The Mandela Effect Can No Longer Be Denied: Berenstein Was The Tip of The Iceberg

a reply to: Gryphon66

So .... scientific understanding is useless because there are different theoretical bases for describing the finer points of something like, say, time, gravity and other fundamental forces, and since we know that our perceptions of reality are so flawed and incomplete we couldn't trust whatever method or paradigm to parse and interpret it anyway ... what do we do?

Wow. That is not what I said. I didn't say "scientific understanding is useless" AT ALL!! I didn't say "believe whatever we want." Good Gracious, Gryphon, don't put such words in my mouth!!! Seriously annoying.

I was pondering the difficulty of using science in the context of "time" and "perception" and how it is not really clear yet via science how everything fits together! I didn't say "oh gosh now gravity doesn't exist so by all means jump! Wheeee!"

Why the heck would you think that my post said those things? You read into my words meanings that do not exist and extrapolated what you apparently WANTED to perceive in my words, and then came back with a somewhat snarky and patronizing tone to "challenge" what YOU CREATED out of my post. Why? Perception is a funny thing that way, no?

Where have I said there is "no truth, no fact?" Where have I said there were "no standards to compare anything to?"

Nowhere. That is all in your own head.

Ok. So where does that leave us? Me, I'm just musing about what an amazing thing the brain is, that it can take in particles and frequencies and turn them into our perceptions of "reality."

I am willing to admit I don't know everything about what "reality" and "time" are, and frankly I would be incredibly impressed if you could point out to Hawking and Greene which theory of time is true...Can you? SO, IF (and it's a BIG IF) we were dealing with some kind of weird phenomenon, we might not have the scientific tools with which to make logical sense of it. How is that illogical? How is that somehow "believing whatever I want?"

How do you even know what I believe from my post, anyway? I left open a door to multiple possibilities, true, including misperception.

Misunderstandings happen all the time. Gravity does not push us away from the earth. I get that. My point was to explain in my own words why it is so unsettling to experience a "memory" that doesn't seem to add up to "reality."

I have made no attempt to give an ultimate reason for what other people have experienced, but for myself, I have zero idea why I thought some of these things were true, but don't seem to match external reality. It bothers me. I would most likely attribute it to my brain misremembering something, but I am open to hearing other theories and ideas, not because I have no standards, have trashed science, and want to "believe whatever I want" but because it interests me intellectually to do so.

People mis-perceive things all the time, and yes, this is a fact, scientifically documented via psychology studies. (Witness your own misperception of my words, perhaps, as an example).

In some ways its a survival trait of the human species that we limit the data we take in, "fill in the blanks" sometimes. My son has severe autism and CAN'T "screen things out" the way a normal person can. He wears headphones because he hears too many sounds and his visual ability is amazing, so is his eye-hand coordination and sense of where things are in a room. He immediately notices anything that is "different" and will go up to investigate it. His senses, while having the same general human limitations of spectrum, are not filtered by his brain the way a neuro-typical person's are. As a result, the world can be overwhelming sensorily with way too much data pouring in to the point where he freaks out. His memory is very strong for things he cares about (mostly people he loves), and he's quite clever. He is non verbal, so it is very hard to test him on things, of course, and some of what I've said above is an extrapolation, but one I feel is accurate.

Do you not think the brain is an incredible instrument? Doesn't the process of taking in photons and frequencies, wave forms and chemical processes and then interpreting "reality" based on our "receiver" seem fascinating? How much do we NOT perceive? Obviously whole spectrums of frequencies and scales (i.e. the very small and enormously large) are not available to us, which means there may be whole aspects of this thing called "reality" that we know NOTHING of on a regular basis, and may never know anything about, even if we imagine/theorize it (we would have no way of testing it, ergo it could never be proved). How freaking cool is that?????

So. Please stop putting words in my mouth and then challenging those words as if they came from me. Please do listen to what I'm saying and perhaps we can have an interesting conversation.

peace,

- AB

originally posted by: raymundoko
a reply to: Ruiner1978

I own the theatrical release of it on VHS, she does not have braces.

Can we have some sort of proof of that claim?

A couple of pics of the video cover and the scene on your TV with a piece of paper with your screen name and today's date in the shots should clear this up without question, and would be a great help to this debate.

a reply to: AboveBoard

Notice the word "paraphrase" in my first line? No, of course I didn't try to quote you. And also, notice the QUESTION MARKS at the end of the last FOUR COMMENTS in my post ...

