Deuteronomy 32:8 Yahweh a Son of God (The Most High)

originally posted by: Sassanid
a reply to: chr0naut

Do you always lie about conversations about Zoroastrianism that never took place between us? I know quite a bit about the subject, but have never discussed it with you.

You are busted. Lying is not a teaching Jesus endorsed. You are nothing but a fundamental Christian with a grudge against knowledge and anyone who exposes the lies of Christianity. You HATE anyone and anything that shows your beliefs to be incorrect and have proven your willingness to lie to protect your other lies.

I have never discussed Zoroastrianism with you, so making up stories isn't something I am going to not notice and address.

You are bitter because I am more educated and you have no problem inventing conversations to slander me because I am spreading knowledge that you don't have. Or choose to ignore.

You have lied once that I know of, and will keep lying because that's what liars do.

But you have already accused me of lying at least twice before. Are you retracting those accusations?

Anyway, here's the link to the relevant post: www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: Sassanid

The majority of Jews don't take the Zohar seriously. You are cofusing Orthodox Jews, which have their roots in the 19th century, for all Jews. It's actually quite anti semitic of you. For you to think they do shows YOU lack knowledge of Judaism.

Source

It was accepted as Authentic at the time it was discovered and it's writings indeed had an affect on Judaism, however eventually it's authenticity was rejected:

Rejection of Authenticity

if the Zohar was the work of Simeon ben Yohai, it would have been mentioned by the Talmud, as has been the case with other works of the Talmudic period...

In the mid 20th century, the Jewish historian Gershom Scholem contended that de Leon himself was the most likely author of the Zohar. Among other things, Scholem noticed the Zohar's frequent errors in Aramaic grammar, its suspicious traces of Spanish words and sentence patterns, and its lack of knowledge of the land of Israel. This finding is still disputed by many Orthodox Jews. Other Jewish scholars have also suggested the possibility that the Zohar was written by a group of people, including de Leon. This theory generally presents de Leon as having been the leader of a mystical school, whose collective effort resulted in the Zohar.

The idea of it being a forgery was rejected by Orthodox Jews because they needed it to be accurate to allow for their belief that the Torah was not a divinely inspired book. Progressive Jews realize the mistake and dismiss the Zohar as nothing more than a good book written by a devout Jew.

originally posted by: ParasuvO

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Sassanid
a reply to: OccamsRazor04
Yes birthright is passed from parent to child. Your attempted insult proved my point. Thank you.

So you are saying that El is dead?

Inheritances and birthrights become active on the death of the parent.

Ahh, the first bright light from you.

You KNOW El is dead, everyone does, deep down.

And all that it represented, in fact was dead long before humans even took this form...

This is why so much effort is put into trying to recreate the feeling, but it is empty, and gone forever.

Something feeds off of the energies directed towards it though, and thanks you for your blindness.

ParsuvO, the Holy Spirit reveals itself to me. I believe it to have a feminine aspect but that is an attempt on my part to put human traits on something not human but divine.

Along with the internal guidance (knowing right from wrong in ambiguous situations), the ability to speak in other languages that I have never learned (and confirmed by those who speak in those languages), the occasional knowledge that I could not have known otherwise, what us Christians call the anointing (where the Holy Spirit fills you and overcomes you) and the way truths in scripture are often pointed out before I even go to, and read, the section. I also have several times observed the miraculous as answer to prayer.

Apart from a non-specific denigration of those who have a faith and are exploring it, you have not actually added much to the topic of this thread.

a reply to: raymundoko

It makes absolutely no difference to any point that I made whether or not certain Jews accept the Zohar, I don't consider you an authority on Jewish teachings anyway.

I already took the Zohar out of the equation and got the same results. Your going off topic because you were wrong so many times it's a last ditch effort to save face by talking about the Zohar. I already told you I only referenced it FOR LANGUAGE PURPOSES and it doesn't change the tower of Babel story in the bible that uses ha-shem as a term for a generic god.

