The Mandela Effect Can No Longer Be Denied: Berenstein Was The Tip of The Iceberg

a reply to: TombEscaper

I am a big Prince fan and I must have sung his song "Lets Go Crazy" a million times. You know you do something that many times it is not a memory problem. I remember singing "Dearly Beloved, we are gathered here today to CELEBRATE this thing called life." Now when I look it up it says something completely different. the lyrics say "To GET THRU this thing called life." That is not what I grew up singing.

originally posted by: raymundoko
a reply to: tigertatzen

It's kind of presumptuous of you to think that you are the only person who can come up with such a saying...

In turn, it is kind of presumptuous of you to assume that's what I think in the first place. It is nowhere close. If you had bothered to ask me rather than make blind assumptions about me based on something you took out of context that I said to another poster, you'd know that.

About Reba McEntire/McIntyre thing. I was trying to check for memorabilias, like tickets, old posters and such and checked Ebay and found a guy selling "REBA McINTYRE magazine clippings". www.ebay.com... If you scroll through pictures of magazines you can see in several of them it is spelled McEntire.

There are many other items found if you type " Reba McIntyre" in Ebay search windows There are 35 offers with titles "McIntyre" even when people are selling CDs with cover or disc print clearly saying McEntire.

But you can find 3.500+ hits on Ebay if you type "Reba McEntire"...


So, as asked in my previous post on page 74: when is time shift from Intyre to Entire supposed to happen? For each person who experiences this ME at a different time?? Or just once, let's say in 2014 and several 100 or 1000 of people got caught in this (one and only) shift and the shift retroactively changed all articles, record covers and other data ever mentioning McIntyre? And the remaining McIntyre hits are there only cause nothing in universe is perfect?

originally posted by: Ruiner1978

originally posted by: raymundoko
a reply to: Ruiner1978

I own the theatrical release of it on VHS, she does not have braces.

www.retro-daze.org...

Looks like she has a mouth full of metal to me...

At first look it does appear she has braces.. zoomed in not so much. So I cropped the photo from that site and it's still hard to tell:

I have a digital copy of Moonraker that I've had since 2012 so I grabbed this screen shot:

It would be interesting to me to see a screenshot from a VHS copy....

a reply to: Gryphon66

Hey Gryphon,

You received the reaction you did from me because you misinterpreted what I said, then asked questions based on your misinterpretation. It didn't help that the way you interpreted me was not only erroneous but somewhat offensive in tone, implying I was a science-denier and, if you are fair, you will see derision in your writing and in your questions. Thank you for the apology.

Perhaps it will help if I actually define my own point of view on this more clearly, so you don't have to extrapolate my other post into an incorrect assumption of my world-view. (Still not sure how that happened but whatever. Perhaps you thought I was giving some sort of complete treatise on the subject??)

1) I, too, applaud science and appreciate the immense strides we as a species have made in figuring out how the world and the universe work on many different levels from the quantum to the exploration of our more familiar physical world. I also appreciate logic, common sense and reasonableness of all kinds.

2) There is absolutely NOTHING wrong from my perspective with using the science we understand about how our brains work, how the universe in general works on a daily basis, and applying it when our memories do not match external reality. I appreciate that gives you comfort, which completely makes sense with what I actually said before - when we can take a "weird" experience and ground it into "the known" it makes it no longer "weird." Take my UFO example from earlier - my first instinct was to fit that experience into a "known reality" where it would make sense. When I couldn't do that, it rocked my world.

3) The "Mandela Effect" is not as much of a problem for me personally as the UFO event, because i can reasonably put it into the category of "known memory issues of the human brain" for myself for the most part, HOWEVER when someone has a complex neural net associated with a memory including multi-sensory, multi-experience, and emotional anchors, it is much more disturbing and much harder to dismiss as a simple memory-gap. For someone in that situation, the fabric of their reality has been much more significantly torn than mine is by these "ME's." That is the point where it gets intellectually interesting for me to explore.

To expand: There is a difference between what people are seeing with an "ME" than a run of the mill memory issue, for two important reasons (at least to their own perception). The first is that a lot of memory slips are mundane and, while frustrating, don't have a broader context in people's lives. If I forget the milk at the store or think my boss's wife's name is Shirley when it's Charlotte (ack!), it might be frustrating or cause anxiety or a social faux pas, but it doesn't have the same intensity as having a whole SET of memories associated with something that are now called into question. The second, is when we forget the milk or misremember a name, it's just us - we know it's just us in an isolated event. We remember the milk next time. We write her darn name on our hand for next time...