I stated that I was paraphrasing, and then, I asked you clarifying questions.

It is certainly clear from a working perspective what time is. We use the concept of time on millions of incidences every day.

In very fine, very critical circumstances one might add. Like, air traffic control, micro-surgeries, even highway traffic control.

Even the most mundane of descriptions for "time" (what a clock measures) has served quite well to achieve fairly amazing things over the last few centuries.

Sorry for the perceived "snarky tone." You yourself commented on the fallibility of perception, didn't you?

No one knows "everything" about what reality is. Or time, gravity, mass, matter, energy etc. But we don't have to "know everything" to use such concepts and concepts that build upon those to interpret what we experience in productive, meaningful and useful ways.

I cannot, of course, gauge how much the discovery that memories, perceptions and cognitions can be mistaken causes discomfort, pain, mental anguish etc. to anyone. I've never even implied that I could. Wow, talk about putting words in someone's mouth!

I do know that the simple observation that each and every one of these "episodes" could have a basic, real-world, non-fantastic solution brings comfort to me, and I think it might comfort others. Even taken all together (and I haven't seen anyone yet who experiences every one of these "Event(s)" exactly the same, which should make a very clear statement about what they are) these "Event(s)" are a mere fraction of the millions or billions of facts, experiences, knowledges, data-points we store in our memories. Even if the "flawed" memories were the 500 mentioned here versus only a million memories, what would that error rate be? Something like 0.005%? Pretty decent if you ask me.

(And before I'm accused of "just pulling numbers out of the air" ...)

Most computational neuroscientists tend to estimate human storage capacity somewhere between 10 terabytes and 100 terabytes, though the full spectrum of guesses ranges from 1 terabyte to 2.5 petabytes. (One terabyte is equal to about 1,000 gigabytes or about 1 million megabytes; a petabyte is about 1,000 terabytes.)

Scientific American - "What Is the Memory Capacity of the Human Brain?"

But, by FOCUSING on these mistakes, and entering them into the fantastic narrative provided by "The Mandela Effect(s)" ... they take on a far, far greater importance (and cause far greater reactions and negative feelings) than just considering that they are very "acceptable losses" in the range of 0.005% (or actually much much less).

Is it really a misperception of your words when I asked four questions in a row about your words? Seems like I stated my understanding in my own words (aka paraphrase) and then set out to give you ample opportunity to speak for yourself.

I didn't put words in your mouth! I offered you some of my words in response, and then asked you questions that gave you the free option of answering!

I'm glad you seem to believe in science, and that you seem to believe in some standard version of reality. (Although I would note, you didn't really answer any of my questions directly, and they were pretty simple questions I thought. That's absolutely fine too though!)

Yes, the human mind is amazing, even given its flaws. That's why I hate to see one of our greatest achievements, our scientific understanding hard fought for over millennia casually cast aside (by some, apparently not by you) as if it were "just another way of knowing" like religious belief, intuition, "empathy," or any of the other paradigms.

So, rationally, given your understanding that our perceptions and processing can be less than perfect, may I invite you to muse on?

If that's true, then the most reasonable explanation, and the simplest, requiring the least amount of supposition, the fewest number of assumptions ... is that these "Mandela Event(s)" are based on those less than perfect or limited processors and storage mechanisms?

If so, we're fairly close in what we're saying here. If not, we disagree. Both are okay!

I just don't see the downside of a natural explanation. I don't see the value in assuming "time travel" or "dimensional shift" or "divine intervention." But that, it seems like it should be needless to say, is me and my perceptions.

Your mileage may vary!

a reply to: Ruiner1978

heres a better idea - why doesnt some one making the " bracers " claim show some evidence of this ?

picture , vid clip etc etc

originally posted by: ignorant_ape
a reply to: Ruiner1978

heres a better idea - why doesnt some one making the " bracers " claim show some evidence of this ?

picture , vid clip etc etc

I am one of the strongest believers in this effect... And I have already been shocked one too many times into numbness over all this, and it has taken over my life......

So, all i can say is, i bet they are telling the truth...scary as it is.... When i first saw "Luie I am your father" changed, it changed me....

a reply to: LoneCloudHopper2


Thanks for the tip! I realized it didn't post right so I just gave up and posted the link instead.

originally posted by: raymundoko
a reply to: TombEscaper

I would say you didn't actually find the correct spelling of Gahdhi a year ago.

