The First Ressurection

Are you calling me a demon? Seriously?

a reply to: Josephus

Join the club bro...

Everyone outside his belief system qualifies...

a reply to: Akragon

I mean I don't agree with many things of the JW church espouses but I was kind of just going with the "let us reason together" idea, not bringing any of that up and trying to have a conversation about end times doctrine. Oh well, I guess.

originally posted by: Josephus
a reply to: Akragon

I mean I don't agree with many things of the JW church espouses but I was kind of just going with the "let us reason together" idea, not bringing any of that up and trying to have a conversation about end times doctrine. Oh well, I guess.

Yet you don't realize that fundamental Christianity doesn't work like that...

Let us reason together, is a logical, rational stance...

This does not vibe with people that have a definitive story line in their head... its fixed, unmovable...

And IF you deviate, you are the "adversary"... as you can see above...

We're both demons...

Dude, no one owes you sh!t. This sounds like wishful thinking for a brown noser looking to toss salad his way into heaven with the other 143,999 star kissers. And with your attitude, you'd be lucky to have friends here in the real world let alone think you could ever make heavens VIP list. There's no love in your words man, only fear and weakness.... this is a sign of someone who truly has not found God yet, sorry buddy.

originally posted by: JackReyes
a reply to: JackReyes

Will at least one person acknowledge this?

Why would human OR demon acknowledge a church full of false prophets? I believe your own scriptures have much to say about those who prophesy falsely. And the Jehovah's Witnesses are number 1 on the list for failed prophecies, from 1897 to 1968. What are you at now? Over a dozen failed prophecies?

Oh! This looks like fun. May I play too? I've been called a demon, I've also been named Satan. Does prior experience count?

originally posted by: dondrews
Oh! This looks like fun. May I play too? I've been called a demon, I've also been named Satan. Does prior experience count?

Pleased to meet you lol.

a reply to: JackReyes

Hey, this is some really interesting stuff! You've got a keen eye for scripture, and an analytical mind well-equipped for picking through the verses. I really think you'd get a lot out of this analysis of scripture as well. There's some really great truths being revealed there. The kinds of things demon possessed people can't bear to read because it challenges their comfortable, but ultimately false, worldview.


~ Wandering Scribe

originally posted by: Akragon
Sure i'll bite...

I have issues taking anything related to "the watchtower" seriously...

Why do you people focus so much on revelation and "end times"?

each generation has thought they were in "the end times"...nothing new.....fear is motivation for religion, they've use it constantly for two thousand years....

originally posted by: Wandering Scribe
a reply to: JackReyes

Hey, this is some really interesting stuff! You've got a keen eye for scripture, and an analytical mind well-equipped for picking through the verses. I really think you'd get a lot out of this analysis of scripture as well. There's some really great truths being revealed there. The kinds of things demon possessed people can't bear to read because it challenges their comfortable, but ultimately false, worldview.


~ Wandering Scribe

great truths????.....from mythical words, told by mythical beings.....got it.

(Revelation 10:6-7) . . .“There will be no delay any longer; 7 but in the days of the sounding of the seventh angel, when he is about to blow his trumpet, the sacred secret of God according to the good news which he declared to his own slaves the prophets is indeed brought to a finish.”


(2 Peter 3:9-10) . . .Jehovah is not slow respecting his promise, as some people consider slowness, but he is patient with YOU because he does not desire any to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance. 10 Yet Jehovah’s day will come as a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a hissing noise, but the elements being intensely hot will be dissolved, and earth and the works in it will be discovered.

(Revelation 7:1-4) . . .After this I saw four angels standing upon the four corners of the earth, holding tight the four winds of the earth, that no wind might blow upon the earth or upon the sea or upon any tree. 2 And I saw another angel ascending from the sunrising, having a seal of [the] living God; and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels to whom it was granted to harm the earth and the sea, 3 saying: “Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees, until after we have sealed the slaves of our God in their foreheads.” 4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed, a hundred and forty-four thousand. . .

(Ephesians 3:3-9) that by way of a revelation the sacred secret was made known to me, just as I wrote previously in brief. 4 In the face of this YOU, when YOU read this, can realize the comprehension I have in the sacred secret of the Christ. 5 In other generations this [secret] was not made known to the sons of men as it has now been revealed to his holy apostles and prophets by spirit, 6 namely, that people of the nations should be joint heirs and fellow members of the body and partakers with us of the promise in union with Christ Jesus through the good news. 7 I became a minister of this according to the free gift of the undeserved kindness of God that was given me according to the way his power operates. 8 To me, a man less than the least of all holy ones, this undeserved kindness was given, that I should declare to the nations the good news about the unfathomable riches of the Christ 9 and should make men see how the sacred secret is administered which has from the indefinite past been hidden in God, who created all things.


