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posted on Jun, 14 2016 @ 01:36 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: BubbaJoe

Another way to look at this ideology is this: They are being offered the chance to fight for utopia. They're on a mission from god.


The Operative: I'm sorry. If your quarry goes to ground, leave no ground to go to. You should have taken my offer. Or did you think none of this was your fault?
Capt. Malcolm Reynolds: I don't murder children.
The Operative: I do. If I have to.
Capt. Malcolm Reynolds: Why? Do you even know why they sent you?
The Operative: It's not my place to ask. I believe in something greater than myself. A better world. A world without sin.
Capt. Malcolm Reynolds: So me and mine gotta lay down and die... so you can live in your better world?
The Operative: I'm not going to live there. There's no place for me there... any more than there is for you. Malcolm... I'm a monster. What I do is evil. I have no illusions about it, but it must be done.
Serenity

This exchange between Mal and the Operative from Serenity sort of typifies it. There is nothing they won't do, no evil that can't be excused for their ideology and the world they believe they will bring about through their actions. ISIS offers them that to look to. They may not, likely will not ever live in that world. In fact, they will all pretty much die, but ISIS also promises them Paradise if they do carry out these acts.

This what we have to find an ideology to combat. We have to find something they can believe in that will keep them from thinking that is a better belief.

And we aren't going to do it by discussing how this word and that word are racist and should be banned from even being uttered. Why this person and person and that person did or did not pay enough in taxes and if that does or does not make them evil greedy bastards. Whether or not America as we know it is an evil nation that is illegitimate or a good one.


I understand what you are saying, just not sure how to prosecute a war on an ideology, it hasn't worked out very well in the past.

Not dropping bombs on their friends and family might be a good start, but am not sure that will work. The two largest sects of islam kill each other on a regular basis and have since the split. Much like the Catholic - Protestant wars of Midieval Europe.




posted on Jun, 14 2016 @ 01:58 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

Judging people and sending the unworthy to God isn't much different than sending people to God and letting him judge them.
edit on 14-6-2016 by Aazadan because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 14 2016 @ 02:55 PM
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a reply to: BubbaJoe

The only thing I can think of that might work is to offer up a competing ideology.

They are looking for something to believe in. ISIS gives it to them and sells it effectively.

People need something to believe in, always have, always will. We live in a secular, materialistic world. It is spiritually empty. Some people find causes to fill that void; that's where BLM, SJWs, the green movement, and others like them come from. Some people turn to various religions. Some people find hedonism, sometimes mixed with various degrees of nihilism.

ISIS offers their perspective and it fits that empty spot.

As hard as this is to comprehend, we need to come up with a counter message to that. Something that can fill that void.



posted on Jun, 14 2016 @ 02:57 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

Christian Church response is usually to 'send missionaries'. Obviously we can't do that. Life expectancy would be too short.

But I wonder why Muslims can't send 'missionaries' to teach a different view. Maybe for the same reason as above.



posted on Jun, 14 2016 @ 03:04 PM
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Didn't bother me emotionally a bit, but if it did to anyone else, it's because the media designs it that way. We really won't have time to let it rest. ISIS (or the CIA) is about to ramp up attacks on 6 more states, and has a hit list of thousands of individuals (most likely influential political enemies of Obama and Hillary) that they are going to kill. Trump may be one...I don't know. I'm guessing that Obama will have an eye injury pretty soon, if he's the on the Bible described. I suppose that would fit the "one eye" of the illuminati symbolism.



posted on Jun, 14 2016 @ 03:05 PM
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originally posted by: Aazadan
a reply to: ketsuko

Judging people and sending the unworthy to God isn't much different than sending people to God and letting him judge them.


The difference is, that the ones who sent them to God....are playing God.



posted on Jun, 14 2016 @ 03:08 PM
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originally posted by: IlluminatiTechnician
Didn't bother me emotionally a bit, but if it did to anyone else, it's because the media designs it that way. We really won't have time to let it rest. ISIS (or the CIA) is about to ramp up attacks on 6 more states, and has a hit list of thousands of individuals (most likely influential political enemies of Obama and Hillary) that they are going to kill. Trump may be one...I don't know. I'm guessing that Obama will have an eye injury pretty soon, if he's the on the Bible described. I suppose that would fit the "one eye" of the illuminati symbolism.