The map fallacy is just that, a fallacy. Again, map makers do different things to make a map fit on a single page. They move continents, islands and enlarge/shrink land masses.

You are using a circular logic again by saying "yes, memory is faulty, but non mine, I know this was a fact?". How do you know it was a fact? Because your fault memory is telling you it's a fact. See the circular logic there?

I also like how you say "I don't remember it, but some people say" about the bond girl. If you don't remember it why are you using it as proof of your view? The girl who liked Jaws never had braces. She had perfect teeth and she didn't mind that Jaws had metal teeth. That was the point of the shot.

Then, you say people who disagree with you are "Shady". The video just proves what I have been saying the entire time. That's just poor form on your part.

Another logical fallacy: Your coworker disagrees with you and remembers it correctly, so that is PROOF of a timeline merge. Please research logical fallacies. You really really need to. You can't use them in a debate or argument.

I didn't use the Bond video as "proof" of anything. I was merely bringing up the fact that that's what many people seem to remember, and also the fact that it is mighty odd that it only seems to be recently that people remember (or mis-remember according to you) her having braces, and are now confounded that they are no longer there.

There are different "levels of certainty" to this effect. For instance, many people are sure that things have been geographically rearranged in the area of Australia. I myself admit that I don't remember specifically the set up of Australia in relation to New Zealand and the other islands nearby. Yes, memory can fail. But I am 100% certain that South America has shifted far to the east of where it used to be in relation to North America. I remember for certain that it was located more directly in alignment with North America.

None of us say our memories are 100% infallible about everything, though the "twisters" that participate here continue to insinuate that's what we are saying. Some things may be a little foggy, but some things are far too clear to ever be convinced that we are "misremembering."

What I find interesting is that you and others like you are on a soapbox about the fallibility of the memory of masses of people, and yet, you are quite certain that your memory is correct that "The girl who liked Jaws never had braces. She had perfect teeth and she didn't mind that Jaws had metal teeth. That was the point of the shot." The "opposers" in this thread certainly seem to be very sure about their memories specifically in regard to rebuttals to the ME's that people are experiencing.

That is very interesting indeed.

As much as I try to remove myself from this discussion (and this whole issue), I keep getting drawn back into it.

Yesterday, I was at a store and perusing the magazine rack. There were multiple Prince "tribute" magazines there, and I was flipping through them. And something odd caught my eye in the photos of him. Literally, it jumped off the page at me. I'm not going to say what it is, but for the Prince people here, does anything seem "off" about these pictures of Prince, in comparison to how you have seen him throughout the years?

maybe it is not even possible to use just language to understand this stuff...
maybe it´s a mix of science and weird inter-dimensional humor. but i think we will be fine.

I tried listening to a Reba album , reading a Berenstein bears book while wearing Depends to energize my flux capacitor and it didnt work.

Here are a couple more interesting photos. In fact, all of the photos and videos that we have of Prince now have this glaring change, as far as I perceive it. Does anyone else see what I see?

originally posted by: AboveBoard
a reply to: TravelleOn

Giza?? Okay. I looked. What do you think is different about it?

Thanks!

- AB

There used to be one great pyramid, not two, and whole complex is way too near Kairo

mgkhs.com...

originally posted by: TombEscaper
Here are a couple more interesting photos. In fact, all of the photos and videos that we have of Prince now have this glaring change, as far as I perceive it. Does anyone else see what I see?

Dot at the left cheek, and nose went smaller. His whole body and skull looks indeed off compared to old pics. Neck is three times taller.

some make-up and a different haircut do miracles...

originally posted by: AcerM

originally posted by: AboveBoard
a reply to: TravelleOn

Giza?? Okay. I looked. What do you think is different about it?

Thanks!

- AB

There used to be one great pyramid, not two, and whole complex is way too near Kairo

mgkhs.com...

There is still only one Great Pyramid, not two. The three major pyramids are supposed by some to represent Orion's belt.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

The problem with the so-called "Mandela Effect," as well as other "alternate timeline" theories is that if everything in the universe has changed, there is no way to prove it.

originally posted by: TombEscaper

What I find interesting is that you and others like you are on a soapbox about the fallibility of the memory of masses of people, and yet, you are quite certain that your memory is correct ...

