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originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: Freija
Thank you for being level headed in this discussion.
originally posted by: wanderlustqueen
i'm a female, and have always been attracted to males. i was also always a tomboy...
sometimes i felt like it would just be much easier to be a boy. some nights before bed i'd close my eyes and wish over and over again that i could wake up as a male. of course that didn't happen. also, i didn't talk about this to anyone because i felt like i would be made fun of, or that i would be thought of as weird. in fact, i think this is the first time i've ever said anything about this, and i'm 32 years old.
and as for the 4 year old example...? yeah, naah. no surgery.
if you asked me what i wanted to be at 4, i'd say a wolf, and would have happily received a surgical treatment for a tail, ears, and pointier canines.
if you asked me what i wanted to be at 4, i'd say a wolf, and would have happily received a surgical treatment for a tail, ears, and pointier canines.
originally posted by: luthier
Not to be a jerk but we have no idea what gender dysphoria is yet. Neuroscience will weigh in with what parts of the brain may be involved shortly but I don't think we understand that it isn't an an extreme version of what Queen is talking about. The prefrontal cortex development is complex.
Like I keep saying the experts say 70-85 percent of children revert back to their birth sex. We both liked that article.
To accurately look at science you have to leave out emotion. I don't think Queen was being insensitive. Just offering a hypothesis.
originally posted by: jacygirl
The people who are 'identifying' with being an animal aren't going to help the transgender population at all.
Transgender people, on the other hand...would probably (mostly) prefer to transition and live life without the intrusive attention.
jacy
originally posted by: luthier
I think you are very close to the subject so it may cause you to emotionally address the situation.
Those numbers 75-80 percent are from a link you provided by the endocrinologists. You can't on one hand use them as a reference for safety of blockers and then say they don't know what they are talking about.
The blockers issue I am referring to is your potentially postponing the actual mechanism that would allow the gender dysphoria to revert to the natural birth sex.
The pre frontal cortex issues I am talking about are the development of the brain in youth. Has nothing to do with the blockers. Some children have issues with this development. It can cause all kinds of effects. Not to mention they have very poor judgment because of the lack of its development naturally.
Trans people should certainly care about research that has to do with physical science as well as psychology. Thats the only way to get a full understanding.
It's like if you smash your finger with a hammer, you know it hurts but how that signal travels up your arm, through your spine and what it does when it hits your grey matter is of little consequence. The mechanics of how the pain in your finger is registered is irrelevant to the fact that your damn finger hurts.
What happens to trans people if they can't get hormones? What happens if we end up in a situation where supply chains are interrupted? This is why the neuroscience aspect is so important. You don't want to only treat the emotions of a person and ignore the physiological basis for treatment. That happens all the time in psychology.
I have been a trans advocate for a child as I said before.
I just don't think rushing to conclusions on a subject not understood is a good move. If you read closely you will see it's not well understood. You have to look at the vernacular in the studies. I have never read definitive language on this subject. Guidelines are not definitive. They are what we currently understand.
originally posted by: luthier
When those numbers go bye bye and they are done so in a scientific manner I have no problem accepting that.
Within its clinical practice guidelines for the treatment of transsexual persons, the Endocrine Society suggests that for most children with GID, the condition will not persist into adolescence. Acknowledging that percentages differ between studies, the society maintains that "the large majority (75-80%) of prepubertal children with a diagnosis of GID in childhood do not turn out to be transsexual in adolescence."
As far as turning back to the original gender not necessarily. I think they will have serious health problems. Osteoporosis, strokes, etc.
Bob Dylan quotes are not science.
As far as my background I have a philosophy degree and sound engineering degree. My brother is a particle physicist and my wife is a research scientist. I don't have a medical degree. Do you?
My point to mention I fought for a trans child to be able to wrestle boys in high school was to say I am not coming at this as a bigot.
I just don't think expirementing with an unknown possible neurological condition unless absolutely certainty should not become standard practice. Yes extreme cases and cases where parents and drs have Thoroughly studied the situation probably makes sense.