(Revelation 10:4) . . .Now when the seven thunders spoke, I was at the point of writing; but I heard a voice out of heaven say: “Seal up the things the seven thunders spoke, and do not write them down.”


(2 Corinthians 12:2-4) . . .I know a man in union with Christ who, fourteen years ago—whether in the body I do not know, or out of the body I do not know; God knows—was caught away as such to the third heaven. 3 Yes, I know such a man—whether in the body or apart from the body, I do not know, God knows— 4 that he was caught away into paradise and heard unutterable words which it is not lawful for a man to speak.




(Revelation 11:13) And in that hour a great earthquake occurred, and a tenth of the city fell; and seven thousand persons were killed by the earthquake, and the rest became frightened and gave glory to the God of heaven.



(Romans 11:1-5) . . .I ask, then, God did not reject his people, did he? Never may that happen! For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God did not reject his people, whom he first recognized. Why, do YOU not know what the Scripture says in connection with E·li′jah, as he pleads with God against Israel? 3 “Jehovah, they have killed your prophets, they have dug up your altars, and I alone am left, and they are looking for my soul.” 4 Yet, what does the divine pronouncement say to him? “I have left seven thousand men over for myself, [men] who have not bent the knee to Ba′al.” 5 In this way, therefore, at the present season also a remnant has turned up according to a choosing due to undeserved kindness.

(Revelation 11:8) . . .And their corpses will be on the broad way of the great city which is in a spiritual sense called Sod′om and Egypt, where their Lord was also impaled.

*** re chap. 25 pp. 168-169 par. 22 Reviving the Two Witnesses ***
Hence, this great city pictures a defiled “Jerusalem” that claims to worship God but that has become unclean and sinful, like Sodom, and a part of this satanic world system of things, like Egypt. It pictures Christendom, the modern equivalent of unfaithful Jerusalem, the organization whose members had so much reason to rejoice when they silenced the disturbing preaching of the two witnesses.


(Romans 9:11-12) . . .for when they had not yet been born nor had practiced anything good or vile, in order that the purpose of God respecting the choosing might continue dependent, not upon works, but upon the One who calls, 12 it was said to her: “The older will be the slave of the younger.”


(2 Corinthians 13:1) . . .“At the mouth of two witnesses or of three every matter must be established.”


(1 Kings 19:18) . . .And I have let seven thousand remain in Israel, all the knees that have not bent down to Ba′al, and every mouth that has not kissed him.”


(Romans 9:15-16) . . .For he says to Moses: “I will have mercy upon whomever I do have mercy, and I will show compassion to whomever I do show compassion.” 16 So, then, it depends, not upon the one wishing nor upon the one running, but upon God, who has mercy.

Parallel Bible translations taken from the website: bible.cc...

(Daniel 11:35) . . .And some of those having insight will be made to stumble, in order to do a refining work because of them and to do a cleansing and to do a whitening, until the time of [the] end; because it is yet for the time appointed.


Daniel 11:35
New Living Translation (©2007)
And some of the wise will fall victim to persecution. In this way, they will be refined and cleansed and made pure until the time of the end, for the appointed time is still to come.

(Psalm 21:9) . . .You will constitute them as a fiery furnace at the appointed time for your attention.. . .

(Daniel 8:17) . . .“Understand, O son of man, that the vision is for the time of [the] end.”

(Daniel 8:19) . . .: “Here I am causing you to know what will occur in the final part of the denunciation, because it is for the appointed time of [the] end.


(Habakkuk 2:3) . . .For [the] vision is yet for the appointed time, and it keeps panting on to the end, and it will not tell a lie. Even if it should delay, keep in expectation of it; for it will without fail come true. It will not be late.

(Matthew 8:29) . . .And, look! they screamed, saying: “What have we to do with you, Son of God? Did you come here to torment us before the appointed time?”

(Mark 13:32-33) 32 “Concerning that day or the hour nobody knows, neither the angels in heaven nor the Son, but the Father. 33 Keep looking, keep awake, for YOU do not know when the appointed time is.


(Revelation 1:3) . . .Happy is he who reads aloud and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and who observe the things written in it; for the appointed time is near.