Nope. Several of us have stated, clearly, that we still have "memory dissonance" when it comes to a few things (Like, for me, Mr. Roger's Themesong, Cup Noodles, etc.). However, it is not our memories we trust, but physical evidence, photographs, video recordings, satellite imagery, etc. So, no, it's not so simply reducible to "my memory versus yours."

Although, of course, the insistence that your universe has changed as opposed to memory issues is subjectively unassailable.

As us so called "twisters" have noted several times in several different ways.

Far far back in this thread, I mentioned confirmation bias. Compare that with what you're saying about "continuing to look for the 'Mandela Effect(s) and finding more and more instances of it happening."

Confirmation bias, again, the human tendency to discover what we're looking for.

As to why some of us keep posting when we have been called everything in the book ... you yourself have said how negatively the beliefs that your universe has shifted somehow around you is causing you pain.

Why is the possibility that your memory had some errors which is now compounded by "looking for" the "Mandela Effects(s)" so repellant or repugnant or disgusting to you?

And even if you are intent on continuing to look for the fantastic solution ... why are you so troubled by others who are relieved by the mundane one?

originally posted by: ignorant_ape
a reply to: Ruiner1978

heres a better idea - why doesnt some one making the " bracers " claim show some evidence of this ?

picture , vid clip etc etc

No that's not a better idea at all as no one's made the claim to have that proof in their possession.
I suggested a perfectly valid, non-fantastical explanation as I don't believe she's never had braces, and I have a feeling there's a gross misremembering and/or dishonesty from the other camp.
Raymundoko could very easily put this one to bed, or at the very least, give me peace of mind...

Are you not interested in definitive proof that will back up your stance?

originally posted by: DJW001

originally posted by: AcerM

originally posted by: AboveBoard
a reply to: TravelleOn

Giza?? Okay. I looked. What do you think is different about it?

Thanks!

- AB

There used to be one great pyramid, not two, and whole complex is way too near Kairo

mgkhs.com...

There is still only one Great Pyramid, not two. The three major pyramids are supposed by some to represent Orion's belt.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

The problem with the so-called "Mandela Effect," as well as other "alternate timeline" theories is that if everything in the universe has changed, there is no way to prove it.

Not only that, of course, but the stated facts here among those who cling to being "experiencers" that there are differnt sets of "Effect(s)" that they experience. Does this mean that they all shifted from multiple different realities, or, that their memories are accurate on somethings and not others ...

As many of us have said over and over, what is the simplest, most straight-forward explanation?

Universe shifting or memory issue?

originally posted by: raymundoko
a reply to: Ruiner1978

I own the theatrical release of it on VHS, she does not have braces.

www.retro-daze.org...

Looks like she has a mouth full of metal to me...

originally posted by: TravelleOn
There are so many examples of this happening now,for example a google image search of the Giza plateau should raise an eyebrow or two. Pay attention to the position of the great pyramid in respect of the other 2 in the various photo's and other images shown.

This is just the beginning of something huge and my feeling is that in order for us to weather the storm so to speak we will need to have an anchor,the tricky thing with that is that our "anchor" cannot be based in anything so subject to sudden radical alteration or change.
We need to look within ourselves to anchor,something inherent within that is not the result of our experience in this particular reality or world as we have known it.

Terrence McKenna was onto something with his "Timewave Zero" theory,in particular his notion of an acceleration into novelty,this phenomenon certainly qualifies as an example of such "novelty".

I have not looked at Giza yet. I don't want to look. Someone else mentioned the Great Pyramid is no longer so great. That another pyramid is matching it in height, which makes the moniker nonsensical. It's called the Great Pyramid because it's the largest one. It towers above the rest and is far more elaborate.

They used a lot of tufta and travertine, which was very expensive and had to be imported or gathered and transported because it was not available to them locally. It took them a very long time to build that structure. Close to four decades, if they worked 'round the clock, 24/7.

I wrote and presented a six page report about Giza, with photos and a shadow box model in Art History Appreciation-201 when I was in nursing school. That was during the spring semester in 2000. I received an 'A+' grade on it, including extra credit points. It took me nearly an entire week to put it together.

My professor was a diehard ancient Egypt fanatic. She and her family took a trip every year to visit the Giza plateau. She had gobs of photos that she shared with us. We studied the architecture and the reasons behind it. I spent a solid month immersed in all things Giza.

So I really don't want to see what happened to it. Of course, I have to eventually, I realize that. And just a few years ago, they were talking about demolishing it. I was so relieved when they didn't. Damn it all. I wonder if any other monuments have been altered.