NEWS: Evolution Is A Theory Not A Fact Stickers Must Be Removed From Georgia Textbooks

Calling them an unconstitutional endorsement, a federal judge has ordered the removal of stickers from school textbooks that state the evolution is "a theory, not a fact". The school district in question, Cobb County, Georgia, placed the stickers in the books in 2002. In the 44 page opinion the judge pointed out that the stickers had been payed for by the school district and carried an unmistakable political message.



A good ruling with clear separations between church and state backing. Cobb County should no doubt allow stickers for all sorts of crackpot religious and political beliefs. I move that we immediately place stickers indicating that the earth may be round, but it may also be flat. I don't want to even contemplate how many sticker would be required for a comparative religion class. This however highlights a tactic that until this last election that was quietly going on in many parts of America. Frustrated at the polls, many of these ultra religious groups moved to take over city councils, school district's and the like. This is exactly what comes from stuff like this. Lets set our students back about say 200 years.

"This textbook contains material on evolution. Evolution is a theory, not a fact, regarding the origin of living things. This material should be approached with an open mind, studied carefully and critically considered."

How is that an endorsement of religion? Evolution is a theory! That's why it's called the Theory of Evolution. It's ridiculous that a school can't say that not everyone holds that this theory is a fact. Even without saying a word about creationism or religion. I bet one mother got indignant over this and she's the singular reason why it changed.

yeah, i agree. they better not go teaching my kid the theory of relativity untill we actually travel at the speed of light and prove it. Imagine how much more advanced science would be today if it wasnt oppressed through the ages in a similar fashion.

If evolution isn't a theory, then prove it! And by the way IMHO I beleive EVERYTHING should be "approached with an open mind, studied carefully and critically considered." I say put that on ALL BOOKS, especially in Government Schools! That is what should be done with everything everyone hears or learns. Dream the impossible dream! Beat the unbeatable Foe! (Man of la Mancha)



[edit on 13-1-2005 by TheWrAiTH]

Originally posted by jprophet420
yeah, i agree. they better not go teaching my kid the theory of relativity untill we actually travel at the speed of light and prove it. Imagine how much more advanced science would be today if it wasnt oppressed through the ages in a similar fashion.

Actually if you were able to travel at the speed of light, that would disprove the theory of relativity. While I think it's not really a seperation of church/state issue I think the argument that a myriad of stickers demanded by different groups might start showing up on all textbooks may be valid, it's best to just understand this is science and science was never meant to prove or disprove religion.

Originally posted by PistolPete
Even without saying a word about creationism or religion. I bet one mother got indignant over this and she's the singular reason why it changed.

Pete,

Its pretty obvious that that was the intent by the enlightened members of the schoold boards had Creation Science in mind. Eveolution can be backed up and proven time and time again. Creation Science as taught does not even survive the most rudimentary testing and is based on the bible which has dubious origins and is full of errors in inconsistencies.

Edit: According to the article, it was 6 parents combined with the ACLU



[edit on 1/13/05 by FredT]

Originally posted by PistolPete
How is that an endorsement of religion? Evolution is a theory! That's why it's called the Theory of Evolution. It's ridiculous that a school can't say that not everyone holds that this theory is a fact. Even without saying a word about creationism or religion. I bet one mother got indignant over this and she's the singular reason why it changed.

It's the same as if some school had put stickers saying, "Religion is a theory, not a fact." I'm sure that would go over like a lead balloon. It's an attack on people who don't believe in a creator.

Originally posted by TheWrAiTH
If evolution isn't a theory, then prove it!

If "god" isn't a theory, then prove it! You can't, can you? However, there is alot of evidence of evolution. It's just not accepted by people who'd rather believe in their imaginary friend in the sky.

[edit on 13-1-2005 by Damned]

It's not the fact that they shouldn't teach it, it's the fact that they shouldn't strike all dissenting opinions about it out of the equation. When I was learned about evolution in Biology it was taught as a fact - we weren't even taught the criticisms of the theory by non-religious scholars and scientists.

