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posted on Jun, 13 2016 @ 08:49 PM
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a reply to: BubbaJoe

Again, we have to start fighting this like it is a war.

Believe me, I don't want our own hurt anymore than you do. Our regular fish counter guy is named Hassan, and he has been nothing but friendly and outgoing and joy to have known.




posted on Jun, 13 2016 @ 08:50 PM
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a reply to: BubbaJoe

There is a little convenience store/gas station right down the road from me, it's where I fill up the car. Cheaper in Oregon, and he's the cheapest in that stretch of the road...

He's originally from Yemen. Muslim. He's scared #less...some jackwad came in and pointed the classic finger gun at him today. Wife, two children (boy and a girl), nice folks. They're not Muslim, they're as Christian as you could ask for...guess what, doesn't seem to matter.



posted on Jun, 13 2016 @ 09:00 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: BubbaJoe

Again, we have to start fighting this like it is a war.

Believe me, I don't want our own hurt anymore than you do. Our regular fish counter guy is named Hassan, and he has been nothing but friendly and outgoing and joy to have known.


How do we fight it like a war, when the Orlando shooter was an American citizen? I am not arguing you point, but trying to figure out how to prosecute it.



posted on Jun, 13 2016 @ 09:07 PM
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originally posted by: BubbaJoe

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: BubbaJoe

Again, we have to start fighting this like it is a war.

Believe me, I don't want our own hurt anymore than you do. Our regular fish counter guy is named Hassan, and he has been nothing but friendly and outgoing and joy to have known.


How do we fight it like a war, when the Orlando shooter was an American citizen? I am not arguing you point, but trying to figure out how to prosecute it.


This is what I'm talking about. My immediate response is to strike out. I want to call it a poison in our country. I want to hurt the bastard and anyone who thinks like him. I want to ignore the rational part of me that is saying, "This is what they want".



posted on Jun, 13 2016 @ 09:11 PM
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Good people will naturally find Evil hard to deal with.

Anger is a healthy reaction.

Politicians are not to be trusted to do the Right Thing.

They continually fail to defend the Constitution because their true loyalty is to Money.

Best wishes to all those seeking a way to do Good rather than Evil.




posted on Jun, 13 2016 @ 09:11 PM
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originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: BubbaJoe

There is a little convenience store/gas station right down the road from me, it's where I fill up the car. Cheaper in Oregon, and he's the cheapest in that stretch of the road...

He's originally from Yemen. Muslim. He's scared #less...some jackwad came in and pointed the classic finger gun at him today. Wife, two children (boy and a girl), nice folks. They're not Muslim, they're as Christian as you could ask for...guess what, doesn't seem to matter.


No it doesn't, my guy is muslim, but probably about as religious as most catholics, hatched, matched, and dispatched. He is a good guy, I have done business with him for years. But as a citizen of the United States, he must live in fear because of his skin color.

Will add, he is Pakistani, and all of his clerks are Indian, to any student of history, this should be an interesting statement.



posted on Jun, 13 2016 @ 09:13 PM
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That is interesting, isn't it?

That's rather cool.



posted on Jun, 13 2016 @ 09:18 PM
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a reply to: BubbaJoe

We have to fight ideology with ideology. This is not a war of nation against nation. The enemy is within our borders and he doesn't need borders. All he needs is a small population of those sympathetic to his ideology wherever he goes.

It's like cancer in a way. The fight metastasizes.

So we have to find ways to poison that ideology, deny it what it needs. We have to fight with our own ideology and culture. I am not talking about converting them away from Islam, but showing them why living in a Western nation is an advantage for them even if it means living in a pluralistic society. We have to find ways to prove that freedoms and liberties are better than Shari'a and conversion by the sword.

And we have to starve them out.



posted on Jun, 13 2016 @ 09:19 PM
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originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: BubbaJoe

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: BubbaJoe

Again, we have to start fighting this like it is a war.

Believe me, I don't want our own hurt anymore than you do. Our regular fish counter guy is named Hassan, and he has been nothing but friendly and outgoing and joy to have known.


How do we fight it like a war, when the Orlando shooter was an American citizen? I am not arguing you point, but trying to figure out how to prosecute it.


This is what I'm talking about. My immediate response is to strike out. I want to call it a poison in our country. I want to hurt the bastard and anyone who thinks like him. I want to ignore the rational part of me that is saying, "This is what they want".


DBC, and I am assuming you are in the USA, about 15% far right, 15% far left, and 70% are trying to figure out how to survive, raise our families, and take care of our parents, I fall in the last category, yeah I am old. We all want to call it many things and point fingers, but those actions create no cures to the problems our country faces. I did my time in the military, have probably done all I can do, I hope there are those younger than I, that actually have some common sense, and step up to defend what has existed for over 200 years.



posted on Jun, 13 2016 @ 09:21 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

To add, this is going to be a problem for us because right now, we are in the midst of something of a crisis of culture attacking our own roots and past every which way from Sunday trying to convince ourselves that everything about our nation and its founding was illegitimate, racist, and evil.



posted on Jun, 13 2016 @ 09:22 PM
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a reply to: BubbaJoe

I'm an old man, I thought I hung up my guns a while back.

