EgyptAir flight from Paris to Cairo has vanished from Radar

a reply to: khnum

El Al only can because they were such a big target for so many years. I can't name another one off the top of my head that can. El Al uses FlightGuard, and has it installed on aircraft that regularly service high threat areas. None of the others have really sold to the airlines yet, because missiles are such an uncommon threat, even today.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Well, I feel much safer flying Lufthansa than Delta or American, where with the latter I've been on planes which feels like I'm stepping into the 80's.

so sad. prayers for all

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: TheGoondockSaint

It's been less than 24 hours. The AirAsia flight that crashed in December of 2014, despite having a really good idea of where it crashed, took a week to find the wreckage.

True, I do expect that the debris will be found soon, but sure it can take a bit of time.
But the difference is AirAsia was always considered missing, and possibly crashed, until the debris where found.

The way this is being handled is baffling me, I even find it disrespectful that France and Egypt exchanged condolences to the victims families. And François Hollande confirming it was "damaged" over the sea

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: EnhancedInterrogator

We lost three KC-135s to that. They only figured it out on the ground when a group of ground crew guys were killed troubleshooting a fuel pump problem. One of them was found with his hand on the switch turning on the center fuel pump after the fire was put out.

I seem to recall after TWA-800, they went back and reviewed several earlier events with similar craft (747's) and noted several that were unexplained at that time - which seemed like they were also 747-specific center fuel-tank events.

KC-135's if I recall were based on the 707 air-frame. Were those explosions with the fuel tanks that run the plane? or the fuel talks that are used to refuel their mid-air "customers". If course, I am assuming those are discreet systems - maybe they are not.

originally posted by: WeSbO

originally posted by: EnhancedInterrogator
I will note one disturbing similarity between this event and MH370 ... both events start during or right after hand-off between two different air-traffic-control authorities. For MH370 it was Malaysia handing off and telling the flight to contact Vietnam. For MS804, it was the Greeks contacting the flight to give them the hand-off for the Egyptians.

I was going to point the same thing out, and the fact that they are lost without any distress calls being made, just poof, gone

Plus they both made strange turns prior to disappearING from radar

a reply to: MysticPearl

Delta averages 17.1 years for their fleet. They have a few under 10, but only two or three types. They're replacing aircraft now, but it'll take a few years to get that down. American is at 11.2 years, thanks to the merger with US Airways, and buying the 787, but they still have a few that are up there in years. They're retiring a number of types over the next five years. Lufthansa is at 11.3 years. Their 737s are ancient, especially compared to the rest of the fleet, but on the other hand, they're one of the companies that others send aircraft to for heavy maintenance checks, so they should be much better about maintenance than others are.

a reply to: EnhancedInterrogator

They're the same tanks. They had switched center fuel tank pump manufacturers and the pump was scavenging the fuel that was supposed to be used to lubricate the pump, so was eventually having metal on metal contact that was sparking. The aircraft that blew up on the ground was found with the top of the pump almost a mile from where the aircraft was parked.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

Good observations, and I agree, don't want people tuning out...

Friends of mine were at the Man United match the other day and have just been discussing the same thing today. They and others.believe there really was an explosive device and the story is being covered up so as not to alarm public especially in view of upcoming referendum. Ive got to say I feel the same. There would have been cleaners etc in those toilets as well as others in which case they would have already seen the devicr. Definitely something amiss. Same with this story as well as debris it said earlier they had found 2 bodies as well. It broke as I was watching Reuters News.a reply to: UKTruth

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: MysticPearl
No. If you dig really hard on the internet you can get an idea of how far along in its lifecycle your plane is, especially if you can find the registration number before you board, but it's not generally given out.

Back when I used to fly more, I used to cringe every time I got booked on a flight that was going to be on a DC-10. If would change flights if I could. They had a habit of falling out of the sky (or parts of them at least) in the late 1970's.

