OKAY. I'm going with Jill Stein if I can't go with Bernie

I have decided. I won't vote for Trump or Hillary if they are the choices.

Here is an article about Jill Stein's platform. I hadn't heard of her before AlaskanDad introduced her to us....
and I hadn't heard of Gary Johnson until Ron Paul got shuffled out four years ago. Four years ago, I would up voting for Obama.
Lesson learned.

So - here you go, guys -
some words of wisdom from Jill:

Thinking and Voting Outside the Two-Party Box: An Interview With Jill Stein

Unfortunately, our country has been concentrating wealth and losing democracy. And now it's reaching its logical conclusions -- it's the inevitable final stages of predatory capitalism that's creating an unlivable world. Not only is our economy increasingly unfair, but now we're putting the very future of the planet at stake.

All these crises really converge on the backs of the younger generation -- especially the crisis of police brutality and mass incarceration. This generation is suffering, up close and personal, the ravages of unbridled capitalism. So it's absolutely logical that millions of people are rejecting that system and moving toward a more just system that many people see in the promise of economic democracy -- in other words, a more socialist type of economic system.

As I've been saying, even if Bernie doesn't get the nomination, he will not be silenced, nor will the millions of people who have heard him and support his views. Conservatives don't have to like it, but they do need to recognize it. The "Millennials" are not the only ones supporting Bernie, and in four more years, they will be even more savvy than they are now (at least he got their attention!). In ten more years, they will be old enough to run for office themselves.

This is not over, folks. Not by a long shot (provided the planet remains habitable).

Have you guys looked at Jill Stein's ideas?
Worth a read, in any case. It's not unheard of for 3rd-party candidates to upset the apple cart, earning enough votes to win by splitting the not-so-sure voters.....

Stranger things have happened. Like Donald J Trump being the Republican nominee. This is just priceless stuff, really. "Pure gold" when it comes to subject matter (in more ways than one)!

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

More socialism, huh?

Well, at least you're consistent.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

I'm going to vote for Hillary. Only because she has the best chance of beating Trump. If I voted for someone else I see that as a vote helping Trump win over Hillary. And a Trump Presidency worries me more than a Hillary one. At least with Hillary we'll know what we are getting.

If Jill Stein or Gary Johnson somehow managed to gain enough popularity to be electable, then maybe I'll consider them again (like I did 4 years ago when I voted for Johnson). It could happen too if the Republicans dissatisfied with Trump break away from the GOP.

a reply to: DBCowboy

Yep! More and more!
Whether you like it or not - that's what's going to happen eventually. Just wait and see.

Not like it's going away.
And I've been like this for about, oh, 57 years now. You should really try to keep up with the times, DB.



And, FWIW, I come by it honest. My parents weren't elitist snobs or "Moral Majority" types - I grew up in the 60s and 70s - and by 1982 had received a bachelor's degree from a Liberal Public University - in Spanish language/literature/culture. Then I got married, and after having kids I went back *gasp* to that same "Liberal University" (for an advanced education for which I still owe money and can not now pay, due to idiotic capitalist crap and the 2008 disaster). They put my name and a title on that piece of paper - I'm not abdicating yet.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Eventually, we'll see socialism tried here in the US. It's only a matter of time.

For some reason, people tend to drift towards an authoritarian/socialist state.

You'll get your wish.

a reply to: DBCowboy

Socialism has existed in some form in this country for over a 100 years now. Where have you been?

a reply to: DBCowboy

Socialism is not "authoritarianism."
Sigh.

You're a bright fellow - you could at least try to act like you've actually done your due diligence, and stop spreading disinfo and propaganda. It reflects very poorly on you to continue comparing socialism to despotism or communism.

Just like all "brown" people aren't Mexican, and not just "Mexicans" speak Spanish, you know.....
simple concepts - socialism is not communism. It is also not "authoritarian."


And yes - that is what I JUST SAID - it is going to happen, wait and see.

And then you said, "yeah, it will", and lots of people agreed -- so, I don't see the issue here, really.
But then, I'm an egg-headed, lily-livered liberal hippy.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: DBCowboy

Socialism has existed in some form in this country for over a 100 years now. Where have you been?

Yeah, and it's made things worse, incrementally. Yet we still seem to drift towards more.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Socialism is not freedom.

More government is not freedom.

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: DBCowboy

Socialism has existed in some form in this country for over a 100 years now. Where have you been?

Yeah, and it's made things worse, incrementally. Yet we still seem to drift towards more.

It helped pull us out of the Great Depression as well as propelled us to our Golden Age in the 40's. You may want to brush up on your history a bit.

