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Deuteronomy 32:8 Yahweh a Son of God (The Most High)

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posted on Apr, 11 2016 @ 08:08 PM
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originally posted by: ilstar

originally posted by: Mazzini
a reply to: ilstar
I suggest, if you REALLY want to learn the Bible, the only Bible that will tell you all this is the 1966 Jerusalem Bible. You will have to pay for it, about 70 dollars and it's rare but I have two because I had a beat up one and I wanted a mint condition one, and I bought it.

The Oxford annotated bible is the next best.


Here is something you may find baffling about your Bible-of-choice:

The text of the Old Testament is treated with great freedom. Frequently the traditional Masoretic text is departed from, in favor of readings from the ancient versions, and many conjectural emendations are also adopted rather arbitrarily. One academic reviewer (Gleason Archer) has described the Jerusalem Bible's emendations of the Hebrew text as "undisciplined and capricious," and concludes that "the Hebrew text is completely at the mercy of these translators, who can alter it to mean whatever they choose it to mean, without following the scientific procedures worked out by competent textual critics." (bible-researcher)


It's not an accomplishment to find a negative review of a bible on the internet. That could be done with any and every version.

Departing from the Masoretic texts is what makes a bible good. The Dead Sea Scrolls and the Greek texts are the best.

You trying to discredit a bible that is probably the best, most thorough and accurate as well as honest bibles ever created is despicable and a tactic of deceit. I could find an article right now that says mother Theresa worshipped Satan but that doesn't make it so.




posted on Apr, 11 2016 @ 09:57 PM
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originally posted by: ElementalFreeze
It is good news that Yahweh is just the god of the Jews. He is a threatening demanding murdering psychopath who terrorized Israel for most of the Bible with the exception of a few good generations Yahweh is always demanding someone's death. Human sacrifice on a mass scale is disguised as some kind of holy war because Yahweh ordered it.

Any god that instructs his people to do genocide is an evil god.


If you read the accounts of the wars in the bible, many times the Israelites blew horns, smashed jars, etc and did not really do any fighting. In other words the wars were supernatural in nature, with God fighting the battle. This is the case with Pharaoh being covered by the Red Sea, Jericho falling, Sennacherib's men being killed by an angel. The point being is God does not instruct his people to kill.



posted on Apr, 12 2016 @ 04:02 AM
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a reply to: TheChrome

You said:

"The point is God does not instruct his people to kill."

This is a laughable statement. Off the top of my head I can tell you that a man who was gathering wood to burn was executed by direct order from Yahweh to Moses who consulted Him before punishing the man to see what the appropriate punishment was. Yahweh said he must die, stone him outside the camp.

And the conquest of Canaan Israel was ordered to kill men, women, children and animals. Everything breathing.

But my comment was more about Yahweh being evil so him supernaturally killing people supports my position.



posted on Apr, 16 2016 @ 10:17 PM
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originally posted by: ElementalFreeze

originally posted by: ilstar

originally posted by: Mazzini
a reply to: ilstar
I suggest, if you REALLY want to learn the Bible, the only Bible that will tell you all this is the 1966 Jerusalem Bible. You will have to pay for it, about 70 dollars and it's rare but I have two because I had a beat up one and I wanted a mint condition one, and I bought it.

The Oxford annotated bible is the next best.


Here is something you may find baffling about your Bible-of-choice:

The text of the Old Testament is treated with great freedom. Frequently the traditional Masoretic text is departed from, in favor of readings from the ancient versions, and many conjectural emendations are also adopted rather arbitrarily. One academic reviewer (Gleason Archer) has described the Jerusalem Bible's emendations of the Hebrew text as "undisciplined and capricious," and concludes that "the Hebrew text is completely at the mercy of these translators, who can alter it to mean whatever they choose it to mean, without following the scientific procedures worked out by competent textual critics." (bible-researcher)


It's not an accomplishment to find a negative review of a bible on the internet. That could be done with any and every version.

Departing from the Masoretic texts is what makes a bible good. The Dead Sea Scrolls and the Greek texts are the best.

You trying to discredit a bible that is probably the best, most thorough and accurate as well as honest bibles ever created is despicable and a tactic of deceit. I could find an article right now that says mother Theresa worshipped Satan but that doesn't make it so.


First, the article contained a review by an academic scholar.
Second, The Dead Sea Scrolls prove you wrong (read the arguments by earlier commenters).
Third, The Greek texts have also been manipulated. (Guess by whom.)



posted on Apr, 17 2016 @ 04:49 PM
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a reply to: ilstar

First, academic scholars have agendas and personal bias too. I have read every page of the Jerusalem bible and it is truly a masterpiece. I would be suspicious of any negative reviews as they are probably negative because the Jerusalem bible is too revealing, too honest and absolutely shattered the notion of Yahweh as Most High with its CORRECT translation of Deuteronomy 32. That's if you can get one.

But every honest Christian I know admires the Jerusalem bible and I have read 30 positive reviews to 1 negative. I checked personally some of the claims of that one review and caught 4 or 5 outright lies before I stopped.

It's just dispicable that you read a review and now you're an expert on the Jerusalem bible and the DSS. I own all published DSS material and 2 Jerusalem bible's and I read everyday 3-5 hours.

So what is it that the DSS prove me "wrong" about? I'm not searching this 25 page thread to figure out what I already know. You are full of it and don't know what you are talking about. I don't even know what you are claiming I am wrong about that the Dead Sea Scrolls could prove me wrong. They are the first choice in much of my bible when choosing what to use for the translating, my Jerusalem bible.



