Schools reject Obama transgender decree: ‘Straight into the paper shredder’

a reply to: ketsuko

Of course, the argument is worded so that it appears no one is being a transphobe. The states that were fighting tooth and nail against gay marriage are the same states that are fighting transgender non-discrimination laws. Coincidence? I think not.

Remember, these non-discrimination laws also protect transgender people in restaurants, hotels, jobs, housing, etc. Those arguments have already been fought and lost on the gay front, so the only recourse conservatives have left is the "evil men are going to go in the restroom and kill our women", in order to kill the whole deal.

originally posted by: Bone75

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: ketsuko

What about this person?

Female body builder. There have always been manly-looking women going into the women's room and womanly-looking men going into the men's room.

I'm sure she is well aware of the fact that she looks like a man. I would expect such a person to have the decency to not go around scaring little girls in bathrooms... like she probably did (have the decency) before any stupid laws were passed.

You really think she chooses to not use public bathrooms?

Or, you mean to say that she just goes in, uses the bathroom and goes out without engaging children in odd conversations.

a reply to: kaylaluv

Do you have reports of widespread instances where transpeople were being barred from peeing?

I thought you were part of the brigade that argues "they've always been there!" If that's so, then you can't really have much proof such laws are needed.

a reply to: Bone75

Are you saying she goes to the men's room? I think not.

a reply to: ketsuko

They have always been there.

So why do we need a law that tells them they're not allowed to be there anymore?

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: kaylaluv

Do you have reports of widespread instances where transpeople were being barred from peeing?

I thought you were part of the brigade that argues "they've always been there!" If that's so, then you can't really have much proof such laws are needed.

Laws stating that people can use the bathroom they identify with are NOW needed since some idiots decided to make laws saying they can't. For every action there is an opposite and equal reaction.

Some opeople put up a lot of pictures. This is a transgender actress, she was once male. Are you going to tell her she must use the men's room?



I have no idea how far her surgeries have gone. No matter how far or not far, I would not cause her, by law, to use the men's room. Will you?

Even if she didn't look so feminine, would you still tell her she must use the men's room?

a reply to: ketsuko

Organizations that serve the trans community have also conducted research on
transgender and gender non-conforming people’s experiences in public restrooms. The
Transgender Law Center (TLC), in cooperation with the National Center for Lesbian Rights
(NCLR), found in a survey of transgender people in San Francisco that 63 percent of 75
respondents to questions regarding experiences in public accommodations experienced
denial of access and/or harassment at least once while using public restrooms (Minter and
Daley 2003). In a separate, more qualitative survey of transgender people in San Francisco,
Dylan Vade found that “out of 116 responses from those who did not identify as male or
female, 48 people took the time to write out specific bathroom experiences, all negative.
These experiences ranged from harassment to violence to getting fired” (Vade 2002, 2).
Respondents reported being physically abused, verbally harassed, fired, arrested, and made
ill from avoiding restrooms altogether. A 2007 study in Virginia found that public restroom
facilities served as a barrier to health care for some respondents (Xavier, Honnold, and
Bradford 2007). Out of the sample of 350 Virginians self-identified as transgender, 37
respondents (11 percent) reported that a “lack of appropriate restroom facilities” had
prevented them from seeing a doctor or getting health care (Xavier, Honnold, and Bradford
2007, 17).

williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu...

Three weeks ago, Griffin was visiting a friend at Bellevue Hospital Center when she said a female security guard tried to block her from entering the ladies’ room.

“You need to go to the men’s bathroom, sir,” the guard told Griffin.

www.huffingtonpost.com...

I try to remind myself of that every time a nice lady in her new pantsuit for travelling screams or stares at me, I try to remember that this is maybe her first encounter with someone who doesn’t appear to be much of a lady in the ladies’ room. That she has no way of knowing this is already the sixth time this week that this has happened to me, and that I have four decades of it already weighing heavy on my back. She doesn’t know I have been verbally harassed in women’s washrooms for years. She doesn’t know I have been hauled out with my pants still undone by security guards and smashed over the head with a giant handbag once. She can’t know that I have five cities and seven more airport bathrooms and eleven shows left to get through before I can safely pee in my own toilet.

www.slate.com...

In a national survey of people who identified as transgender, a higher percentage of respondents who reported having been denied access to a restroom also reported having attempted suicide, compared with respondents who said they had not been denied access, according to a study recently published in the Journal of Homosexuality. The study took into account access to restrooms only on college and university campuses and people who identified as transgender while on campus.

www.newsweek.com...

