Are homophobes "born that way"?

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

I don't think they 'choose' to be that way, but I also don't think it gets determined by genetics. Because then all of the people who differ from the norm would have a genetic excuse. There is a whole LGBT community (I have heard), and all of their differences can't be attributed to genetics? I think it's just a case of epi-genetics, trauma and other personality shaping experiences that cause an individual to be attracted to the same sex - or some other wacky sexual kink. I think we should perhaps start looking at homo-sexuality like a fetish, for if a man can love a man, why is it so wrong for a man to love a shoe? Or a horse? Or a vacuum cleaner?

originally posted by: Raxoxane
a reply to: clevargenuis

Babies will love every and anyone who treats them with love and kindness.Also young children.So i suspect that homophobia and intense dislike or hatred of lgbt folks,are taught by parents,relatives,caregivers etc early in life.The more religious the people exerting the early influences are,the more likely that a child will be indoctrinated with a prejudice against lgbt people.Imo.

What i mean is,if children were not indoctrinated to be prejudiced against lgbt folks,and had positive relationships with lgbt people from an early age,i can't imagine that some would automatically be prejudiced or hateful as adults or teens.

But doesn't religion teach us not to judge and to love everyone ?

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: berenike

So, basically, you want everyone else to change our beliefs to accommodate others, not simply tolerate?

I should go against my conscience and embrace rather than simply tolerate?

That wasn't how the bill of goods was sold to me.

I said no such thing. I said I would defend a person's right to be homophobic but asked if homophobes would consider where their homophobia stemmed from.

Others can tolerate or accommodate as they choose but I see no reason for anyone to make the life of another difficult based on their own personal beliefs and prejudices.

I don't discriminate against homophobes. I accept that we are all equal as human beings whether or not we have different values and lifestyles. I only have a problem with people when they do harm to others - psychological or physical.

As far as the law goes I would hope it 's the same for everyone regardless of religion, ethnicity, sexual orientation or whatever else.

I know nothing about a bill of goods.

originally posted by: SteamyJeans
As someone who enjoys dipping pizza in their ranch, this is offensive. If you don't like my condiment Choice mind your own business. Leave the restaurant.leave the coUntry we don't need your bigotry here!
A slice and 3 cups of ranch she be able to enjoy holy Union in my mouth without you low IQ conservatives coming around and making me uncomfortable.

In fact maybe I'll purposely openly eat ranchy pizza everywhere i go just to make a stand against my oppressors...
a reply to: WeAre0ne

Good God, man! You eat your pizza with ranch! How dare you? You should be shot ...

But really, there is even room here for someone like goofy Kasich who eats his New York pizza with a fork. I mean really!

And I eat mine with a flat slice while my husband always folds his.

Plenty of room for us all to eat our pizza how we like. Just don't come over into my face and tell me I have to love my pizza with ranch and help you dip your slices.

Wait.

I'm choosing to dip my slice. You should have to help me dip my slice, or at least pay for my ranch?
If not, i might feel like you don't like ranch w/ your pie, and therefore you hate me and want to oppress me because I want ranch with mine!?!?



As The mysterious Queen of the Hidden Valley famously said "Let them dip their slice!"





a reply to: ketsuko

Hatred in all forms is learned. I'm convinced that human beings are born without hatred.

originally posted by: Enlil2215
a reply to: Bone75

I just want to ask a question. So because of your feelings towards homosexual men, would you be more inclined to treat them differently than a heterosexual male?

No. I don't hate or even dislike gay men just because I'm grossed out by their sexuality, but I do admit that I'm not a big fan of vicious little backstabbing lying drama queens (which 9 out of 10 gay men I meet tend to be).

But even then, I'll still defend a gay person if I see them getting bullied.

originally posted by: Bone75

originally posted by: Enlil2215
a reply to: Bone75

I just want to ask a question. So because of your feelings towards homosexual men, would you be more inclined to treat them differently than a heterosexual male?

No. I don't hate or even dislike gay men just because I'm grossed out by their sexuality, but I do admit that I'm not a big fan of vicious little backstabbing lying drama queens (which 9 out of 10 gay men I meet tend to be).

But even then, I'll still defend a gay person if I see them getting bullied.

Pretty much.

I may not like what they do in their personal lives and think it's an internal, instinctive impulse that prompts that distaste. Their personal bedroom habits are not the total person. Where they shop, what things they like to do, what they like to eat, emotions, etc., all those other things are more or less the same sorts of things all the rest of us pick and choose our daily activities from.

Those are all things we can have in common and can bring us together. We can share those parts of our humanity.

Even our various pizza eating habits ...

So long as the bedrooms stuff stays more or less there, we can tolerate and even like one another, defend each other, etc.

So the idea that just because our instincts prompt us away from mating with them makes us "homophobic" as if we run screaming from them is just absurd.

a reply to: ImaFungi

So men should actually love gay dudes because it's less competition for them? Makes sense to me. Anyone who thinks they're born genetically hating something is... An idiot. Long term conditioning won, humanity lost. Blame your parents & their parents etc etc

originally posted by: SmurfRider
a reply to: ImaFungi

So men should actually love gay dudes because it's less competition for them? Makes sense to me. Anyone who thinks they're born genetically hating something is... An idiot. Long term conditioning won, humanity lost. Blame your parents & their parents etc etc

Im not sure that is quite true, though.

Parents are only part of the input a child recieves. They also have the world at large, not to mention the result of the neurochemicals doing what they do while the child mulls things over in their own head.

