ATS - Needs moderation - no support

a reply to: southbeach

Nobody has that many accounts. That's a copout people with bad ideas or theories use to justify why so many people are shooting them down. I've been accused of this so many times I can't even count it. It's kind of a pathetic argument.

originally posted by: Triton1128
Why have forums about UFO's or threads about Atlantis / Lost civilization if all you do is allow naysayers to scat on ANYONE who wants to think out side the box? This site has much potential but I feel its been in free fall for years now.

How can you support a thread, an idea, or forum, when you allow the SAME individuals ( literally just a handful ) to consistently crap all over anyone's idea. How can you EXPECT new comers to share a thought, when like clockwork, the same members come in.. counter, gang up, and basically tell you you're an idiot for thinking that way. I have backed out of so many threads over the years just because one, or two users are active in it, basically telling anyone that doesn't agree with "them" they are stupid.

I'm tired of them using one liners, or falling back on " Not having time to educate the simple minded. Or it was already stated many threads ago". But if YOU want to share/prove something, you need to supply certified reports from government agency's to prove anything.

Moderate ATS. Do your job. Want me to stop using ad block, want me to donate my hard earned money to support your site? Make it one I'd WANT to support. Kick out users that don't support WHY this site was created in the first place. Heck Id PAY to have you boot a few people if it meant allowing lurkers to feel like they could actually post their thoughts without being burned at the stake.

/RANT OVER

Look...this is a tough crowd.

This site may be "ABOUT CONSPIRACY THEORIES" to you....but that doesnt give you license to spout crap all day or lie (im not talking about you, by the way...but i have logged in in the past just to complain or to post to those who not only ran off the deep end, but dove head first into the abyss).

There are a number of no nos when it comes to conspiracy theories.

If it requires thousands of people be in on it, then yes, there will actually be government certified reports or documents somewhere.

If youre conspiracy theory on why the term hot dog was invented to control the minds of pre-pubescent latinos everywhere requires every doctor and every scientist, physicist, and police officer/food cart worker since time immemorial to keep up a fantastic lie about their field, its just not happening.

This doesnt mean that these things arent fun to talk about.

But when you have a theory youd like to explore, dont LIE. Dont say "x IS x BECAUSE I KNOW IT!".

And dont claim things as fact when its clear that they require a giant assumption.

Here's a fact for you of my own:

I respond to 99 percent of the most outrageous crap i see.

I actually dont respond to 99 percent of the stuff i see....i have a high bar.

And...

I respond to 0 threads in an effort to debunk or rain on a mans parade, especially if they simply say "lets explore.....x" in the beginning, or if they make qulifications about their data, or if theyre clearly already have a few working brain cells.

The issue with virtually 99.9% (an invented statistic that can only anecdotally be supported) of the threads is that people arent here to talk about conspiracy theories or investigations, or even sharing information. People are mostly here because there is a particular niche ideology or belief that they subscribe to, and they find alternative sources of information interesting, or they enjoy thinking about the patterns of relationship, coincidence, etc....

And when a guy is looking for alternative sources of info, or is looking to communicate with those in his niche, there's nothing like a good "Jesus was made of toast, toast is alien, controls the mind, and did 9/11....this i know FOR A FACT!!" Thread to ruin your day.

But thats the price we pay to chill here. The price you pay is to say exactly what you mean.

So people like me need to just be reminded that there are people like you here and to be nice.

And people like you need to be reminded that if it requires drinking cool aid, you'd better make it sweet.

P.S. For the record...to summarize, this post can be read as follows: people can and should be nice, but those that submit threads/ideas can solve this entire issue by being upfront and simply saying "id like to discuss the idea of ____" or...."lets pretend x is x.....what is y?".

Just as well, i've been popping in and out for the better part of a decade. I havent rained on many parades, but when i have rained on a parade, it was never in the manner that some have quoted others in this thread, and it was only for the reasons above.