With "ME", there is, rightly or wrongly, a sense of a collective shared experience and corroboration of what one remembered to be true but is now apparently not (due to the inter-webs here and sites like ATS), where people experience the shock of realizing that something they "knew" is now mysteriously wrong, despite the multi-layered/multi-sensory (and perhaps reinforced through multiple experiences) neural net they have.

For example: The family making up a song or jokes about it multiple times as a sort of "family tradition." Playing a song over and over and memorizing it as a teen because you have intense emotional stuff going on in your life and Prince is your idol and you love him (I'm not saying this is me, by the way, or trying to characterize anyone on this site - these are hypotheticals based on things I've read about regarding people's shock over a "ME" type memory issue.)

AND, in addition to a complex neural net of some kind, that OTHER PEOPLE FEEL THE EXACT SAME WAY AND HAVE THE SAME EXPERIENCES. That's where the "weird" factor gets real for folks. It's not just Person X misremembering or forgetting something random that they can dismiss, but Person X discovering that a personal memory that has multiple layers and associations for them is suddenly "wrong" and on top of that a whole bunch of other people are having the same exact "dissonance" in their own memories. There appears, then, to be corroboration for what Person X remembers as being "real." Granted, not everyone has a complex neural net involving a "ME" type experience, but some people have expressed situations involving a complex neural net surrounding an ME. I find that fascinating.

Does it mean that because multiple people are involved and that it involves a more complex neural net that it has to be "anything goes and throw science out the window?" NO! That is absolutely NOT what I am saying. It just puts it into a category where the POSSIBILITY that "something outside the box of known knowns" MAY be happening. I hope that is clear enough and that you aren't going to accuse me again of throwing reason out the window and chucking science into the trash bin. I NEVER said that.

4) There is also absolutely NOTHING wrong with taking a "weird" and "out of the box" experience and exploring it in ways that are new. In fact, I would argue, that is how science itself often progresses!!

Some person looks at the horizon and pushes against the "known" fact that the world is flat and at the edges of the sea there be dragons. . Another person scoffs at them because obviously the world is flat. Duh. Everyone knows we'd fall off of it if it were round (sarcasm)...See what I mean?

Someone looks at ME and says, "IF my neural net isn't faulty (because I have corroboration from others that what I experienced was real) THEN what does that say about the nature of reality itself?" Since SCIENCE is NOT FIXED but in an EVER EXPANDING QUEST FOR COMPREHENDING THE NATURE OF REALITY, when something is consistently "out of the box" in our perception, it makes sense to try and create a theory that encompasses our experience.

Then you get all sorts of speculation happening, some of which gets wild and some of which is attempting to take known science and see if it CAN be applied to that "if/then." It is SPECULATIVE. Some people may "believe" one particular theory over another, but I am not "believing" anything here - merely intrigued. I am asking myself, "hey, what if this means the world isn't flat after all?" to pull from my earlier analogy. It's fun, frankly.

I have pointed out that "time" is not a hard and fast "known" in the scientific world. That doesn't mean I'm a "science denier." In fact, that makes me a "science embracer" who is willing to acknowledge both the awesomeness and the limitations of science. Science should not require people to "believe" in it, and so I don't "believe" in science like one would "believe" in a religion. It is, however, the highest investigative tool that mankind has discovered to understand the nature of physical, measurable reality. To say it has no limitations would be erroneous, and so I'm just acknowledging that we don't know everything. (to be continued...)

a reply to: tigertatzen

Just an aside, I was surprised, after reading one of your posts, to see a TV commercial last night for a comic's stand up routine called "I'm not fat... I'm fuzzy."

So either it's a known saying/thing, and independent copy, or it was the universe drinking again.

I have a friend who swears they coined the term "wife beater" tank top in the 1980's... but others have sworn they had heard it for decades before that... maybe my fried DID coin the term, but others did, too, independently... or maybe they heard it, put it in their mental pocket, and "rediscovered" it, later, or it was an example of the Sheldrake "Morphic Resonance" or something?