But, otherwise, I think the "useful lifetime" of an aircraft is generally taken into account in terms of replacing planes by most airlines. But, I have noticed that many sell their older planes to other smaller airlines in 3rd-world countries. Those airlines I suppose might not have the financial wherewithal the retire them when they might like to.

originally posted by: anxiouswens
Friends of mine were at the Man United match the other day and have just been discussing the same thing today. They and others.believe there really was an explosive device and the story is being covered up so as not to alarm public especially in view of upcoming referendum. Ive got to say I feel the same. There would have been cleaners etc in those toilets as well as others in which case they would have already seen the devicr. Definitely something amiss. Same with this story as well as debris it said earlier they had found 2 bodies as well. It broke as I was watching Reuters News.a reply to: UKTruth

Very interesting angle regarding the Man Utd incident..

Back to the OP..

I posted this statement this morning around 10:30 GMT on page 6 of this thread, It was a piece in the Mirror.. This was long before any real information was released..

"Jean-Paul Troadec, the former chief of France’s air accident investigation unit, the BEA, said the disappearance suggested a "brutal event" and was “almost certainly” caused by “an attack" ...

I have to say some people early on knew exactly what had happened and this information is being dripped fed as they feel needed..


RA

a reply to: slider1982

Planes don't normally come down during the cruise portion of flight, so when they do, the automatic assumption is that it was terrorism. This aircraft was still in the cruise portion of flight, so the automatic assumption is terrorism.

originally posted by: anxiouswens
Friends of mine were at the Man United match the other day and have just been discussing the same thing today. They and others.believe there really was an explosive device and the story is being covered up so as not to alarm public especially in view of upcoming referendum. Ive got to say I feel the same. There would have been cleaners etc in those toilets as well as others in which case they would have already seen the devicr. Definitely something amiss. Same with this story as well as debris it said earlier they had found 2 bodies as well. It broke as I was watching Reuters News.a reply to: UKTruth

Yes - the wreckage reports were of two bodies, life jackets and blue and white metal matching Air Egypt colours. Now there is no wreckage found.

As for the Manchester Utd 'fake' bomb, the story put out is ridiculous. If there really was a terrorist training exercise it seems very odd that their fake bombs would not be marked in some way and it was just a little remiss of them to leave one in the stadium! Like you said, it would have been found in the week or so before the game. I think this story was told to protect the stay vote for brexit.

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: anxiouswens
Friends of mine were at the Man United match the other day and have just been discussing the same thing today. They and others.believe there really was an explosive device and the story is being covered up so as not to alarm public especially in view of upcoming referendum. Ive got to say I feel the same. There would have been cleaners etc in those toilets as well as others in which case they would have already seen the devicr. Definitely something amiss. Same with this story as well as debris it said earlier they had found 2 bodies as well. It broke as I was watching Reuters News.a reply to: UKTruth

Yes - the wreckage reports were of two bodies, life jackets and blue and white metal matching Air Egypt colours. Now there is no wreckage found.

As for the Manchester Utd 'fake' bomb, the story put out is ridiculous. If there really was a terrorist training exercise it seems very odd that their fake bombs would not be marked in some way and it was just a little remiss of them to leave one in the stadium! Like you said, it would have been found in the week or so before the game. I think this story was told to protect the stay vote for brexit.

Indeed, I have done a number of training scenarios and props are always marked, a firearm will have a orange handle or similar a knife will have a coloured blade, I see little reason why a training device would not follow this same protocol??..

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: slider1982

Planes don't normally come down during the cruise portion of flight, so when they do, the automatic assumption is that it was terrorism. This aircraft was still in the cruise portion of flight, so the automatic assumption is terrorism.

Granted, but should someone use the word "certainly" in such a statement?.. If you knew that every word you said was going to be published you would make damn sure you was stating facts, esp someone that has worked in his position.

RA

a reply to: slider1982

It wouldn't be the first time someone has jumped to conclusions and put out that they were certain as to the cause, only to later retract it. Just because they're experienced and in an important position doesn't make them immune to stepping on their own toes.

Just posting some reference information about this plane. This is from AirFleets.net:

Manufacturer: Airbus
Airline Egyptair
Status : Active
Registration : SU-GCC
Serial number: 2088
Type: 320-232
First flight date: 25/07/2003
Test registration: F-WWBH
Plane age: 12.8 years

I think some of that is posted previously, just not all-together. Again, just for later reference.

Also the possibility of non-radical muslim pilots turning radical and blowing up the planes or crashing them into the seas on purpose.

a reply to: Granite

What a loser thing to say. Generalize much?!