Just the confessions of someone who has cried at the pain while reading a thread. Most of the time you swallow your tears...but sometimes, you just share in the pain.

a reply to: Triton1128

So, what you are saying here is that you don't have the power of your own convictions on particular subjects and would like the board staff to step in and ensure that only your point of view gets heard?

Sorry, but that's not going to happen.

ATS is a discussion board. Things are discussed. Part of discussion - indeed part of life as a whole - is having to deal with dissenting views and opinions.

I have people who disagree with my views all the time. Sometimes I engage them, sometimes I do not. Sometimes they are right and I learn something. It doesn't stop me posting.

If all you want is agreement, a blog is the best way to go.

a reply to: Triton1128

It seems to be more prevalent with UFO topics and has been, in my experience, for decades with the skeptics. So, I avoid UFO threads because, quite simply, we still do not have the evidence that will tip the scales and I've already been through the wringer with skeptics' dismissive attitudes.

One forum, a long, long time ago, ended with a contactee creating human and alien stick figures for our amusement and because the arguments became circular.

However, if contactees/abductees want to share experiences, they may be well advised to go to another subject-specific forum where a more supportive atmosphere is to be had.

originally posted by: InTheLight
a reply to: Triton1128

It seems to be more prevalent with UFO topics and has been, in my experience, for decades with the skeptics. So, I avoid UFO threads because, quite simply, we still do not have the evidence that will tip the scales and I've already been through the wringer with skeptics' dismissive attitudes.

One forum, a long, long time ago, ended with a contactee creating human and alien stick figures for our amusement and because the arguments became circular.

However, if contactees/abductees want to share experiences, they may be well advised to go to another subject-specific forum where a more supportive atmosphere is to be had.

What do we mean by "it" here?

Sharing an experience is different than sharing a conspiracy god (theory).

i call it this because most people dont look at these as a theory...they want you to accept things on blind faith. The point of a theory is that it serves value to describe something, until its disproven or a theory that better explains the set of facts comes along. Since when does a theory require convention? You can discuss the set of facts, you can discuss the theory, and whether it does a better or worse job at describing something...but if you arent looking for any of this, what are you looking for?

Just like many, many others here, you should be able to learn from posters no matter what their viewpoint. Namecalling and character assassination isnt acceptable, but if youre asking people to blindly accept the story they're being told....dude...youre in the wrong place. This IS a conspiracy theory site after all, and you cant expect people whove made it a point to question everything to not question everything.

So if by "it" you mean the real cancer, i agree. But if you mean everyone who solidly disagrees, even to argument, you kinda just gotta ignore, get ready to tango, or get a blog.

originally posted by: neformore
a reply to: Triton1128

So, what you are saying here is that you don't have the power of your own convictions on particular subjects and would like the board staff to step in and ensure that only your point of view gets heard?

Sorry, but that's not going to happen.

ATS is a discussion board. Things are discussed. Part of discussion - indeed part of life as a whole - is having to deal with dissenting views and opinions.

I have people who disagree with my views all the time. Sometimes I engage them, sometimes I do not. Sometimes they are right and I learn something. It doesn't stop me posting.

If all you want is agreement, a blog is the best way to go.

Did you read any of my follow up posts in this thread? IT has NOTHING to do with me. This is probably the 3rd time I've had to reiterate this...

It has to do with members literally ganging up and bashing others because of their views. To a degree I have not seen here ever. How can a new member feel confident about posting an idea, or thought, in a fringe forum " like UFO and Aliens ", when the same handful of members troll through it daily picking apart and basically belittling anyone there who thinks outside the box? I'm not even going to go into creationism / evolution... Again, hot mess.

I've learned to avoid certain members. Its unfortunate, but I have nor the time, or patience. I come here as a outlet to relax and engross myself in alternate ideas. But lately, all I see is bickering, off topic arguments, racial slurs, name calling.. and no moderation. Maybe the amount of BS is outweighing whats being done on the back-end. But if that's the case. Hire more volunteers to moderate.

If there was not an issue, this thread would not draw the attention it has. Its apparent I'm not the only one that feels this way.