I've already explained this, quit complaining about the Zohar, I don't want to discuss the Zohar because it is irrelevant to the facts IN THE BIBLE. I only learned from it that ha-shem means god not name in the Tanakh, as in "make a god for ourselves." Which is what the Tanakh says. Other than that the Zohar has nothing to do with anything. You are just trying to derail the thread now, so our communications have ceased to exist. Good day.

a reply to: chr0naut


Dude, you made up a phony conversation about Zoroastrianism. Enough said.

This is gross. A person makes a extreme logic jump from a single open ended paragraph. A jump that completely changes the tone of the entire message. Then is attacked by students of the word. So he then he claims he is indeed guided by god, not by the words of god written by man.

Following all this, the students then use the authority of previous scholars to mock and be little, the overly arrogant attempt of claiming discerning authority. I think the book with its mastery of ancient philosophy, has failed to greatly influence its most modern readers.

The readers here should try and understand the under lying indifference here. The main point of it being, that Sassanid does not think that the main god, could not have seemingly negative qualities like he has read of Yahweh. So he is trying hard to find evidence that Yahwey is a demon and that a being of "his perfect" love must have came first.... His need for El.

The matter being discussed here should be, why does our god not always match what we deem as perfect? Not, I'm smarter says I. You are a blasphemer and will be damned.... well oh yeah what book, who's authority... Authority! The mods that be will 404 this blatant ignorance. Troll. shill. madman. moron..... Yes, I read to many pages.

originally posted by: blindprometheus
This is gross. A person makes a extreme logic jump from a single open ended paragraph. A jump that completely changes the tone of the entire message. Then is attacked by students of the word. So he then he claims he is indeed guided by god, not by the words of god written by man.

Following all this, the students then use the authority of previous scholars to mock and be little, the overly arrogant attempt of claiming discerning authority. I think the book with its mastery of ancient philosophy, has failed to greatly influence its most modern readers.

The readers here should try and understand the under lying indifference here. The main point of it being, that Sassanid does not think that the main god, could not have seemingly negative qualities like he has read of Yahweh. So he is trying hard to find evidence that Yahwey is a demon and that a being of "his perfect" love must have came first.... His need for El.

The matter being discussed here should be, why does our god not always match what we deem as perfect? Not, I'm smarter says I. You are a blasphemer and will be damned.... well oh yeah what book, who's authority... Authority! The mods that be will 404 this blatant ignorance. Troll. shill. madman. moron..... Yes, I read to many pages.

You sure are a blind Prometheus. My point is that Yahweh and El are different entities which is a fact. All your words are are slanderous accusations to attempt and discredit me because of your moronic half-wit observations trying to guess my intention your a joke. Your the troll, I am vehemently defending the truth you are being a complete ass. Flee Satan!!!

originally posted by: Sassanid
a reply to: chr0naut


Dude, you made up a phony conversation about Zoroastrianism. Enough said.

How did I do that? Are you aware that there is a date & time that indicates when it was posted?

a reply to: chr0naut

Parasuvo has added some good comments if my memory serves me correct.

I'm shocked you and I both see the Holy Spirit as female, that is shocking as I usually disagree with everything you say.

Why y you can't admit that the ancient Canaanites and Israelites did not equate El with Yahweh and that Yahweh wasn't considered the MOST HIGH until Isaiah's time, roughly. The editors sort of grandfathered Yahweh into earlier books like in Genesis but in the pre-Jacob era when El was worshipped they changed over to Yahweh and basically forsook EL.

It's just what happened, hate me but don't hate the truth.

a reply to: chr0naut
You said you bested me in a conversation about Zoroastrianism.

You were bragging about it, but we have never discussed Zoroastrianism.

The message is a couple pages back.

a reply to: Sassanid

Just keeping it real, you are not an authority on the bible, nor would your highest peers accept you. Your proof is in a single wording from a one sourced collaborative translation. The people who translated it, would disagree with what you are saying.

You have have no proof of El beyond that. It is clear as I stated, you need the texts to support your view because you reject the image of what most people agree is god.