But sometimes you don't have to come to the fight. Sometimes, the fight comes to you.



posted on Jun, 13 2016 @ 09:25 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: BubbaJoe

We have to fight ideology with ideology. This is not a war of nation against nation. The enemy is within our borders and he doesn't need borders. All he needs is a small population of those sympathetic to his ideology wherever he goes.

It's like cancer in a way. The fight metastasizes.

So we have to find ways to poison that ideology, deny it what it needs. We have to fight with our own ideology and culture. I am not talking about converting them away from Islam, but showing them why living in a Western nation is an advantage for them even if it means living in a pluralistic society. We have to find ways to prove that freedoms and liberties are better than Shari'a and conversion by the sword.

And we have to starve them out.


I am not sure how to prove that, but your last statement has much meaning. We need to take away their resources, and literally starve them out. We will never beat them with ideology, too much of America is Christian, you can't fight holy book with holy book, there are no winners there. Unfortunately, many Christians in America do not want to live in a pluralistic society, or allow others freedom. We really don't have much to offer on that front.



posted on Jun, 13 2016 @ 09:27 PM
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originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: BubbaJoe

I'm an old man, I thought I hung up my guns a while back.

But sometimes you don't have to come to the fight. Sometimes, the fight comes to you.


Brother, I am old man too, and sometimes we do not agree, but when it comes right down to it, I got your 6.



posted on Jun, 13 2016 @ 09:32 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: ketsuko

To add, this is going to be a problem for us because right now, we are in the midst of something of a crisis of culture attacking our own roots and past every which way from Sunday trying to convince ourselves that everything about our nation and its founding was illegitimate, racist, and evil.


We are in a crisis, the founding of our nation was racist, not buying evil of illegitimate. We continued to be an extremely racist nation for another 75 years, and if you include Jim Crow laws, for another 150 years. My ancestors held slaves in what we would consider non-slave states today, but that was 400 years ago.



posted on Jun, 13 2016 @ 09:34 PM
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a reply to: BubbaJoe

I think that when you get right to it, we all do.




posted on Jun, 13 2016 @ 09:38 PM
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a reply to: DBCowboy

I agree with ya, except for this,


ban a religion, hate on a religion.


I think we can do that, and right away.

Islamic terrorism is what it was.



posted on Jun, 13 2016 @ 09:44 PM
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a reply to: DBCowboy

This was a tragedy, but the way that our leaders are twisting it for political gain really is disgusting.

While I didn't know anyone who was there, I did tend to take this a bit personal, mainly because this struck so close to home. (My home here is within walking distance) Taking a step backwards and a couple of deep breaths can help all of us re-center and heal.



posted on Jun, 13 2016 @ 09:48 PM
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a reply to: BubbaJoe

Yes, those things happened, but just because they did, did not mean that the nation we have, the laws in the COTUS that protect a Christian's right to be who they are, an athiest's right to be who they are, and even a Muslim's right to be who they are, are evil or illegitimate.

That is the mistake that is being made.

And the very fact that you and I are right now having this discussion and cannot at least agree that our own country is something worth defending as a worthwhile place, is why we are losing and will lose and they will win. It is why they can radicalize more because this type of discussion plays out. Muslims in this country see in many, many different places that this is a mean, evil racist country, so they look for something that is righteous and good ... and ISIS and other radical orgs give it to them. They fight for Allah and those innocents in Florida paid the price.



posted on Jun, 13 2016 @ 09:50 PM
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originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: BubbaJoe

I think that when you get right to it, we all do.



I think that those of us of a certain age do, especially those of us with military service. Our younger generation is lacking, and they don't have anyone's back, they are only looking out for themselves, and not doing a good job of that.



posted on Jun, 13 2016 @ 09:57 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: BubbaJoe

Yes, those things happened, but just because they did, did not mean that the nation we have, the laws in the COTUS that protect a Christian's right to be who they are, an athiest's right to be who they are, and even a Muslim's right to be who they are, are evil or illegitimate.

That is the mistake that is being made.

And the very fact that you and I are right now having this discussion and cannot at least agree that our own country is something worth defending as a worthwhile place, is why we are losing and will lose and they will win. It is why they can radicalize more because this type of discussion plays out. Muslims in this country see in many, many different places that this is a mean, evil racist country, so they look for something that is righteous and good ... and ISIS and other radical orgs give it to them. They fight for Allah and those innocents in Florida paid the price.


Please go back and read, I agreed with racist, not evil or illegitimate. I spent 7 years defending this country, so no need to justify that for me. You do realize that this country is sometimes mean and evil, and racist, and while radical muslims will embrace that, and use it to recruit. Fundamental Christians will push the same agenda just to preach hate, WBC is a perfect example.




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