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What is The one true Faith?

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posted on Jan, 19 2005 @ 06:00 AM
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Alec

I was meaning it dont make since because to you what i think obviously cant be expressed to your satisfaction although the definition you gave was restrictive when we both know there is more to it than what was listed, ever definition in existance isn't and nor will be listed in full in any dictionary , as the enourmous space required to list definitions in full on every word woukd require extream amounts of space anyone with common sense knows this that is why when you are in school you are not strickly taught out of the dictonary but through real life knowledge.


But I say number 5 does incompass athiesm exactly


athiesm is a principle that not religion or God/Gods exist and aithiest as noted in class action lawsuits trying to get religious beliefs out of public consumption points like schools, goverment bldgs, etc shows zeal and
devotion and the pursuit of a cause.

Therefore based on number 5 athiesm based on what has been seen in court rooms with class action suits with multiple persons claiming athiesm as thier belief structure , indicates the presence of a religious structure in the generalist of terms. Your own definition # 5 just reenforces that analysis.


I didnt mean to say that you yourself was athiest and if you are not I appoligize if it seemed as if I was making that point sorry you where offended. That was not my intention I tolerate all beliefs even those that deny what I charish most.


Not exploring a conundrumn is not my attempt to fail to investigate these religions, beliefs, or states of mind for me I love to hear new things , but when I find two persons of equal passion reach this impass it is best to say they should quit the arguements in respect of the views of the other.
I would not be tolerant if I argued something into the ground because I wish to enforce compliance to my understandings and thoughts. It's a graceful way of saying I respect your stance and I woul hope that fighting is not the way to solve anything, it's a respect I have for you personally.

[edit on 19/1/2005 by drbryankkruta]




posted on Jan, 19 2005 @ 06:30 AM
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Originally posted by Alec Eiffel
If atheism is a religion than I guess bald is a hair color.


Oh boy...I'm sorry...was that wrong to laugh? I thought it was a good analogy...



posted on Jan, 19 2005 @ 06:42 AM
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Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
The reason there are so many Christians...are militant, evangelical type religons who require converts, and both religons have conqured and coverted their herds by the sword.


"Arrgh! Avast! Where's me sword?!" Hold up here Evil_Elf. We're talking about Jesus, the biggest peacemaker of all time. A guy who walked around saying the only thing that's important is to love God and love everybody else. I could quote scripture but apparently that burns peoples ears here so I'll just say that Christianity doesn't "require" converts because it cannot 'make' anyone believe anything. If it were that easy, don't you think a government would've patented the process by now? Converting is between the individual and God.


Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
Christianity....bigger simply because they increase their numbers through preaching, conquest, enslavement, ect.


Oh yes, those who conquer because of religion. Not because of politics? Not because of land, wealth and power? How can a religion that preaches love, conquer enemies anyway? I'd throw away whatever history book you've been reading and head to the book store right away.


Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
Has little to do with "true faith"


I'll challenge that. Have you ever had "true faith"?



posted on Jan, 19 2005 @ 09:39 AM
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You are rather humorous so are you the newest God to join the ranks now , are you God, you speak as if to say you are?

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posted on Jan, 19 2005 @ 09:44 AM
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bgxiii


I like you your funny I always enjoy stuff like this cropping up and in fact search it out to make my day seem that much brighter, keep cool and stay light , your alright by me, peace



posted on Jan, 19 2005 @ 10:19 AM
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I only just noticed this: Christians (especially the born again variety) are nothing if not dilligent. So many thorough, well-researched posts in this thread (and in many others)! I wish I had that much free time...

I'm not being facetious, either, although it must be said that their arguments tend to be (always are?) circular, i.e. "the bible is true because the bible says this & that".

Often quick to take offense, too, so let me say that I have the utmost respect for their (and everyone else's) beliefs.

I read this somewhere once, and would like to attribute it but have lost the source: "We're BOTH atheists. I just believe in one less religion than you do."


Oh, I suppose I should mention my personal belief: God/Allah/creator/infinity/whatever is us.



posted on Jan, 19 2005 @ 11:18 AM
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Originally posted by Azeari of the Radiant Eye
I only just noticed this: Christians (especially the born again variety) are nothing if not dilligent.


Hehe, I just got blasted on www.abovetopsecret.com... for walking away from a thread
. So, am I to be bull-headed or a chicken? I'll take persistence as a compliment.