I think that's enough. I got tired of copying and pasting.

Yes, they've always been there. Those who were lucky enough to have a very successful transition usually don't get stopped. The others... not so much.

a reply to: kaylaluv

So sympathetic organizations and people who are reporting their own anecdotal evidence makes for a huge rash needing people to be added to nondiscrimination?

So how do you define discrimination if thee is no objective standard to measure by?

After all, YOU are the one who told us that gender is confined solely to the brain, and we all know there is no objective standard of the brain by which to determine what is or is not one gender or the other ...

So how do we add transgender to that list? You cannot discriminate against that which cannot be defined.

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: ketsuko

Of course, the argument is worded so that it appears no one is being a transphobe. The states that were fighting tooth and nail against gay marriage are the same states that are fighting transgender non-discrimination laws. Coincidence? I think not.

Also the same states that fought against race equality.

originally posted by: reldra
You really think she chooses to not use public bathrooms?

Or, you mean to say that she just goes in, uses the bathroom and goes out without engaging children in odd conversations.

I'm saying that I bet she uses discretion and doesn't just walk right in after a little girl, but I do tend to give people too much credit. She might just be a stone-cold b!tch that doesn't care if she scares your kid or not.

a reply to: Annee

Nevermind those were democrats in charge ...

This is not the same thing as the Civil Rights Era. Face it, you guys missed that.

a reply to: ketsuko

Gender dysphoria is a real thing. It is recognized by all major mental health organizations. You can deny that it's a real thing, but you would be wrong. Transgender people are real people, they are not figments of someone's imagination.

You can claim that all transgender people who have faced harassment or violence by trying to go the restroom of their affirmed gender are all liars, but you would be wrong.

You can claim that once these non-discrimination laws are in place, that there will be an increase in men assaulting women in women's restrooms, but there are states that have already had these laws for a while now, and that has not happened, so you would be wrong.

Conservatives will lose this battle, just like they lost the battle of same sex marriage. Your arguments to allow discrimination against groups of people that you find "icky" just don't work.

a reply to: Bone75

I'm saying that I bet she uses discretion and doesn't just walk right in after a little girl,

What parent just lets their little girl run off into the bathroom without them?? What age does little constitute? I swear modern complacent humans have no sense of situational awareness and would rather just have draconian laws to protect them from all of the dangers in the world. The world is a scary place stay inside and lock your kids in their rooms.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Annee

Nevermind those were democrats in charge ...

This is not the same thing as the Civil Rights Era. Face it, you guys missed that.

Everyone who's been on ATS for a while knows the "switcheroo" of the Dems and Reps from that time.

It's lost its effect.

a reply to: Annee

Oh that's right. The conservatives fought hard on that one didn't they? Lost that one too.

originally posted by: RainbowPhoenix
a reply to: Bone75

I'm saying that I bet she uses discretion and doesn't just walk right in after a little girl,

What parent just lets their little girl run off into the bathroom without them?? What age does little constitute?

So now you think I should accompany my 7 year old daughter in the girls' room? Or should I take her into the men's room with me?

originally posted by: Bone75

originally posted by: RainbowPhoenix
a reply to: Bone75

I'm saying that I bet she uses discretion and doesn't just walk right in after a little girl,

What parent just lets their little girl run off into the bathroom without them?? What age does little constitute?

So now you think I should accompany my 7 year old daughter in the girls' room?

I do.

I think dad's should absolutely accompany their daughter's into the ladies room. My 8 year old grandson comes in the ladies room with me.

Maybe they should just make all ladies rooms - - family rooms.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Annee

Nevermind those were democrats in charge ...

This is not the same thing as the Civil Rights Era. Face it, you guys missed that.

The Democratic Party was wholly different then. T he 2 parties changed places. The lack of knowing history is astounding here.

originally posted by: Bone75

originally posted by: reldra
You really think she chooses to not use public bathrooms?

Or, you mean to say that she just goes in, uses the bathroom and goes out without engaging children in odd conversations.

I'm saying that I bet she uses discretion and doesn't just walk right in after a little girl, but I do tend to give people too much credit. She might just be a stone-cold b!tch that doesn't care if she scares your kid or not.

Why would she not? The picture of the female body builder is a person born female.