Dunno, but thought you'd like to know... and no, cannot remember the comic's name.. .but bet Google would find it... unless I was dreaming, and at this point, who knows.

Back to destroying my sense of reality...

eta:Ah... Gabriel I is the name!.. .I see someone else saw the same tour commercial.. .again, sorry for posting before reading the new posts!
eta x2 BUT what surprised me in the first place, was I had never heard that phrase before, ever, and now it's 'common' (if 2 instances is common) all of a sudden... is what I meant, heh.. .a strange coincidence (synchronicity)!

etaX3 and the Giza Plateau is how I remember it.. .they are still great, nearly great and the little guy off center with a few teensy ones nearby... and Cairo has grown around them, enveloping them... so ... same, at least in my universe.

originally posted by: raymundoko
a reply to: tigertatzen

I'm called a jerk and I'm the hostile one...

I have not referred to anyone on this thread as a jerk. You actually called yourself a jerk. And you asked a question. I answered it.

That answer has not changed. No, people who disagree are not jerks. Only the people who disagree and choose to act like jerks in the process. You seem to have taken that as a personal slight. And you reacted accordingly, in a derisive and hostile manner. But your negativity is unnecessary and misplaced.

My intent was not what you assumed it to be. If I thought you were a jerk personally, I would have stated that very plainly. Until you reacted the way you did, I had zero problem with you.

You essentially created your own alternate reality in which you cast me as a villain. But in my reality, I was simply answering a question.

a reply to: Gryphon66

Post Script/Follow Up:

I cannot, of course, gauge how much the discovery that memories, perceptions and cognitions can be mistaken causes discomfort, pain, mental anguish etc. to anyone. I've never even implied that I could. Wow, talk about putting words in someone's mouth!

And, I never said you did. ??? No words were put in your mouth, Gryph. I never said I could gauge that either...

Personally, I think you put me in a particular "camp" and made a bunch of assumptions about me and what I was saying based on that. Those assumptions were wrong.

If you want to "paraphrase" things in your own words rather than quote me, if you have misunderstood me and seem derisive based on your misunderstanding, I will correct you. From a conversational point of view, I would appreciate it if you said something more like "I'm hearing you say that... Is that what you are really saying?"

Depending on what comes in between those two phrases, I will be much more likely to feel you are genuinely trying to understand me, and not throwing up a false image of me as being an idiot. Respect is always appreciated.

So, rationally, given your understanding that our perceptions and processing can be less than perfect, may I invite you to muse on?

If that's true, then the most reasonable explanation, and the simplest, requiring the least amount of supposition, the fewest number of assumptions ... is that these "Mandela Event(s)" are based on those less than perfect or limited processors and storage mechanisms?

If so, we're fairly close in what we're saying here. If not, we disagree. Both are okay!

I just don't see the downside of a natural explanation. I don't see the value in assuming "time travel" or "dimensional shift" or "divine intervention." But that, it seems like it should be needless to say, is me and my perceptions.

I don't think its unreasonable to consider a whole bunch of ME stuff as normal memory lapses or flaws in how we process information. It is a responsible part of any investigation to look at how what we already know can be applied to the problem. I am simultaneously holding open the option that this is an opportunity for discovery that might add to our "known knowns" rather than defy them. That is all.

I am not claiming, again, to be clear, anything other than a "natural" explanation either - I'm just wondering if SOME ME type events might point to a new way of understanding/learning about our "natural" physical reality. Thus my musings on the nature of "time" specifically being "up for debate" amongst scientific luminaries, and my wonderment at how our brains interpret the quantum soup we live in. Different "receiver" = a different experience of "reality."

peace,

= AB

a reply to: OveRcuRrEnteD

The thing that bugs me is that the whole concept was they were simpatico due to both being 'metal mouths'... and her smiling so huge, in so many shots, was to show the braces...

that is an indelible, neurally networked memory for me, like dilemNa... and Louie Anderson being dead, due to circumstances and other memory about discussions over the instances, which make those so remarkable, to me, and so remains a destabilizing WTF instance ... to me (and others, thankfully).

The whole thing makes no sense w/out the braces!

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: TombEscaper

What I find interesting is that you and others like you are on a soapbox about the fallibility of the memory of masses of people, and yet, you are quite certain that your memory is correct ...