Originally posted by Azeari of the Radiant Eye
So many thorough, well-researched posts in this thread (and in many others)! I wish I had that much free time...

I'm not being facetious, either, although it must be said that their arguments tend to be (always are?) circular, i.e. "the bible is true because the bible says this & that".


Alright then, I'll stand up and represent why what the Bible says makes sense and not because 'The Bible says so'. Let's break the circle.


Originally posted by Azeari of the Radiant Eye
Often quick to take offense, too,


WHAT DO YOU MEAN?!! I'M OFFENDED BY THAT!!!



Originally posted by Azeari of the Radiant Eye
so let me say that I have the utmost respect for their (and everyone else's) beliefs.


Excellent, thanks. I try to do the same.



posted on Jan, 19 2005 @ 12:11 PM
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Religion exists because we are scared of the dark. We've been scared ever since we used to live in caves. It was there - watching the lightning and listening to the thunder, feeling small and powerless - our beliefs in a higher, almighty power took form and this belief has been with us ever since, only it has developed over time, become more sophisticated.

Btw, i feel really sorry for the cavemen and the rest of humanity who lived B.C as they have had no chance of becoming christians and therefore will burn in hell.



posted on Jan, 19 2005 @ 04:30 PM
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Saint, you've managed to do two things I've never seen a serious Christian accomplish: you made me laugh, and you didn't annoy me!


And I've done something new: given a Way Above to a Christian!

Long may you post, and I shall look forward to further discussions...



posted on Jan, 19 2005 @ 04:51 PM
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I have made it a point to investigate and understand differnt faiths in order to press upon myself a standard of understanding and tolerance. This is however something that I have not heard about nor have knowledge of. What can you say that would explain it so that this kid in the back of class who was talking during the lesson can learn the lesson and pass the test so to speak?


Would an internet definition suffice?

www.m-w.com...

1 a : a theory that knowledge is relative to the limited nature of the mind and the conditions of knowing b : a view that ethical truths depend on the individuals and groups holding them
2 : RELATIVITY


Deep



posted on Jan, 20 2005 @ 07:13 AM
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Originally posted by drbryankkruta
my response to this is there in your heart you have something telling you should I do this it doesn't feel right this is commonly referred to as a conscience, I prefer to think of it as hints from God and when I feel with out dought that I did my best and I dont regret my actions or feel hesitation that I have my answer, only you and God through these subtle communications can tell if you are right, not man nor religious structure, my guess is if you dought yourself you have realized a tugging at you and dought of your actions. Then search out another path and when it feels right you know you have it, but note you will never get to a point when you dont feel dought cause you are imperfect as I am and we are not expected nor created to be more than we are creatures of trial and error never reaching perfecting until it is bestowed apon us by God.


Errrr... Pretty sure that's what I've been saying all along, at least the latter part. And I have been, for upwards of 18 years now I've been searching my heart, soul, and the Earth, every day, refining my beliefs, and trying to find some measure of spiritual comfort. And to a degree, I have found it. However, I do not consider it complete. Not because of any sort of lingering conscience; for my conscience is as clear as a bell--the last evil act I performed was nearly a decade ago, and I have paid for it many times over.

Regardless of my conscience, I search because I do not believe that one should be stagnant. Reliance upon one religion, one book, one person, to tell you how to live a spiritual life, is indolence at its worst. If people took the same approach towards spirituality that they do towards their favorite hobby/interest, then there would be a lot more wisdom in the world, because they would never be satisfied with merely being a sheep.



Originally posted by drbryankkruta
Very good that mean you have the drive to meet the expextations God has of you, but realized you are imperfect and need God's help this is exactly what God expects, he want your love your faith and yes your calls for help he wants to be needed that's the whole point.


Perhaps. Perhaps God wants my love, my calls for help, and desires to be needed. Alternately, God may not care one way or the other. God may not even know that I exist! For anyone to claim certainty in this area is arrogantly claiming to know the mind of God. So why lead a spiritual life, honoring The Powers That Be? That is something everyone must answer for themselves. For me, leading a spiritual life brings me comfort, hope, and gives me the strength I need when I need it most.



Originally posted by drbryankkruta
you have a point but ask yourself do you think in your heart we exist because of God or by accident and then all the sudden GOD came about to dominate us, or even if you are alive by some act do you not belief some sort of parent had to be in order to concieve your creation.