(Daniel 8:23-24) . . .“And in the final part of their kingdom, as the transgressors act to a completion, there will stand up a king fierce in countenance and understanding ambiguous sayings. 24 And his power must become mighty, but not by his own power. And in a wonderful way he will cause ruin, and he will certainly prove successful and do effectively. And he will actually bring mighty ones to ruin, also the people made up of [the] holy ones.


In the final part of the kings of the last days one will stand up that will be fierce and understanding ambiguous sayings. As the references below show this will be a king that will be “stern-faced, a master of intrigue,” “a “king who understands mysterious things.” This is no ordinary ruler. This ruler who rises up within the realm of the Anglo-American duel world power will receive great strength. And it will not be by his own doing: “And his power must become mighty, but not by his own power.” The dragon, Satan himself, gives this king his power, and imbues him with unordinary understanding. And like his master Satan, this ruler will be the ultimate master at intrigue, trickery, and deception. What devious plans does this king have in mind for God’s people? He will bring to ruin “mighty ones…also the people made up of the holy ones.” Yes he will act effectively against Jehovah’s named people, and against His anointed (the holy ones) who are left on earth.

Daniel 8:23
New International Version (©1984)
"In the latter part of their reign, when rebels have become completely wicked, a stern-faced king, a master of intrigue, will arise.
GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
"In the last days of those kingdoms, when rebellions are finished, a stern-looking king who understands mysterious things will rise to power.

Reference:
(Revelation 13:5-7) . . .And a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies was given it, and authority to act forty-two months was given it. 6 And it opened its mouth in blasphemies against God, to blaspheme his name and his residence, even those residing in heaven. 7 And there was granted it to wage war with the holy ones and conquer them, and authority was given it over every tribe and people and tongue and nation.



(Daniel 8:25) . . .And according to his insight he will also certainly cause deception to succeed in his hand. And in his heart he will put on great airs, and during a freedom from care he will bring many to ruin. And against the Prince of princes he will stand up, but it will be without hand that he will be broken.

In the final part of the kingdoms of the last days, when this ruler takes his stand, imbued with knowledge from Satan himself, who does he seek to stand against? Yes Jehovah’s established kingdom. This earthly king will have “insight,” no doubt demonically inspired. Satan has put him where he is and he reflects his father’s attitude of arrogance and defiance of Jehovah God. This king becomes haughty in his own heart because of his wisdom and understanding. He considers “himself superior” to other people, and will “make himself great” (as the versions below state). By means of his trickery he will, when there is a “freedom from care,” “bring many to ruin.” The New International Version states that when the people “feel secure, he will destroy many.” The Bible in Basic English translates this as: “Send destruction on numbers who are living unconscious of their danger.”

Concerning this king referred to in this scripture Insight on the Scriptures says:

*** it-2 p. 1103 Time of the End ***
Another feature associated with “the time of the end” is the standing up of “a king fierce in countenance” that would range himself against “the Prince of princes,” finally to be broken or destroyed. This “king” was to stand up in the final part of the kingdoms that sprang from the four parts into which the Grecian Empire was to be divided. (Da 8:8-25) Since “the king of the north” and “the king of the south” came from the same source, it logically follows that the “king fierce in countenance” corresponds to one of these ‘kings’ in his “time of the end.”



Daniel 8:25
New International Version (©1984)
He will cause deceit to prosper, and he will consider himself superior. When they feel secure, he will destroy many and take his stand against the Prince of princes. Yet he will be destroyed, but not by human power.


Bible in Basic English
And his designs will be turned against the holy people, causing deceit to do well in his hand; in his heart he will make himself great, and send destruction on numbers who are living unconscious of their danger; and he will put himself up against the prince of princes; but he will be broken, though not by men's hands.

Reference:
(1 Thessalonians 5:3) 3 Whenever it is that they are saying: “Peace and security!” then sudden destruction is to be instantly upon them just as the pang of distress upon a pregnant woman; and they will by no means escape.


It is of note that the angel tells us that this king will take his place “as the transgressors act to a completion.” Who are the transgressors? Here is the quote of the two versions of Daniel 8:23 quoted earlier:

New International Version (©1984)
"In the latter part of their reign, when rebels have become completely wicked, a stern-faced king, a master of intrigue, will arise.

Many of the other versions translate this word as “transgressors” as well, but these two use the words “rebels” and “rebellions”. We are deep in the time of the end and what is now happening on the world scene in country after country in the Middle East? Rebels are standing up against the

cont...