Nope. Several of us have stated, clearly, that we still have "memory dissonance" when it comes to a few things (Like, for me, Mr. Roger's Themesong, Cup Noodles, etc.). However, it is not our memories we trust, but physical evidence, photographs, video recordings, satellite imagery, etc. So, no, it's not so simply reducible to "my memory versus yours."

Although, of course, the insistence that your universe has changed as opposed to memory issues is subjectively unassailable.

As us so called "twisters" have noted several times in several different ways.

Far far back in this thread, I mentioned confirmation bias. Compare that with what you're saying about "continuing to look for the 'Mandela Effect(s) and finding more and more instances of it happening."

Confirmation bias, again, the human tendency to discover what we're looking for.

As to why some of us keep posting when we have been called everything in the book ... you yourself have said how negatively the beliefs that your universe has shifted somehow around you is causing you pain.

Why is the possibility that your memory had some errors which is now compounded by "looking for" the "Mandela Effects(s)" so repellant or repugnant or disgusting to you?

And even if you are intent on continuing to look for the fantastic solution ... why are you so troubled by others who are relieved by the mundane one?

If there is one thing you deserve, it is a round of applause. I am actually coming to respect the skill level/advanced psychological manipulation that you have calculated in order to keep this going for dozens of pages with not only a few people, but many. You have an amazing ability to continually antagonize just to the point that people feel the need to continue to reply, but not quite to the point where it can be considered "trolling."

Putting words in people's mouths/posts such as "so repellant or repugnant or disgusting to you," when I never used any of those words, is one of your better tactics. This is why I don't mind playing along; because you know that I know your method: Feigning an interest in the topic while continuing to antagonize and provoke, then playing the victim, repeat.

You can be quite sure I'm not "looking for" this phenomenon, but it appears to be looking for me.

originally posted by: Ruiner1978

originally posted by: raymundoko
a reply to: Ruiner1978

I own the theatrical release of it on VHS, she does not have braces.

www.retro-daze.org...

Looks like she has a mouth full of metal to me...

I see white teeth, no metal...

a reply to: TombEscaper

I am not relying on my memory. I own the movie...relying on memory is what the problem is.

And again, research maps. One map will show one thing, another will show something else. They aren't navigational maps.

a reply to: Ruiner1978

Then you have poor vision...

originally posted by: Baddogma
a reply to: tigertatzen

Just an aside, I was surprised, after reading one of your posts, to see a TV commercial last night for a comic's stand up routine called "I'm not fat... I'm fuzzy."

So either it's a known saying/thing, and independent copy, or it was the universe drinking again.

I have a friend who swears they coined the term "wife beater" tank top in the 1980's... but others have sworn they had heard it for decades before that... maybe my fried DID coin the term, but others did, too, independently... or maybe they heard it, put it in their mental pocket, and "rediscovered" it, later, or it was an example of the Sheldrake "Morphic Resonance" or something?

Dunno, but thought you'd like to know... and no, cannot remember the comic's name.. .but bet Google would find it... unless I was dreaming, and at this point, who knows.

Back to destroying my sense of reality...

eta:Ah... Gabriel I is the name!.. .I see someone else saw the same tour commercial.. .again, sorry for posting before reading the new posts!
eta x2 BUT what surprised me in the first place, was I had never heard that phrase before, ever, and now it's 'common' (if 2 instances is common) all of a sudden... is what I meant, heh.. .a strange coincidence (synchronicity)!

etaX3 and the Giza Plateau is how I remember it.. .they are still great, nearly great and the little guy off center with a few teensy ones nearby... and Cairo has grown around them, enveloping them... so ... same, at least in my universe.

Mine was not "fuzzy", nor was the button I saw in 2014. It was "fluffy". Specifically, "You're not fat, you're just fluffy" ("I'm", in the case of the button, so not exactly identical either). Gabriel Iglesias is one of my husband's favorite comedians, so I've watched that particular standup several times; once very recently.

There is a good possibility that it could simply be natural synchronicity, like when one person has the same idea it happens to be thinking the same thing as another person and they both say it aloud simultaneously.

That's the simplest explanation, and I accepted that as a troubling, yet plausible reason for a long time. Of course, added together with numerous other things that have occurred since the fall of 2011 in my own life causes me to accept that it could be something related to other dimensions bleeding over into ours or vice versa as well. There are many possibilities.