John Taylor Gatto, the New York City teacher of the year several times and highly respected speaker and author in the field of education essentially believes that Darwin, who was an elite, created the the Theory of Evolution as justification to keep the lower classes down. (He made this claim in one of his books, but this snippet is kind of an example of what he thinks.)

www.johntaylorgatto.com
What evolution has to do with the macropolitics of schooling becomes clear if you consider that both are concerned with what should be encouraged to thrive, and what should be helped to perish. Evolutionary theory made all the difference in how systematic schooling was internally arranged. Too much effort wasn’t wasted on hopeless trash, and the good stock was separated from the common. With justification.

Global entrepreneurs such as John D. Rockefeller Sr. and Andrew Carnegie found natural selection to be a perfect explanation for their laissez-faire economic principles. To Rockefeller, for instance, "the growth of large business is merely survival of the fittest"; savage business practices aren’t evil, "merely the working out of a law of nature and a law of God." According to Herbert Spencer, nothing escaped evolution’s power: "every single organism" or institution evolved, religions evolved, economies evolved; evolution exposed democratic theory for the childish fantasy it really was.

Its pretty obvious that that was the intent by the enlightened members of the schoold boards had Creation Science in mind. Eveolution can be backed up and proven time and time again.

And quite often the science behind evolution can be proven bad. But everyone ignores when that happens.

I'll stand by my original statements - nothing in the text of that sticker promoted creationism or religion (even if that's what they had in mind). It doesn't say that they're teaching creationism, it says to keep an open mind.

Evolution is just theory and like all theories it is always subject to revision, unlike religious dogma. I find it hard to believe that there are those who can't see the relationship between all living things that suggest a common ancestry.

It is a person of very weak faith, indeed, who will let science rattle that faith. If we are to limit ourselves to the scientific facts of the Bible, we would have to give up a lot more than the theory of evolution.

As for the theory of relativity, it has been substantiated by many different experiments, such as the behavior of subatomic particles to placing an atomic clock aboard a jet and comparing it's time-keeping to a stationary atomic clock.

It was a waste of money to put stickers in the books to state the obvious and it is a waste of money to have the stickers removed.


[edit on 05/1/13 by GradyPhilpott]

Originally posted by PistolPete

"This textbook contains material on evolution. Evolution is a theory, not a fact, regarding the origin of living things. This material should be approached with an open mind, studied carefully and critically considered."

How is that an endorsement of religion?

Because they alternative that the religious present are religious alternatives. The sticker is something put there by fundamentalists because evolution is at odds with their fundamentalism.

I bet one mother got indignant over this and she's the singular reason why it changed.

More like a minority of people were offended by evolution, so they have moved to denigrate it. The occurance of evolution is a fact. There are also theories about various aspects and mechanisms of evolution. The fact that very few people understand this indicates that science education in the country is poor, and certainly that stickers like this are adding to the problem.

it's the fact that they shouldn't strike all dissenting opinions about it out of the equation.

What scientific alternative should be included in science classes then?

John Taylor Gatto, the New York City teacher of the year several times and highly respected speaker and author in the field of education essentially believes that Darwin, who was an elite, created the the Theory of Evolution as justification to keep the lower classes down.

How embarassing for the NYC educational system.

But everyone ignores when that happens.

When?

Originally posted by djohnsto77
Actually if you were able to travel at the speed of light, that would disprove the theory of relativity. While I think it's not really a seperation of church/state issue I think the argument that a myriad of stickers demanded by different groups might start showing up on all textbooks may be valid, it's best to just understand this is science and science was never meant to prove or disprove religion.

could you please explain that one to me? thank you. especially since tachyons travel faster than the speed of light.

Originally posted by jprophet420

Originally posted by djohnsto77
Actually if you were able to travel at the speed of light, that would disprove the theory of relativity. While I think it's not really a seperation of church/state issue I think the argument that a myriad of stickers demanded by different groups might start showing up on all textbooks may be valid, it's best to just understand this is science and science was never meant to prove or disprove religion.

could you please explain that one to me? thank you. especially since tachyons travel faster than the speed of light.

