Are homophobes "born that way"?

originally posted by: ImaFungi
I think eating in public should be banned because I have a genetic condition that makes me sick to my stomach when I see other people eating. I also have such a condition when I see other people breathing. It also makes me throw up to see peoples eyes and skin in public.

Too bad for you but nobody Said anything about banning anything.

Im just saying homophobia is a genetic condition and that we should accept them wiyhout prejudice. If they are born that way they cant help it can they?????

originally posted by: BIGPoJo

originally posted by: berenike
And so the fight goes on - generation by generation.

What fight would that be exactly?

The fight for control of the last few cubic inches of space that free people still have control over? My grey matter belongs to me and me alone.

The fight, exactly, for homosexuals to be accepted as valid and equal members of society and not to suffer discrimination due to their sexual orientation.

How a person thinks is their own business but they have no business making life intolerable for those of whom they disapprove, for no good reason.

I would say it's mostly social conditioning.

but there has to be at least SOME aspect of evolutionary preservation... Male/Female makes sense....it's how our species continues to survive and grow..

You probably don't see homosexual yeast cells.
Their purpose is to multiply . So thats what they do. I don't see why most/some humans wouldn't be "hardwired" to the same way... survival of self..species being part of that, and feeling some instinctual revulsion.

I know there are gay monkeys but that's probably a pleasure thing over survival... like SOME humans.
Maybe not.

Reminds me of a Joe Rogan blurb about in survival mode animals don't have time for BS. But humans have it so nice that instinct goes out the window, things like pleasure, leisure, vice, etc.. come into play.

I know not all homosexuals are just in it for the thrills, because for many years being gay was not so thrilling.

Alright, i have my flame retardant PJs on, bring it.

originally posted by: berenike

originally posted by: BIGPoJo

originally posted by: berenike
And so the fight goes on - generation by generation.

What fight would that be exactly?

The fight for control of the last few cubic inches of space that free people still have control over? My grey matter belongs to me and me alone.

The fight, exactly, for homosexuals to be accepted as valid and equal members of society and not to suffer discrimination due to their sexual orientation.

How a person thinks is their own business but they have no business making life intolerable for those of whom they disapprove, for no good reason.

Homosexuals are accepted. So what about HOMOPHOBES? They to are born that way (tho you claim otherwise) so why wont society accept them as equal?? why%???

I've always been a pretty outspoken supporter of anyone who is bullied or treated poorly. Gay people....i've got your back.


But this thing going on lately, where people are belittled by others (the whole "SJW" thing) is making it hard for me to publicly declare support.

If you are worried about what someone is doing in their pants, you need to find better things to do.

If you don't like someone having an opinion about you kissing somone in public, then don't kiss people in public. Because regardless of what gender either person is, im likely to have the opinion of "get a room, ew!!!"

If someone has an opnion you don't like, suck it up. You don't have to like their opinion. And all you do is demeans yourself and your argument when you start insulting them for their opinion. And, even worse, you alienate yourself from people who actually share your viewpoint.

People, get over it. Not only is it boring, its embarassing. I bet some brown folks towards the east would love for us to talk about the fact that their bathrooms have all been blown up. And a bit less about what random strangers do while they are behind closed doors.

originally posted by: clevargenuis


Im just saying homophobia is a genetic condition and that we should accept them wiyhout prejudice. If they are born that way they cant help it can they?????

What is the value of lack of acceptance, without the meaning of ban?

What are circumstances of acceptance?

Oh, I think I see what you mean; you mean those who are born homophobic should be aloud to use freedom of speech to continually tell gay people how much they disgust you? Or at least talk badly about them on forums and with friends, without feeling guilty?

Is that the first step, the first concept we can admit that this is about?

The desire to not feel guilty for being disgusted by gays, the freedom to be proud to be disgusted by gays? Like bumper stickers and t shirts? And name calling?

a reply to: clevargenuis

nowadays homosexuals are SUING homophobes, and even jailing them. So....please stop playing the "discrimination" and "oppression" card. Its the homophobes who are being oppressed for being born that way.

a reply to: clevargenuis

I'd suggest that they are accepted as equals - they're ordinary people who are homophobic.

Where are they discriminated against? They can buy wedding cakes or book into hotels without any problems.

The only time they might invite conflict is if they express their dislike of homosexuals. Then there'll be a bit of an argument from those who disagree with them, then the dust will settle and life will go on as before.

No different from a political or religious disagreement.

a reply to: SteamyJeans

Gay people are actually supreme heros of the world, whether people are disgusted or not, they must commend them; reasoning;

Natural population control. And leaving a bigger pool of potential mates for non gays. Also they have, at least now, the potential to adopt unwanted children.

If anyone thinks over population is potentially an issue, or would be in the future, such a person would probably be happiest if 50% of the worlds population turned gay for good tonight.

a reply to: ImaFungi

A person being disgusted to know that homosexuals exist and have homes together and do things in their own home, is as meaningless as a person being disgusted anyone does anything in their home that does not physically harm others.

I'm not sure if we agree on the overall issues or not but I think that we might agree (at least a little bit) on one aspect of this topic in general.

To me, not enough people make the distinction between tolerance and embracement of any "group."

I think that everyone should tolerate those who live in a way that they themselves wouldn't want to live (provided they aren't harming anyone). In the case of homosexuals, nobody should be berated with insults or denied jobs or denied housing or beaten up or worse, just because they are homosexuals. I think the same spirit of tolerance should be expanded to pretty much all other "groups" that aren't harming anyone. Just look at some of the insults here on ATS that are aimed at religious people (and I'm not talking about those that are extremely/fanatically religious that damn people to hell and all that, just by someone saying they believe in God and they get attacked).