The thing that bugs me is that the whole concept was they were simpatico due to both being 'metal mouths'... and her smiling so huge, in so many shots, was to show the braces...
The whole thing makes no sense w/out the braces!

a reply to: Baddogma

I have to agree that I feel the same about them being metal mouths. I'm a Bond fan and I have the memory of the scene when they smile at each other after she helps him get the big wheel off. Some of the people in the theater chuckled when she smiled. I'm trying not to stay too attached to that specific memory( along with dilemna) because I feel that it could push me a little too far away from reason. I love to push the envelope of my perception, so to speak, but this stuff is taking me pretty far out. I have to continually check my "rope" to make sure it's still attached.

a reply to: TombEscaper

I see what you mean. The eyebrows are definitely different, nose looks a bit different in some pics, and the mole may or may not exist in all of them.

This could be a case of Photoshop and/or make-up/grooming choices. If you can find pictures that clearly show a difference in his ears (i.e. the curve in the cartilage of the ear is like a fingerprint) then if they don't match and its not Photoshopped you might have a real mystery on your hands...

Did I miss anything?

- AB

a reply to: OveRcuRrEnteD

Well, all I can say is that the folks who for eons were asserting that this world is a malleable illusion weren't all dumb or deluded... in fact, a couple were pretty sharp.. .

sharper than this fuzzy haze we are in that used to be a more convincing, coherent world.

Even IF reality is shifting, so what? Life is but a dream... or might as well be as we're all in Plato's Cave, watching the increasingly distorted shadows.

Perhaps someone (or thing, or ourselves) is digging us out... but it's all good.

a reply to: AboveBoard

How did I prejudge you when I asked you a series of questions based on my understanding?

I stated that I was paraphrasing you, expressing my understanding of what you had said. If you don't like my writing style, I'm sorry: I write the way I write, just as you do. I wouldn't ask you to avoid the rather refulgent way you write because of my reaction to it ... I'm confused why you think you can script what I'm saying ... but, be that as it may:

originally posted by: AboveBoard
a reply to: Gryphon66

I don't think its unreasonable to consider a whole bunch of ME stuff as normal memory lapses or flaws in how we process information. It is a responsible part of any investigation to look at how what we already know can be applied to the problem. I am simultaneously holding open the option that this is an opportunity for discovery that might add to our "known knowns" rather than defy them. That is all. I am not claiming, again, to be clear, anything other than a "natural" explanation either - I'm just wondering if SOME ME type events might point to a new way of understanding/learning about our "natural" physical reality. Thus my musings on the nature of "time" specifically being "up for debate" amongst scientific luminaries, and my wonderment at how our brains interpret the quantum soup we live in. Different "receiver" = a different experience of "reality."

You know the funny thing, despite the "communication irritation" between us ... I think you and I are probably saying the same thing to about a 97% factor.

The difference is, I want to see evidence (physical evidence, concrete evidence, etc.) for a time shift if there was one.

Or a dimensional skip, or a deific manipulation.

That's just "who I am." I'm not telling anyone else they can't "be who they are" and believe in time travel, or dimensional jumps of God's will ... but I'm also not going to try to "talk through their hat" ... I just try to say what I mean as clearly as I can.

I have just come back to this thread as yesterday something "just popped in there" I recall about 6 years ago a place I worked had a machine that used to log on a duty console. The basis of this was to plug a plastic square into a machine then input a personal 7 digit code to get the download.

Anyway one day I go in and try to log on and the bloody numbers had been reversed.
It was always showing as

123
456
789
0

on the key pad.

However it had changed to

789
456
123
0

I remember thinking at the time what the hell was going on? and I asked my colleagues about it and no one ever remember my old sequence. I am sure that somewhere I have a picture of the keypad when I very first started there and I would love to dig it out. But to this day I cannot think how the Keypad ended up totally different as there was no work done to it and it was also worn to prove to me it was the old unit..

Anyway just my own 2pc worth and it is something that I can only attribute to the phenomenon that is being discussed.


RA

a reply to: Baddogma

we're all in Plato's Cave, watching the increasingly distorted shadows

...not exactly distorted but overlapping maybe? As if the shadow we perceive is being cast by two or more sources?