I have 2 children. They are polar opposites, and any assessment of one that ties back directly to parenting will likely be called into question when the other is evaluated. If you judge me as a parent based on my oldest child, I'd get awards. If you judged me as a parent based on my youngest child, you may say I was unfit.

The truth is: they both had the same upbringing full of love, acceptance, and personal responsibility. But that input is only part of the equation. The other part is how that input is assimilated into the "Mental Processing Grid" made up of personal viewpoints, neurochemicals (read: emotions), and past experience (much of which doesn't include the parent, as a child isn't always with the parent).

Yes, i know....i got on a soapbox about something you really didn't even say.

a reply to: SmurfRider

Generally natural form of population control, less sexual mate competition, and the potential to adopt the unwanted children of irresponsible heterosexual parents.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

No I get what you're saying & it is applicable. But people who fervently hate gays/blacks/anything probably didn't feel that way as a young child. I think it was a Bill Maher quote, "The only thing my 5year old hates are naps. End of list."

True it is not always parents directly instilling hate or other kinds of values, there are also peer influences & exposure to different things through good & bad experiences with others/the world as well throughout life, but it still comes down to long term conditioning & other people's conditioning that conditions you over time, depending on how easily you are swayed by the opinions of others.

It is absolutely in no way possible to be genetically born to hate something. There's a lot of things that you can argue nature vs nurture about. This, in my opinion, isn't one of them. Pure nurture.

originally posted by: ketsuko


And as a straight woman, it doesn't matter if it's two men or two women, I feel a bit revolted. Reading about it is much less inflammatory to my senses.

I would have to say it's likely instinct born of being a biological species that reproduces heterosexually.

.

Exactly. When people are uneasy/nauseated around homosexuals, its as instinctive as feeling nauseated by a foul odour. This feeling is 100% natural. So why wont they accept homophobes as born that way???
p.s-good video

a reply to: SmurfRider

No, you aren't born hating anything.

But you are born with a propensity for building neural pathways for those kinds of intellectual features. The fact that we are relative thinkers makes it possible for cumulative 'microaggressions" (my god, did i just use that term????) to aggregate into growing distrust, festering into hatred.

Is it mentally healthy? Absolutely not. Is it something we should accept from others or ourselves? Absolutely not. But is it something that we can at least "grok" enough that we can find a way to understand it?

Or, to put it another way: when confronted with a vile and hateful person, would it be more prudent to pity them, rather than reciprocate the hatred?

a reply to: clevargenuis

I attempted to advance your points and discussion, by asking this important next realm of general question;

Lets say, all gay people accepted that type A homophobes are born homophobes, and they accept that a type B homophobe might not be born a homophobe but can become one;

What then?

You see that is one step;

Which opens the doors to other steps;

Primarily, the nature of law.

Are you leading towards the wondering; if A and B are accepted as natural facts;

Then should it be legal fact, that a homophobe business owner can deny homo business?

Should it be legal fact, that a business owner can deny business to anyone for any or no reason at all?

Should it be legal fact, that homophobes can wear t shirts and have bumper stickers declaring their thoughts and feelings?

Should homophobes be allowed to go up to gay people in public and follow them around and say how disgusting they are?

Should homophobes be able to stand outside a gay persons home wearing t shirts that say "I was born to think that gay people are disgusting" holding signs that say the same, and chanting the same?

originally posted by: ImaFungi
a reply to: clevargenuis

Should homophobes be allowed to go up to gay people in public and follow them around and say how disgusting they are

I wouldnt do that.

If SOME homosexuals are vocal about how they enjoy homosexual sex, then SOME homophobes can also voice there opinions about homosexuals. Fair????

Or do you deny born homophobes the right to free speech?

originally posted by: clevargenuis


Or do you deny born homophobes the right to free speech?

Depends how you define free speech; I asked some questions which would help us approach defining free speech;


Then should it be legal fact, that a homophobe business owner can deny homo business?

Should it be legal fact, that a business owner can deny business to anyone for any or no reason at all?

Should it be legal fact, that homophobes can wear t shirts and have bumper stickers declaring their thoughts and feelings?

Should homophobes be allowed to go up to gay people in public and follow them around and say how disgusting they are?

Should homophobes be able to stand outside a gay persons home wearing t shirts that say "I was born to think that gay people are disgusting" holding signs that say the same, and chanting the same?

a reply to: clevargenuis

I've been involved in multiple communities with many gay people. I'm a straight male despite being raised doing musical theatre & tap dance. I lived in San Francisco during college. I lived most of my mid20s in LA & going to west Hollywood all the time. I live in Portland now & a lot of the dudes at my current job are gay & you can only tell about a few of them are by their mannerisms & none of them actually told me themselves they're gay. Never in my life has a gay man/woman gone out of their way to tell me how much they love being homosexual & having sex with other men/woman.
Can't say the same for the other side, unfortunately.

Nice job cherry picking Fungis post though.

originally posted by: ImaFungi

originally posted by: clevargenuis


Or do you deny born homophobes the right to free speech?

Then should it be legal fact, that a homophobe business owner can deny homo business?

Should it be legal fact, that a business owner can deny business to anyone for any or no reason at all?

Should it be legal fact, that homophobes can wear t shirts and have bumper stickers declaring their thoughts and feelings?

?

If homosexuals can choose who they do business with ..and if they get to be vocal about their identity, then whats good for the goose would be good for the gander.

Should homophobes be allowed to go up to gay people in public and follow them around and say how disgusting they are?

Should homophobes be able to stand outside a gay persons home wearing t shirts that say "I was born to think that gay people are disgusting" holding signs that say the same, and chanting the same

Free Speech.