The narrative that Socialism is harmful to society is only a recent one too. Back in the day both liberals AND conservatives supported Socialism. Then a bunch of rich people who didn't like paying high taxes for rich people pulled the "trickle down economics" voodoo economics out of thin air and sold it to the Republican party and your bias reflects this.

a reply to: DBCowboy

Bullsnip.

Do you drive on the highways? Did you go to public school? Who will you call if you are mugged, or your house catches fire?
Stop spreading disinfo, DB. Really. It's so immature.

socialism is not freedom

Ridiculous.

Unless you mean that people being free to die on the streets of starvation or from untreated illnesses is a good thing.

Freedom to not give a rip about anyone else? Yeah, maybe socialism doesn't allow for that, you're right. The term for that is selfish prick, though. And it's decidedly not socialism.

/yawn
Go ahead guys, you can't insult me anymore than I've already been insulted. I hate this election.
And I really, really hate disinformation and the stubbornness of some members here to absorb actual information.

At least with Hillary we'll know what we are getting.

Better the evil and special interest you know vs. the unknown? Strange tact, but whatever floats your boat.

Jill who? Exactly. While I'm all for folks voting their conscience, and I applaud it, still have to realize that if the people don't know who you are, you have no chance.

Years back, the people DID know who Ron Paul was, or at least we tried...but still didn't help matters.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: BuzzyWigs

I'm going to vote for Hillary. Only because she has the best chance of beating Trump.

Just a question KS, is the ONLY reason you'll vote for Hillary is because she can beat Trump, or are there additional reasons besides that, that you think she'll make a good president?

a reply to: Gazrok

Okay, well now you know!

Jill Stein.
Like I said, I hadn't heard of her until AlaskanDad introduced her to me. Now, I'm spreading the knowledge. No one knew who Bernie was a year ago, either.
/shrug

originally posted by: Gazrok

At least with Hillary we'll know what we are getting.

Better the evil and special interest you know vs. the unknown? Strange tact, but whatever floats your boat.

The evil I know won't destroy the country and will probably champion ideas that I agree with (even if coming from the Clinton camp they are for the wrong reasons), while the unknown isn't even elected yet and his divisive politics have already nearly ripped the GOP apart and appear to be doing the same to the liberal/conservative gap.

Normally I hate the lesser of two evils choice, but Trump isn't the same as before and he brings a mentality to this country that is harmful to its cohesiveness. Any Trump supporter, even Trump himself, who pretends like this country will unite under him is blowing smoke. He has clearly made the country more divided than even Obama did.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: Krazysh0t

You both seem to be true believers to the socialist cause and movement.

No point arguing on the topic further as neither of us will ever accept that the other is right.



As long as I have the freedom to voice my opinion against it, I will.

originally posted by: UnBreakable

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: BuzzyWigs

I'm going to vote for Hillary. Only because she has the best chance of beating Trump.

Just a question KS, is the ONLY reason you'll vote for Hillary is because she can beat Trump, or are there additional reasons besides that, that you think she'll make a good president?

Let me give you the lowdown on my opinion on the Democratic choices. Bernie would make the best President. Martin O'Malley (as much as it pains me to say this) would have made a decent President and Hillary is just in it because she feels she is owed it. I disliked the fact that Hillary's sense of entitlement here pushed a more qualified candidate out of the race.

All that being said. Since Hillary is really just a political whore, I can at least count on her coming around to ideas as they gain more and more popularity (for example: her shifting attitudes towards marijuana and gay rights over the last decade). So there's that.

a reply to: DBCowboy

Okay, toodles! Thanks for stopping by! Enjoy your recaltitrance, DB. It's so becoming!

a reply to: DBCowboy

You cannot have less government in a country with 350 million people. That's just too many cooks in the kitchen. What you can do is demand better, more accountable government and better, more accountable citizens.

Will you remain true to form and note -- as many on this site do every day -- that people are people and human nature will always win out?

Because that is only true when it becomes your only answer.

originally posted by: 0zzymand0s
a reply to: DBCowboy

You cannot have less government in a country with 350 million people. That's just too many cooks in the kitchen. What you can do is demand better, more accountable government and better, more accountable citizens.

We'll never get more accountable citizens if government continues encroachment. Accountable citizens, in my mind, means people that are accountable for themselves and NOT reliant on government.

Will you remain true to form and note -- as many on this site do every day -- that people are people and human nature will always win out?

Absolutely. Which is why I also stated that socialists will get their way. Citizens have been abdicating responsibility in the form of idiotic laws for a century now. Humans aren't very bright, as a species.

And we're only getting dumber. And more dependent on the authoritarian state.

Because that is only true when it becomes your only answer.

My only answer is that we're screwed.

Socialists will get their way, the definition of freedom will change. I'm just lucky enough to be old, so I won't have to live through the bull####.