Got any links or is this just your interpretation of the book of "Revelations"

Interesting senario though!!
edit on 14-6-2016 by olaru12 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 14 2016 @ 03:09 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko


Unfortunately, most people are looking for something "hopeful" to believe in. ISIS brings death, mayhem and destruction. Those who consider that "something to believe in", are already evil of the worst type. How would one offer a competing force to that? I mean, we are already bombing every nation under the sun, what other Hope can we offer them?



posted on Jun, 14 2016 @ 03:11 PM
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originally posted by: angeldoll
a reply to: ketsuko

Christian Church response is usually to 'send missionaries'. Obviously we can't do that. Life expectancy would be too short.

But I wonder why Muslims can't send 'missionaries' to teach a different view. Maybe for the same reason as above.



Unfortunately, their life expectancy would be equally as short.



posted on Jun, 14 2016 @ 03:16 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: BubbaJoe

The only thing I can think of that might work is to offer up a competing ideology.

They are looking for something to believe in. ISIS gives it to them and sells it effectively.

People need something to believe in, always have, always will. We live in a secular, materialistic world. It is spiritually empty. Some people find causes to fill that void; that's where BLM, SJWs, the green movement, and others like them come from. Some people turn to various religions. Some people find hedonism, sometimes mixed with various degrees of nihilism.

ISIS offers their perspective and it fits that empty spot.

As hard as this is to comprehend, we need to come up with a counter message to that. Something that can fill that void.


Outside of ISIS, I cannot imagine an ideology that would attract those that have no concept of freedom, want to live in a theocracy, where women are 2nd class citizens or property, and sold or swapped as sex slaves. I guess I am just not evil enough to come up with anything.

Plenty of food, clean water, jobs, houses, bombs not falling on their heads?



posted on Jun, 14 2016 @ 04:43 PM
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originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: BubbaJoe

There is a little convenience store/gas station right down the road from me, it's where I fill up the car. Cheaper in Oregon, and he's the cheapest in that stretch of the road...

He's originally from Yemen. Muslim. He's scared #less...some jackwad came in and pointed the classic finger gun at him today. Wife, two children (boy and a girl), nice folks. They're not Muslim, they're as Christian as you could ask for...guess what, doesn't seem to matter.


I am thinking things like this too. Same for my Jewish friend who's over for drinks. I am paranoid for her, I see an awful lot of anti semitic BS online too. She's an American. Or as she puts it: "I'm from Michigan."

We are on the W side o'Chi Town here. Hipster Land. Practically Berwyn. Which is, what Our God, Svengoolie, told us was The Promised Land.



No, not quite and where we are here is more $$. So that then makes you a YUPPY. Even if you landed here by accident or got a cheap deal. Your ZIP code = Yuppy.

There certainly are a mixed bag of people here and you'd better be able to get along with everyone. We're packed in like sardines here and there are people from all over the world. Not the place for those with particular grudges.

What I thought of, from your post, is this liquor store I go to off and on. Here, you can buy all booze at grocery stores, and gas stations, pretty much 24 /7, so many of these "Mom and Pop" stores are fading away.

This guy is hanging on and he's a very nice guy. I'll stop in there here and there, and enough of people do.

I thought this guy might be middle eastern, now I think he's Indian. I'm not sure nor do I care. He speaks English, he's got the "Classic Rock" radio station on in there (which he often sings along with), and after one of our bad storms, yeah everybody going out for booze after such a mess, talk about that, he said: "My basement is flooded". Including the usual dismayed and hang dog look on the face.

This makes him a Chicagoan. Classic Rock? Basement flooded? = CHICAGOAN



posted on Jun, 14 2016 @ 05:04 PM
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originally posted by: DBCowboy
Give it time.

Lets heal a bit before we nuke a country, ban a firearm, ban a religion, hate on a religion.

Lets make a decision with all our faculties intact. Lets be cold, hard and sure of ourselves.

Lets grieve. Lets cry. Lets rage.

Then calmly make decisions that will affect us forever.

Just my opinion folks, take it for what it's worth.


I often find myself noting your posts and the profundity of the message often lying therein.

This OP is no exception. Beautifully put, a testament to the rational mind that lies in all of us.

I have nothing to add but this thread, in general, is refreshing. It's nice to see people discussing things like adults without crap being flung and paying attention to the bigger picture at hand.





posted on Jun, 14 2016 @ 06:50 PM
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a reply to: DBCowboy

Brother, Yes we have freedoms but we are not that unique we can still balance our freedoms with our security needs, and had we taken steps to apply common sense laws ah donno ..after the first 10 times?? maybe we wouldn't be having this conversation . not an absolute guarantee mind you, but to make it less likely, if a guy who is too dangerous to get on an air plane there is no reason he should have access to an AR-15 the favored weapon of small destruction in the U.S , if we agree that there are crazy ppl, ppl who want to wreck havoc for some cause or another then lets stop pussy footing around and get it done already.