The issue seems to be that the attackers are a 'protected class' here on ATS, and the general consensus among them seems to be 'blame the victom for even thinking of coming here'. Basically, the have staked it out as their digital 'hood', and they will not leave, no matter what, unless the site shuts down. It's like being a digital victim-in-waiting knowing that sooner or later the 'digital thugs' will be around to drag one out of one's 'digital vehicle' for a 'virtual beatdown'. Gangster mentality of a few is ruining it for everybody. They are saying, just like the fictional character 'Simon Phoenix', "this beatdown is what you get for coming to OUR 'hood!" Time for SOMEONE in power to step up and stop the BS.

originally posted by: WAstateMosin
The issue seems to be that the attackers are a 'protected class' here on ATS, and the general consensus among them seems to be 'blame the victom for even thinking of coming here'. Basically, the have staked it out as their digital 'hood', and they will not leave, no matter what, unless the site shuts down. It's like being a digital victim-in-waiting knowing that sooner or later the 'digital thugs' will be around to drag one out of one's 'digital vehicle' for a 'virtual beatdown'. Gangster mentality of a few is ruining it for everybody. They are saying, just like the fictional character 'Simon Phoenix', "this beatdown is what you get for coming to OUR 'hood!" Time for SOMEONE in power to step up and stop the BS.

The skeptic reigns here. If you want a revolution, step up.

a reply to: Triton1128

Like I said before lets use your example forum ufo's etc. I believe there has to be something out there it's a numbers thing I joined here because I was told I would see evidence. All I have seen most of the time is constant links to youtube sites like secureteam 10 and other hoax sites. Then we have claims of objects travelling at fantastic speeds when they see a dot on a video but unless you know the objects size or distance you CAN'T work anything out.

People like myself keen longtime photographers comment on the images and links with reasons why they are mistaken and often get told we shouldn't be here so it works both ways.

I sometimes wonder about people yonger than me as many no longer seem to have a backbone and if you dare to question or show reasons why the claim is wrong your a shill / disinfo agent that makes me

So it's not onesided

Yeah, I have to agree. You have some here who will simply ridicule an idea because it doesn't have "pics" or "was already discussed". I imagine they were the kids that everyone hated in school. You know, the ones who reminded the teacher that they were supposed to take a test that day? And as for the "proof" -- it's the laziest and easiest way to deny events and these people won't take testimonial evidence even though courts do. They're basically jerks who want everyone to know how smart they are (in reality, they likely aren't).



a reply to: Triton1128

My opinion. ATS is not a place to rationally discuss ideas and opinions. It has become a place to state your view and be bitterly attacked by those with agendas.

I'll be the first to admit that when I'm attacked, called a name or words are put in my "mouth"...I'll bite back. But I have truly tried to peacefully debate topics with individuals and small groups and they want nothing of it. There is very little logical sharing of ideas or anyone open to an opinion other than their own. But the packs of attack dogs are obvious. I've been here long enough to identify many of them.

You go into a thread and post an opposing view. One of them calls you some name or insult. You get into it with them a bit and all of a sudden, in come their "gang". Yes...I believe they are either summoned to fight together or they just have nothing better to do with their time.

So...no...ATS is not a place where people can discuss things without ridicule. No...it is not a place for free-thinking and (as the mods will tell you) it is not YOUR place...it is theirs. You're just a guest.

Seems like what am hearing is something other than moderator duties.

Have we thought about community citizenship?

I do remember the "olden days". And it seems to me that the community cared more about the community. If someone gets blatenly and unfairly blasted or ridiculed or bullied or whatever, what is wrong with posting and standing up for your fellow members? The thread is gonna be damaged anyways. Sure, anyone can click on the report link. But it appears that the offending members are running the playground.

Shouldnt we be (forgive the verbage Bill), TBATS? (Take back ATS). Shouldnt the community as a whole be standing up for their fellow members?

Or do the bullies own the playground now and nobody wants to be in their crosshairs?