Pointing out that the argument is not fact based on either side and falls to I'm smartest so your facts are dumb, was all I was pointing out.

I'll give it to most of you, that you have years of understanding of a book that I lack. Though the lacking social depth is obvious.

originally posted by: Sassanid

originally posted by: blindprometheus
This is gross. A person makes a extreme logic jump from a single open ended paragraph. A jump that completely changes the tone of the entire message. Then is attacked by students of the word. So he then he claims he is indeed guided by god, not by the words of god written by man.

Following all this, the students then use the authority of previous scholars to mock and be little, the overly arrogant attempt of claiming discerning authority. I think the book with its mastery of ancient philosophy, has failed to greatly influence its most modern readers.

The readers here should try and understand the under lying indifference here. The main point of it being, that Sassanid does not think that the main god, could not have seemingly negative qualities like he has read of Yahweh. So he is trying hard to find evidence that Yahwey is a demon and that a being of "his perfect" love must have came first.... His need for El.

The matter being discussed here should be, why does our god not always match what we deem as perfect? Not, I'm smarter says I. You are a blasphemer and will be damned.... well oh yeah what book, who's authority... Authority! The mods that be will 404 this blatant ignorance. Troll. shill. madman. moron..... Yes, I read to many pages.

You sure are a blind Prometheus. My point is that Yahweh and El are different entities which is a fact. All your words are are slanderous accusations to attempt and discredit me because of your moronic half-wit observations trying to guess my intention your a joke. Your the troll, I am vehemently defending the truth you are being a complete ass. Flee Satan!!!

Your entire theology would seem to be based on a alternate translation of a single word.

What are the duties, requirements and laws incumbent upon us then, with El as a separate God to YHWH? And how does that relate to the rest of scripture?

If you denigrate YHWH as the bad because He wiped out innocent first born Egyptians (and some others), what about El, who wiped out ALL non-aquatic life on Earth (including the human race) except for one boatload of refugees? Surely El is then worse?

The passage, Deuteronomy 32: 8-9, in context, is about the allocation of land and is part of a song. It is about how God has supplied sufficient land for the future nation of Israel, among the other nations.

a reply to: chr0naut
I assure you I have a very accurate and exact theology and a clear understanding of the implications I just don't abandon the truth. El is not Yahweh, and that is a good thing, Yahweh is demonic and in the Ugaritic texts EL is benevolent. You just need a realistic perspective of the history of religion and the bible ultimately tells us that the Holy Spirit is God on earth til the end of time and that's my theology. El is Jesus Father and Jesus is his only BEGOTTEN son, and the Messiah. No
one religion has the perfect truth so I study them all because the world is diverse and I don't believe in worshipping an infanticidal, genocidal war mongering, slaughtering Canaan "god." It's like worshipping Hitler.

a reply to: chr0naut
Elohim is Gods and the original story is one God warns Noah but it wasn't El it was the Elohim who caused the flood.

a reply to: Sassanid

Wrong again. Poor you. Source

EL, Elohim, Addonai, EL ELYON et al are all titles or descriptions as I have sourced many times already. None of them are names.

From the same source:

YHWH / YAHWEH / JEHOVAH: “LORD” (Deuteronomy 6:4; Daniel 9:14) – strictly speaking, the only proper name for God. Translated in English Bibles “LORD” (all capitals) to distinguish it from Adonai, “Lord.” The revelation of the name is first given to Moses “I Am who I Am” (Exodus 3:14). This name specifies an immediacy, a presence. Yahweh is present, accessible, near to those who call on Him for deliverance (Psalm 107:13), forgiveness (Psalm 25:11) and guidance (Psalm 31:3).

Edit: You still have not sourced one single thing. This is all nonsensical drivel from your own head.

a reply to: Sassanid

Do you want to discuss this archaeological text about Ras Shamra and Ugarit ?
apologeticspress.org...

