United States.

Etc. etc. etc.

Apparently, the OP is mostly mistaken ... at least, on the facts.