Keep in mind, everyone is a "new guy" at some point. And new guys typically arent experts.

I was a noob a long time ago. When I joined my best exposure to this stuff was the Bat Boy on National Inquirer. And my forum experience was even less.

But what I liked was the way the community greeted me. They didnt thrash me for my ignorance. Instead they were understanding and welcoming.

Finally, someone said it. I've been lurking these forums for... Idk, since it started? I finally made an account back in 2012 with the intention to post and contribute, but there has been a shift of sorts that made me back off. People no longer wish to contribute to healthy discussion, they prefer to destroy you and what you believe in.

God forbid it's political, both sides throw a lot of mud at each other, but I've noticed it's mostly people leaning right who do the ganging up. I guess it makes sense since we have a Democrat as president. I remember how much Bush was hated on when he was president, though I also remember Republicans hating Bush just as much. Interesting to think about.

In any case, I've grown somewhat tired of all the ignorance I'm seeing on this site but instead of leaving I'm going to comment on what I think I should voice my opinion on, but I won't debate, it's a waste of time. People will believe what they believe.

The way I see it is, either nut up or shut up.

This place is MUCH better than most other messageboards about UFO's, paranormal, conspiracies etc. Other forums have a lot more trolling and rude responses. Stuff people talk about here woud get them trolled off most other forums. I see arguments and disagreements here, but most points and counterpoints are well thought out and have some substance

a reply to: Triton1128
I'm pretty sure all of the info you seek can be found here.

Disinfo attack

originally posted by: InTheLight
a reply to: Triton1128

It seems to be more prevalent with UFO topics and has been, in my experience, for decades with the skeptics. So, I avoid UFO threads because, quite simply, we still do not have the evidence that will tip the scales and I've already been through the wringer with skeptics' dismissive attitudes.

As a skeptic, I usually avoid that section myself (unless as I said earlier, ancient ufos/aliens is the topic of a thread.)
This is because I don't know enough or care to file away enough data on past sightings in more recent history in my brain to be able to respond intelligently to posters there that have been looking at this phenomenon for decades, on both sides.

If I poke my nose in the wrong place in that section, I'll find myself being asked to explain how the burn marks got on somebody's face - somebody I never heard of...

I ain't got the time nor inclination to spend the necessary time in the morass that "Ufology" has become.

I read through the thread titles. If I see (for example) one about Alexander the Great's encounter, I'll read it. If nobody has pointed out that there has never been found a scrap of documentation for that claim, then I'll provide that information. In and out. Quick and easy.
If I go back to that thread and some snowflake has called me out, then I engage.

Sometimes I look into a thread about back-engineering alien tech, something I once looked well into decades ago, or something like that, but usually other posters have already given the argument against such a thing that I would have given.
Also, I don't think youtube is evidence of intelligent life of any kind, and the section is full of dumb youtube vids anyway.
Nothing there to even think about, much less comment on.

Harte

originally posted by: Visiting ESB
Yeah, I have to agree. You have some here who will simply ridicule an idea because it doesn't have "pics" or "was already discussed". I imagine they were the kids that everyone hated in school. You know, the ones who reminded the teacher that they were supposed to take a test that day? And as for the "proof" -- it's the laziest and easiest way to deny events and these people won't take testimonial evidence even though courts do. They're basically jerks who want everyone to know how smart they are (in reality, they likely aren't).
a reply to: Triton1128

I don't get the "pics or it didn't happen" crowd (except for the ones that are just wisecracking,) but the "it's been previously discussed" response is a way of not having to provide the same info over and over and over and over...
Which I find myself having to do all the time anyway.

The best way to say "been discussed" is to link to previous discussions. If the poster has any real interest, he can at least preview what he's up against in the way of contrary evidences and arguments, which would be what thinking people are looking for in the first place.

I recently commented (once again) on the irony of calling someone a "necroposter" when others are trying to say the same poster should make their posts in one of the older threads already posted on the subject.

In that sort of discussion, it's lose-lose.

Harte