A multi pronged approach is necessary including but not limited to certain types of weapons, but whenever we start down that road it is drowned out and so nothing gets done and the problem continues, other democracies similar to our own have crazies and would be terrorist in their midst what they don't have is easy access to WSD.


edit on 14-6-2016 by Spider879 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 14 2016 @ 08:57 PM
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a reply to: Spider879

Before we look at possible solutions, might we look at those that would be providing them?

We can talk about solving problems all day, but in the end, we are captives to those we have elected.



posted on Jun, 14 2016 @ 09:23 PM
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Beautiful words...well said.

We will never find a solution to a problem we cant even refer to by name. Our wonderful leader is turning Islamic terror into Lord Voldemort... "We dare not speak his name..."

If one muslim terrorist does not represent all muslims, can someone please tell me why he represents all gun owners? The answer is not banning a type of gun, or all guns for that matter. If making something illegal made it go away please explain the drug problem in this country... (I will wait as long as it takes to get an answer to that one...)

The biggest problem we face is not terrorists. It is people who can not and will not acknowledge the truth. The truth hurts. The truth is ugly. The truth can make you change your opinion. The truth can make you angry. But truth is the only answer. Lies got us here. Lies will not get us home any more than spending will get us out of debt. It just doesn't work that way.

God bless us all, we surely need it.



posted on Jun, 14 2016 @ 09:42 PM
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a reply to: BubbaJoe

See? Maybe it's just me, but I can't think it's what they really want. At least I can't think it's what most of them want. No doubt there are some who do very much want that exactly.

I think that they want the same thing that those who push socialism and communism so hard want - they think that they will get a perfect world utopia if only everyone bought it perfectly this time. No more death, suffering, want, conflict, etc., Heaven on earth. All they have to do is make sure everything thinks, acts, believes exactly like they do one way or another. They have no qualms about using any and all tactics to achieve this. Shi'a 12vers will even seek to bring about the end of the world if that's what it will take.

True believers in socialism and communism suffer from the same disease, but are usually much less violent about it. However, they found their expressions in Mao and Stalin too who killed millions on their way to the perfect society ... utopia.

There is a barn we drive by every time we go to my visit my folks. For years, it has had the same slogan - "No God ... No Peace" one the top line with "Know God ... Know Peace" right underneath. This is intended to be interpreted in the spiritual sense, of course. The meaning being that if you find faith and accept it, it brings peace and acceptance to your life. It is an internal thing.

For Muslims like this, this message would be more externalized. If you do not know Allah, you will have no peace from them, ever, until you are either dead or forced to submit which is what Islam means.

But it isn't about reveling in death as much as it the mad belief that if they only destroy everyone who refuses to be exactly like them, the world will suddenly become a Paradise on earth as far as I can tell.



posted on Jun, 14 2016 @ 10:15 PM
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originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Spider879

Before we look at possible solutions, might we look at those that would be providing them?

We can talk about solving problems all day, but in the end, we are captives to those we have elected.

C'mon bro, this is where gridlock begins and no solutions put in place, because party affiliations backed up by private interest takes precedence , there was a time when we could at specific problems and iron out solutions to that problem while keeping our distinctive political outlook and not auto-assume that because one side came up with a suggestion it's therefore wrong the NRA used to be better and more responsible but today they are just mouth pieces or lobbyist for small arms manufacturer.



posted on Jun, 14 2016 @ 10:36 PM
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originally posted by: onequestion
We need leaders who are level headed enough to act quickly and without emotion.

People who can set aside their emotions and respond in an effective manner that both sets political tensions and feeling of security at ease not morons who incite racial violence and use events as opportunities to go after political gun grabs.


You're describing a Sociopath, which they are already that to begin with.

It makes them more effective at Disaster Capitalization.



posted on Jun, 14 2016 @ 10:39 PM
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a reply to: DBCowboy

The OP should be made into a meme, in the Keep Calm; Carry On style.
Then, it needs to be treated like a Wanted poster;
Strategically posted for maximum exposure.

And, like a Wanted poster, those who take it down
(or disagree)
are up to no good.



posted on Jun, 14 2016 @ 10:40 PM
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a reply to: DBCowboy

No we're not, unless we allow ourselves to be captive.

We goddamned well own them, if we're willing to do the work necessary. We have the power, they only think they do. But too many of us have been fooled into thinking it's the other way around. It quite simply is not, unless we're too stupid, too lazy, or otherwise can not be bothered.

That's the only captivity I see.



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