So, in my opinion everyone SHOULD tolerate those whom they may not agree with (whether that be their ideas or the way they live their lives.... again... provided they aren't harming anyone else).

That being said, I don't think anyone really NEEDS to embrace the way others live their lives. In keeping with the theme of this thread, so long as a person doesn't harass, attack or discriminate against homosexuals because they are homosexuals, it shouldn't matter to anyone what that person thinks. If someone is respectful outwardly to everyone, they are entitled to find certain things gross or otherwise unacceptable. It's called "having an opinion." If a homosexual person NEEDS to have full approval from EVERYONE, I think they may have some other issues. I'll use religion again as another side of the D&D 12 sided die (as apposed to a two sided coin). I'm Catholic. Since I don't try to cause harm to anyone and I don't stand on the street damning people for this or that, I should be treated respectfully and not discriminated against. However, there is no reason that I should expect non-Catholics to embrace the way I live my life and I don't need them to do so. I often say, "Unless someone is paying my bills for me, I couldn't possibly care less what anyone thinks."

Footnote: I know, I know, the gay wedding cake baker thing.... I intentionally left that out because I find that to be much more of an economic freedom issue than a homosexual/straight issue.

Yea Good Point.

I probably would not argue that.."supreme hero" sounds like a stretch,I guess...

Personally i'm not sure overpopulation really IS an issue...More like global lifestyle issue...but thats another topic.

I suppose once smallpox and various plagues were cured, something had to keep things in balance.. I always figured it was world war,genocide, etc.. but I like the gay super hero angle.

Though, it's obviously been around longer than modern medicine.

a reply to: ImaFungi

a reply to: clevargenuis

I always ask people who smoke cigarettes, were you born smoking? They say no. I say so you don't need to smoke!

originally posted by: Quantum12
a reply to: clevargenuis

I always ask people who smoke cigarettes, were you born smoking? They say no. I say so you don't need to smoke!

Oh, this could go wrong in so many ways. LOL

But good logic is good logic, i suppose.

a reply to: clevargenuis

No. Hate is a learned/taught concept.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

LOL a wise person you are!

originally posted by: berenike

originally posted by: BIGPoJo

originally posted by: berenike
And so the fight goes on - generation by generation.

What fight would that be exactly?

The fight for control of the last few cubic inches of space that free people still have control over? My grey matter belongs to me and me alone.

The fight, exactly, for homosexuals to be accepted as valid and equal members of society and not to suffer discrimination due to their sexual orientation.

How a person thinks is their own business but they have no business making life intolerable for those of whom they disapprove, for no good reason.

Go on, how are they being discriminated against?

a reply to: eluryh22

I think the gay wedding cake issue is important to this topics, because it seems directly in line with what OP is asking;

Forget about the 'born that way or not'; how about more, whether a homophobe is born homophobe or not, should they be able to be a homophobe, and what does that mean?

It starts with an opinion about the external world;

Where things get dicey, is when there is then desire to act in relation to such opinion, in debatable manners in the external world;

Such as; I am homophobe, born or not, and I do not want a gay person in my store...

That is an extremely interesting philosophical topic;

I mean, there had been the history of; no blacks around, and in a sense you can relate the two to degrees.

There is no shoes no service; I mean, where can the lines be drawn and who decides that?

I dont want any bald people in my store because I was born to hate bald people or learned;

I dont want fat people in my store ....

I dont want short.. ...

Skinny...

no girls allowed in my tree fort.....

But yes, something I mentioned prior to Op I have not received an answer on;

Something I sensed might be the direction of this sort of thinking;

Is if a homophobe is a true entity, truly homophobic, whether genetic or learned;

Well first of all, Ops argument is, in one sense, can relate to the desire for one to not feel ashamed of being a homophobe, or as if they are wrong, guilty, or must change... Op, is trying to give taste of own medicine.

That is one layer;

The next layer, I asked about, was then, after a potential discussion about all the ideas related to such concepts as that; should a homophobe, born that way or otherwise, be allowed, be able to feel not guilty, about being such?

The obvious next layer, what that leads too, is if so... That is the opinion portion... how much power might that opinion be able to effect the external world;

The business example is a layer or so up;

One example, taste of own medicine method again, can homophobes be proud to be homophobic, born that way or not?

Can they made t shirts and bumper-stickers?

Can they have 'Dude Pauls I was born or otherwise to hate drag races unless its cars' tv show

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: Bone75

There are plenty of people who believe gay people aren't born that way but choose to be that way. If you're not one of those people then ignore my question.

Well to be perfectly clear, I don't believe all gay people are born gay. Nor do I believe all straight people are born straight. I believe our sexuality functions on a scale where I'm on one extreme end and someone who was born gay and repulsed by heterosexual affection is on the other end, those without a natural repulsion either way choose whether or not to indulge based on the opportunities (or lack thereof) presented to them.

Maybe I'll just leave this here. It's got some interesting points about the whole gay marriage push.

And as a straight woman, it doesn't matter if it's two men or two women, I feel a bit revolted. Reading about it is much less inflammatory to my senses.

I would have to say it's likely instinct born of being a biological species that reproduces heterosexually. The natural way to go is male/female and we would naturally feel compelled toward what fits with our species survival. You see a similar impulse when herd animals shun albinos.