Boeing 737 from Dubai crashes in southern Russia

originally posted by: carewemust
a reply to: Zaphod58


OK...I think I understand. No matter how much weight is at the back of the plane, the nose will drop after the stall point. The physics of it is over my head, but I understand what you said.

Transport category aircraft are generally balanced so that they go nose down in a stall.
This happens because the wing no longer produce enough lift, and the horisontal stabilizer does not produce sufficient downforce to keep the nose up.

That B747 in Afghanistan crashed because the MRAP took out elevator control, and the elevator got stuck in a nose up attitude during rotation, not due to too much weight in the back of the plane.

a reply to: Ivar_Karlsen

Even without the damage to the hydraulic systems, at that altitude, the odds are that they wouldn't have been able to recover, if they had elevator control.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Ivar_Karlsen

Even without the damage to the hydraulic systems, at that altitude, the odds are that they wouldn't have been able to recover, if they had elevator control.

That's true.
Recovery from a full stall takes at least a couple of thousand feet.

originally posted by: carewemust
a reply to: Zaphod58


OK...I think I understand. No matter how much weight is at the back of the plane, the nose will drop after the stall point. The physics of it is over my head, but I understand what you said. Thanks for the illustrations, too. They always help!

it is possible that if alot of the weight is at the back that there might not be enough force to use the elevators to bring the nose down at near stall speeds.

but if weight doesnt move, in general aircraft would be loaded in a way to make sure centre of gravity is infront of centre of lift, or it wont even make it to the runway.

during a stall though i believe the aircraft wings are designed to stall near the fuselage first while the wing tips are still fine.

originally posted by: Ivar_Karlsen

originally posted by: carewemust
a reply to: Zaphod58

OK...I think I understand. No matter how much weight is at the back of the plane, the nose will drop after the stall point. The physics of it is over my head, but I understand what you said.

Transport category aircraft are generally balanced so that they go nose down in a stall.
This happens because the wing no longer produce enough lift, and the horisontal stabilizer does not produce sufficient downforce to keep the nose up.

Alleged: New video shows flydubai plane falling from the sky

A fresh video claiming to be of the ill-fated flydubai aircraft crashing into the ground has emerged online. The video -- a CCTV camera recording -- shows the plane emerging from the clouds and diving straight towards the crowd. The authenticity of the video has not been ascertained yet.

a reply to: Hex1an

update

www.dailymail.co.uk...

the latest....the captain had resigned because of unbearable schedule. there was an internal poll, 80% fellow pilots thought it was just a matter of time before a crash...pilots exhausted , doing mutiple flights in a row

a reply to: research100

I have a friend who is a pilot. He is over worked and under paid. He is always tired. Sad airlines make all the profit and cannot hire more people.

a reply to: Quantum12

in the link I posted above, someone looked up the records, he worked 11 days straight with one day off...that is not good at all

originally posted by: research100
a reply to: Quantum12

in the link I posted above, someone looked up the records, he worked 11 days straight with one day off...that is not good at all

and probably illegal.

a reply to: choos

Technically no. It depends on the rules set forth by the Dubai regulators. The ICAO doesn't set hours as far as how many hours you can fly in a week, month, or year, they leave that up to the individual State to determine. So he easily could work 11 days, with one off, and still meet the mandatory rest period set forth by Dubai.

The UAE uses similar regulations as the UK.

Pilots must take two consecutive days of rest every 14 days, and one day off after seven working days. The aviation industry classes a working day as 36 hours free of duty – to allow adequate sleep either side of time behind the controls – including two local nights off.

www.thenational.ae...

So it wasn't illegal. He still had three more days he could have worked before taking the required two days off.

originally posted by: Zaphod58

Pilots must take two consecutive days of rest every 14 days, and one day off after seven working days. The aviation industry classes a working day as 36 hours free of duty – to allow adequate sleep either side of time behind the controls – including two local nights off.

www.thenational.ae...

So it wasn't illegal. He still had three more days he could have worked before taking the required two days off.

the dailymail link says he worked 11 days straight by looking at his flight log, could be wrong.

and here it says after seven working days one day off is required. wouldnt that put him 4 days over restrictions?

originally posted by: research100
a reply to: Hex1an

update

www.dailymail.co.uk...

the latest....the captain had resigned because of unbearable schedule. there was an internal poll, 80% fellow pilots thought it was just a matter of time before a crash...pilots exhausted , doing mutiple flights in a row

I wonder if he was frustrated with not being able to land?
Someone under so much alleged stress may have had a stupid moment in an act of anger... Then it was too late to recover.
Although the cockpit voice recorder hasn't been released yet I does seem that: RT and some other news sources are prepping us for this tragic outcome.

a reply to: choos

According to his schedule he was off for two days on the 8-9th. He worked from the 10th to the 14th, and was off the 15th, then worked the 16th to the 20th, and was scheduled to be off the 21st and 22nd. One day off in seven days.

a reply to: Zaphod58

that makes it cleaner, guess dailymail reporting is off.

As they began climbing the autopilot was disconnected just before the aircraft nosed over. One pilot was heard saying, "Don't worry, pull", and passengers could be heard in the cabin.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
As they began climbing the autopilot was disconnected just before the aircraft nosed over. One pilot was heard saying, "Don't worry, pull", and passengers could be heard in the cabin.

As they began climbing for the go-around? I'm wondering if the reason the pilot said "don't worry, pull" was because they were getting stall warnings? Maybe they had a high AOA and then a sudden wind shift?

a reply to: Zaphod58

Holy sh#t .......they are less strict with pilot schedules then they are with truckdrivers..here in the states truckdrivers have to have a mandatory 34hr break after every 70 hrs ( within an 8 day period ) of on duty time... and a mandatory 10 hr break after every 14 hrs of on duty time.

I guess there is more money to be made restricting truckdrivers ....then there is restricting pilots.

a reply to: HarryJoy

Except that we aren't required to take a break after that 70 hours. We can't drive over 70 in 8 days, but on the 8th day we can drive again because we get hours back. They're required to have those days off.

The pilots were heard saying, "Don't do that", followed by "Don't worry". It appears that a trim tab may have been set to full nose down, which would have made the aircraft fight them when they tried to pull up.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Great info, Zaphod58. So it is like two forces fighting each other one pulling up and one pulling down? A lose lose fight. Sad!