Rebels are standing up against the constituted powers put in their respective places by Jehovah God. These rebellions are really an act of transgression against Jehovah himself, for no authority on earth exists if God has not allowed it. If this is correct understanding of who these “rebels” or “rebellions” are, it appears that at the height, or at the completion of the rebellions a period of what may appear to be “peace” or a freedom from care” grabs hold of human society. They are “unconscious” of the sudden destruction that now awaits them. Is this what Paul was referring to in his statement to the Thessalonians at 1 Thessalonians 5:3?

After he [the king] “brings many to ruin” he will stand up against God himself. Against the “Prince of princes” but he will be destroyed, and not by human hands. This can no doubt refer to the all-out final ditch attack on God’s people alive on earth. Here are a couple of references for this as well:

(Daniel 2:34) . . .You kept on looking until a stone was cut out not by hands, and it struck the image on its feet of iron and of molded clay and crushed them.

(Revelation 19:20) . . .And the wild beast was caught, and along with it the false prophet that performed in front of it the signs with which he misled those who received the mark of the wild beast and those who render worship to its image. While still alive, they both were hurled into the fiery lake that burns with sulphur.


Before explaining exactly what the beasts in the Daniel 8 prophecy meant, the angel told Gabriel to reveal to Daniel what the vision meant and Gabriel revealed to Daniel:

(Daniel 8:17, 19) . . .“Understand, O son of man, that the vision is for the time of [the] end.”… And he went on to say: “Here I am causing you to know what will occur in the final part of the denunciation, because it is for the appointed time of [the] end.

The Daniel’s Prophecy book says this in regard to this vision:

*** dp chap. 10 p. 171 par. 15 Who Can Stand Against the Prince of Princes? ***
“You, for your part, keep secret the vision,” the angel tells Daniel, “because it is yet for many days.” (Daniel 8:26) The fulfillment of this part of the vision was not to occur for “many days,” and Daniel was to “keep secret the vision.”


The revelation of what was to happen at the end of the denunciation to Daniel by means of the prophetic word was to be sealed up until the time of the end when the one’s having insight will rove about and the true knowledge would become abundant. – Daniel 12:4. This also reminds us of the seven thunders that were spoken to John. He was told that was revealed to him in those words concerning the completion of the sacred secret by God should not be written down:

(Revelation 10:4) . . .Now when the seven thunders spoke, I was at the point of writing; but I heard a voice out of heaven say: “Seal up the things the seven thunders spoke, and do not write them down.”

originally posted by: JackReyes

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: JackReyes

Except you actually did...

somehow you just don't realize it...


Actually it matters quits a bit. And where does your authority come from to judge others as demons. You have no idea the condition of sonesones heart. Furthermore the OP didnt prove anything other than list off scriptures used time and again for placing fear that the end is near. I'm sorry to inform you but JWs have been predicting the end now for almost 120 years. Guess what there will not be a second coming or rapture. The bible is not meant to be taken literally. It is spiritual truth hidden in parables and myths.
Oh... by the way, im not Satan... just a demon...

Remember?

It doens't really matter sir. Does it?

originally posted by: Joecanada11

originally posted by: JackReyes

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: JackReyes

Except you actually did...

somehow you just don't realize it...


Actually it matters quits a bit. And where does your authority come from to judge others as demons. You have no idea the condition of sonesones heart. Furthermore the OP didnt prove anything other than list off scriptures used time and again for placing fear that the end is near. I'm sorry to inform you but JWs have been predicting the end now for almost 120 years. Guess what there will not be a second coming or rapture. The bible is not meant to be taken literally. It is spiritual truth hidden in parables and myths.
Oh... by the way, im not Satan... just a demon...

Remember?

It doens't really matter sir. Does it?

An interesting comment. And it seems to come from someone who really doesn't understand what it all means. I respect that. And understand why a brain would think that way. But, such a conclusion does not take everything into account, if you don't mind my making mention of the fact.

originally posted by: Klassified

originally posted by: JackReyes
a reply to: JackReyes

Will at least one person acknowledge this?

Why would human OR demon acknowledge a church full of false prophets? I believe your own scriptures have much to say about those who prophesy falsely. And the Jehovah's Witnesses are number 1 on the list for failed prophecies, from 1897 to 1968. What are you at now? Over a dozen failed prophecies?

So True:

a reply to: infolurker

No answers to the OP. Just as everyone else.

Why?

No answers to the OP. Just as everyone else.

Why?

You are like a scarecrow asking why no birds flock around me! Perhaps if you tried spreading Gods love instead of satans fear, you'd get a better response.