The religion of Ugarit was similar in many ways to the Canaanite system that the prophets of God
consistently denounced. The chief god was El, who was believed to be the father of seventy gods and
goddesses that comprised the Ugaritic pantheon. El was “a shadowy figure who apparently takes little part
in the affairs of men” (Wright, 1962, pp. 106-107). El’s wife, the mother of the pantheon’s gods and god-
- 3 -
desses, was Athirat or Elat. Her name appears in the form “Asherah” in the Old Testament (rendered
“groves” in the KJV; cf. Judges 3:7). Of El’s sons and daughters, Baal was the most popular. He was the
storm god who brought rain and fertility, and who frequently was in conflict with Mot, the god of death.
El appears to have been a schizophrenic sort of character who at times was “of mild character, good
humored,” never refusing what was asked of him, yet at other times, he might kill his father, or his son, or
cut off the head of his daughter (Wright, 1962, p. 107).

You said this

Yahweh is demonic and in the Ugaritic texts EL is benevolent.

The scholars of Ugaritic texts don't agree with you.

Some people would side with Sassanid, I actually believe he is correct, though proving it poorly. I did hope he would revile something new to me, by acting as the devils advocate. But opinions are like butts and here is a youtube stinker.

originally posted by: blindprometheus
Some people would side with Sassanid, I actually believe he is correct, though proving it poorly. I did hope he would revile something new to me, by acting as the devils advocate. But opinions are like butts and here is a youtube stinker.

You flip flop now but can't do it without a cowardly insult.

I guarantee I'm doing a better job than you could. You just came over to my side after hating on my whole premise.

That's success.

originally posted by: kitzik
a reply to: Sassanid

Do you want to discuss this archaeological text about Ras Shamra and Ugarit ?
apologeticspress.org...

The religion of Ugarit was similar in many ways to the Canaanite system that the prophets of God
consistently denounced. The chief god was El, who was believed to be the father of seventy gods and
goddesses that comprised the Ugaritic pantheon. El was “a shadowy figure who apparently takes little part
in the affairs of men” (Wright, 1962, pp. 106-107). El’s wife, the mother of the pantheon’s gods and god-
- 3 -
desses, was Athirat or Elat. Her name appears in the form “Asherah” in the Old Testament (rendered
“groves” in the KJV; cf. Judges 3:7). Of El’s sons and daughters, Baal was the most popular. He was the
storm god who brought rain and fertility, and who frequently was in conflict with Mot, the god of death.
El appears to have been a schizophrenic sort of character who at times was “of mild character, good
humored,” never refusing what was asked of him, yet at other times, he might kill his father, or his son, or
cut off the head of his daughter (Wright, 1962, p. 107).

You said this

Yahweh is demonic and in the Ugaritic texts EL is benevolent.

The scholars of Ugaritic texts don't agree with you.

The text you provided supports everything I have been saying. Ill tske a shadowy laid back benevolent God like El, who I don't believe cut off anyone's head, the only bad thing about El in that sample and it is the words of a man not the text itself .

I stand by my benevolent comment regarding El. I've mentioned the 70 sons, a few of their names and Asherah. El is free will oriented that is his whole test and it applies to his Sons and us.

He is the Father of Jesus. The Holy Spirit is God until the end of time, judgement day.

Other than that, I have no concerns about God, I have a very good relationship with the Most High El. That's all that matters.


Oh, and Yahweh is a piece of hsit and a demon. El is the Most High.

Im a little shadowy and schizophrenic myself so I think it's cool me and God have that in common.

Myths are stories told about sometimes real people that aren't actually true.

originally posted by: Sassanid

originally posted by: kitzik
a reply to: Sassanid

I personally mentioned those texts myself. It's not the gotcha moment you expected, myths are myths and you don't take them literally. El is better than Yahweh. Some guy says that its what it says I only care about 2 things: 1. El is not Yahweh. 2. El is the Most High and is benevolent. Schizophrenic, shadowy, are qualities I possess myself. The stories are mythical and esoteric anyway they aren't history.

Yahweh is a piece of zhit and a demon. He beguiled the Jews.

edit on 9-3-2016 by Sassanid because: (no reason given)