From what I understand, according to the general theory of relativity your mass increases as your velocity approaches the speed of light. If you have any mass at all and travel at the speed of light, then your mass is infinite which is impossible because that would require an infinite amount of energy to get you to that velocity. So it basically takes more and more energy to speed you up as your velocity increases until you can go no faster at a point under the speed of light.

I don't know about tachyons, please post a link about that.

[edit on 1/13/2005 by djohnsto77]

There's a problem with Einstein's postulates and his special theory
of relativity, IMO. Time is not constant, and therefore neither is speed. Humans invented time. It's an Earthly unit of measurement, based entirely on our orbit around the sun. Other planets do not orbit the sun at the same speed or rate. Their "time" would be different. There's absolutely no reason to believe time is constant anywhere, but here on Earth, and that's only because we imagined it as constant. This doesn't mean that Einstein's theory should be thrown out, but it does mean that there is an error in the theory, or it only applies on Earth.

We use time to measure motion and we use motion to measure time.

But we shouldn't hijack this thread. This gets too deep.

[edit on 13-1-2005 by Damned]

What in the world?.... Evolution is a THEORY.

This has nothing to do with separation of church and state as some members already mentioned.

When non-biologists talk about biological evolution they often confuse two different aspects of the definition. On the one hand there is the question of whether or not modern organisms have evolved from older ancestral organisms or whether modern species are continuing to change over time. On the other hand there are questions about the mechanism of the observed changes... how did evolution occur?
Biologists consider the existence of biological evolution to be a fact. It can be demonstrated today and the historical evidence for its occurrence in the past is overwhelming. However, biologists readily admit that they are less certain of the exact mechanism of evolution; there are several theories of the mechanism of evolution.

If you want to get technical, there is no such thing as fact on this mysterious, complex planet. Everything is theory, right down to the things you perceive as reality.

Let me try to make crystal clear what is established beyond reasonable doubt, and what needs further study, about evolution. Evolution, as a process that has always gone on in the history of the earth, can be doubted only by those who are ignorant of the evidence or are resistant to evidence, owing to emotional blocks or to plain bigotry. By contrast, the mechanisms that bring evolution about certainly need study and clarification. There are no alternatives to evolution, as history that can withstand critical examination. Yet we are constantly learning new and important facts about evolutionary mechanisms.

Religion, on the other hand, has had no significant advancements, breakthroughs, or discoveries whatsoever, since the messiah was crucified. It is probably the only study known to man that suffers this lack of advancement.

[edit on 13-1-2005 by Damned]

If politics and religion mix, then politics and education are bound to.

Should the Bible be overstamped in Georgia Schools with a statement like "the greatest story ever told" or "the biggest selling book of all time"? Should it be taught as fiction or theory or fact; where does religious instruction fit in the same censorship regime?

Remember, the last time politics and religion were mixed, people were burned at the stake. It's only a matter of time, I guess.

Just for every christians info...
even the POPE has decided that the story of creation is based in hebrew and sumarin FABLES....
the christian timeline book, (also authorized by the pope) states that adam and eve most likely appeared as modern humans around 270,000 years ago...
Biblical scholors have been trying to rectify the creation myth with the theory of evolution for some time, because they see that they have to find a theory that is not mutually exclusive...
The reason they state is: that evolution, while being a theory, still has unargueable facts that have to be reconciled with the bible.

for those that forget... the old testiment is gathered by ancient hebrew scholars that drew upon many sumarian and babylonian fables to construct the "parables" that they wanted to teach. Fact is... these are storys to teach morals... just like mother goose.
I also say this as a christian, who believes that jesus died for my sins... I just don't hold words holy, just because they were written long ago... they have to hold to the spirit of the new testiment... it helps eliminate the many conflicting lessons, when you hold the truth as that which is the most connected with jesus. BTW... jesus never told a creation story... (as far as we know)

Thank GOD the children of Georgia can fianlly learn what God's real creation plan is: Evolution.

Children should get the chance to learn the theory of Creationism in Sunday School where it can be taught properly.

Thank god the children of Georgia have been properly brainwashed by their families, before they had enough sense to decide whether it was ridiculous or not. Most southern children believe in whatever their parents believe in, long before they even attend school. Religious parents make sure of it, in most cases. The kids literally have no choice in the matter.