All this and more I have asked myself many times over the last two decades, and will continue to ask myself for the rest of this life. I believe that there is a God. I believe that God has a Plan. Currently that is all I am certain of. I do not know if that plan is to our benefit, or if It created us, we created It, or we both came into being independantly.


Originally posted by drbryankkruta
Not at all transend in this context is to say the feelings for God you have transend or go beyond your primal instinct to cause harm in order to get what you want, you transend by taking the faith and love for God you have and following his laws, which tell you dont rely on those intincts to resolve issues rely on God and his word and go beyond that which you where created with the flaw of violence and hate.


Symantics aside, who is to say they truly know God's laws? We, as humans, attribute certain ideals we, on a societal level, hold to be "Divine Law", but does this actually make it so? I can say that there are laws to the trees, and place them above humanity as the ultimate concept of a spiritual life, as they coexist harmoniously with so many levels of the ecosystem. But does that truly make my ideas those of the trees'? How does a tree think? Does a tree think? God is such an alien entity; not in the flying saucer sense, but rather in the completely unknowable sense. How can finite beings like ourselves have the audacity to say that our limited concepts of the supreme being even come close to the truth? Because someone else told us that God told someone else to "write this down", hundreds of years ago? I cannot take fourth-hand 'knowledge', poorly translated and later cut, edited, revised for political agenda, and interpreted by someone else as anything approaching the real truth. I can hope to achieve some higher understanding of the world around me, and hope to one day be blessed enough to touch the mind of God, but one should not speak of God's Laws as if they actually know them.


Originally posted by drbryankkruta
I would say to you search those feelings that I told you about before do you feel as if when you do something right in your heart that comfort and warming sensation of praise and security from God. This is again only something your heart can answer , but let me ask you this if God didnt care then why where you given the instinct to realize right and wrong and love and hate,


Or perhaps it is because I know, in my heart, that I did what I felt to be the right thing to do. Good feelings, and a sense of right and wrong do not come exclusively from God. They include concepts to which we have been conditioned during our formative years, and personal experience of the consequences of our actions.


Originally posted by drbryankkruta
its because he cares if you love him back in return and he wishes to give you a way to feel even if through these primitive feelings of right and wrong that concience we all percieve and react from and the actions of concious decision to go with the feelings of Love and Faith despite others opinions, this is the love and caring he gave us it is simply free will with his guidence to show you how to interprete your choices as right or wrong, love or hate.


I'm not really sure what this last part meant. If I understand you correctly, then you appear to be saying that God tweaks our emotions and conscience to guide us through what is right and wrong. To this I would say it is possible, but not definite. Right and Wrong are not instinctual, they are learned systems of judgement (see my response to the first half of this paragraph). A baby is not born with the inherent sense that biting it's fellow infants, or stealing their toys, is wrong. They gain that knowledge through a combination of positive and negative reinforcement. This is why I believe that most people should not breed, as they have neither the knowledge, nor desire to properly train their offspring, and instead expect others, including God, to do it for them.



posted on Jan, 20 2005 @ 01:39 PM
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Originally posted by Azeari of the Radiant Eye
Saint, you've managed to do two things I've never seen a serious Christian accomplish: you made me laugh, and you didn't annoy me!


And I've done something new: given a Way Above to a Christian!

Long may you post, and I shall look forward to further discussions...


Wow Cool! Thank you very much



posted on Jan, 20 2005 @ 03:18 PM
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It's simple , the One True faith is ..."Blind Faith " because No one knows which faith is "true".. no matter how much you rant and rave ,no one can prove through history ( not HIStory) which is the real "so called" religion, so accept what you want to believe and just believe with all your heart or dont believe anything....



posted on Feb, 1 2005 @ 12:46 AM
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Originally posted by York Rite91
It's simple , the One True faith is ..."Blind Faith " because No one knows which faith is "true".. no matter how much you rant and rave ,no one can prove through history ( not HIStory) which is the real "so called" religion, so accept what you want to believe and just believe with all your heart or dont believe anything....





Very Good it's blind and personal noone can teach it approve of it or condemn it because it is not their faith on the line.



posted on Feb, 1 2005 @ 01:25 AM
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Originally posted by thelibra
Perhaps. Perhaps God wants my love, my calls for help, and desires to be needed. Alternately, God may not care one way or the other. God may not even know that I exist! For anyone to claim certainty in this area is arrogantly claiming to know the mind of God. So why lead a spiritual life, honoring The Powers That Be? That is something everyone must answer for themselves. For me, leading a spiritual life brings me comfort, hope, and gives me the strength I need when I need it most.


AAHHH besides the fact God has given to us from his mind some while flawed by interpretational errors of humans an outline of his intent , his knowledge, his love and his familiarity. He has told us of himself and his creation of us , while remaining some what distant so we strive to come to him this is the faith the test of love that I have been saying only you can feel in connection with God, however you stated one side of a coin it is arrogent to assume to know God's mind , but I say to you is it not more arrogant to say that which he has given you without tangible proof is false or non existant, God has prepared the way for a reason so we may know and choose they way and walk in it , by that I mean he told you their will be truths laid out and then the otherside will lay out false truths, he want you to decides which is the better turth for you. Be weary the well travelled road wide and comfortable for the narrow road leads you from damnation and rougher and lighter travelled is it.





All this and more I have asked myself many times over the last two decades, and will continue to ask myself for the rest of this life. I believe that there is a God. I believe that God has a Plan. Currently that is all I am certain of. I do not know if that plan is to our benefit, or if It created us, we created It, or we both came into being independantly.


AAAHH but the mystery is the road to the descovery of true, or blind faith, some think we should have been given a clear cut path , but where is the reward in things given and not won, The plan of God is cryptic for a reason you are given artistic license in the design of your future, now what picture are you going to paint with the materials given you by God, IE blind faith, conscience,love,compassion etc.







Symantics aside, who is to say they truly know God's laws? We, as humans, attribute certain ideals we, on a societal level, hold to be "Divine Law", but does this actually make it so? I can say that there are laws to the trees, and place them above humanity as the ultimate concept of a spiritual life, as they coexist harmoniously with so many levels of the ecosystem. But does that truly make my ideas those of the trees'? How does a tree think? Does a tree think? God is such an alien entity; not in the flying saucer sense, but rather in the completely unknowable sense. How can finite beings like ourselves have the audacity to say that our limited concepts of the supreme being even come close to the truth? Because someone else told us that God told someone else to "write this down", hundreds of years ago? I cannot take fourth-hand 'knowledge', poorly translated and later cut, edited, revised for political agenda, and interpreted by someone else as anything approaching the real truth. I can hope to achieve some higher understanding of the world around me, and hope to one day be blessed enough to touch the mind of God, but one should not speak of God's Laws as if they actually know them.




Simple explanation , when you are at risk of doing something you think to be wrong to you feel your heart race , your face flush, temp rise, etc. these are markers given us along with the basic laws of God as Given to us though the savior son and thru previous humans for whom visions where given , the law's are not complete but the markers are you just have to listen to your heart and soul.








Or perhaps it is because I know, in my heart, that I did what I felt to be the right thing to do. Good feelings, and a sense of right and wrong do not come exclusively from God. They include concepts to which we have been conditioned during our formative years, and personal experience of the consequences of our actions.


YES YES very good it;s personal , its the heart to heart connection with God noone can teach right or wrong, they can only give some of the rules of the game. Right and wrong cant be decided by any other than you and God through this unique connection.






I'm not really sure what this last part meant. If I understand you correctly, then you appear to be saying that God tweaks our emotions and conscience to guide us through what is right and wrong. To this I would say it is possible, but not definite. Right and Wrong are not instinctual, they are learned systems of judgement (see my response to the first half of this paragraph). A baby is not born with the inherent sense that biting it's fellow infants, or stealing their toys, is wrong. They gain that knowledge through a combination of positive and negative reinforcement. This is why I believe that most people should not breed, as they have neither the knowledge, nor desire to properly train their offspring, and instead expect others, including God, to do it for them.



You almost have it , but where you are missing what I am saying is God talks to your heart and lets you know by signals that you are or are not following the game plan, as for new babys they dont know right and wrong and hence they are exempt from judgement till the age of awakening the age when they can look at that candy bar in the store and know they cant have it till they pay for it and hince when they try taking it their body and heart and soul then place a marker feeling out and as soon as the child is able to understand what that feeling means they are then responsible for their furture.





[edit on 1/2/2005 by drbryankkruta]



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