Did I ever say that the Greek was PERFECT? No. Just better than the Masoretic and that it is usually in agreement with the DSS.

I love when know it alls know they are wrong and still argue the point they are wrong about and blame everything under the sun for why it only looks like they're wrong but aren't.

And then say things like, "and the dead sea scrolls prove you wrong." About what? That the J.B. is probably the best?

Because it was the FIRST to use the Dead Sea Scrolls in translating, so it must be what I said about the Scrolls being better than the Masoretic. But that doesn't make any sense.


What do they prove me wrong about?

What are you even arguing? That Yahweh was always the Most High in Israel? Factually untrue. If that is your position we have nothing to discuss because I KNOW, not believe, KNOW, that is a myth, lie and wrong.

You only can believe otherwise. I am aware of proof that it is a false belief. You are not.
edit on 17-4-2016 by ElementalFreeze because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 17 2016 @ 08:07 PM
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a reply to: ElementalFreeze

The General editor of the 1966 Jerusalem Bible is Alexander Jones, L.S.S, S.T I, I.C.B. I don't know what those letters mean but assume it's some academic credentials. The list of scholars involved in the translation and revision process is 27 and that is not a complete list. I can provide names if you want, one worth mentioning who worked on Jonah specifically was J.R.R. Tolkien. I am not familiar with his work but I know he is famous. Not that it matters as he only worked on one book. But it is said to be a fine team of translators who were not anchored to dogma and were freeto translate and make explanatory footnotes that didn't always jive with official dogma but that was never the goal.

From the beginning with the Pope's decree it was to be faithfulto the most ancient existing biblical writings the DeadSea Scrolls with alteranate translations noted in the ffootnotes from all existing languages. But it was essentially a reaction to the discovery and translation of the Scrolls that made it happen with the Catholic church probably wanting to be in the first to produce a DSS based translation and also set the record straight and they did.



posted on Apr, 18 2016 @ 11:13 AM
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a reply to: ilstar

Your silence is revealing. You know you are about to get into a discussion where you will be proven wrong.

You don't like what I say and your strategy is to insult a bible. Genius.

A guy who went to college doesn't like the Jerusalem bible so that means it's not a masterpiece?

I'll take the words of the the bible and roughly 30 scholars who actually saw the scrolls over the word of some guy.

Do you always think one man's opinion is fact because he went to college?

If you want to speak about a book you should read it first.

Instead of borrowing opinions that suit your needs and agenda b.



posted on Apr, 19 2016 @ 06:53 AM
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a reply to: ilstar

Lilstar I am waiting for you to reply. You wanted to discuss the matter before. What happened, you realized that you don't have the actual knowledge?



posted on Apr, 20 2016 @ 04:55 AM
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a reply to: Padawan ElementalFreeze


By Padawan:
Lilstar I am waiting for you to reply. You wanted to discuss the matter before. What happened, you realized that you don't have the actual knowledge?


You keep asking him for his reply yet you seem to disregard questions directed at you on the thread you started Padawan. That is being hypocritical.

How about answering my question I asked back on page 10? Ohh I know because you know your wrong.

Ill repeat the question I asked way way back on page 10 Padawan.


By coomba98. (Who Padawan calls Summers Eve)

Ok I say this again, im on your side with this argument but man, 1956, with what around four upgrades since.

The Hebrew Torah Deuteronomy was written in 1406 B.C and say in its most true translation:

ח.בְּהַנְחֵל עֶלְיוֹן גּוֹיִם בְּהַפְרִידוֹ בְּנֵי אָדָם יַצֵּב גְּבֻלֹת עַמִּים לְמִסְפַּר בְּנֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל

meaning:

'When the Most High gave nations their lot, when He separated the sons of man, He set up the boundaries of peoples according to the number of the children of Israel.'

..

Im with you overall with your argument, but not on this digger. I go with the oldest and in my opinion most correct in this case.

Coomba4000 - GODLIKE!


So why do you give credence to texts that contradict the original texts Padawan?

I know, because it contradicts your beliefs no? (



posted on Apr, 20 2016 @ 02:19 PM
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a reply to: ElementalFreeze



First, academic scholars have agendas and personal bias too. I have read every page of the Jerusalem bible and it is truly a masterpiece. I would be suspicious of any negative reviews as they are probably negative because the Jerusalem bible is too revealing, too honest and absolutely shattered the notion of Yahweh as Most High with its CORRECT translation of Deuteronomy 32. That's if you can get one.

Tell me just how would you know that the New Jerusalem bible is a masterpiece? Are you insane or just acting crazy? Just where are your autographs and credentials as a multi linguist translator and interpreter to make that claim? Do you realize that some of the dead sea scrolls could also be corrupt? Who did these translators of the New Jerusalem bible compare the autographs with? Did you know there are no autographs to compare the New Jerusalem bible with? Or any other bible to say the least.

A significant comparison study was conducted with the Isaiah Scroll written around 100 B.C. that was found among the Dead Sea documents and the book of Isaiah found in the Masoretic text. After much research, scholars found that the two texts were practically identical. Most variants were minor spelling differences, and none affected the meaning of the text.

Quote
One of the most respected Old Testament scholars, the late Gleason Archer, examined the two Isaiah scrolls found in Cave 1 and wrote, “Even though the two copies of Isaiah discovered in Qumran Cave 1 near the Dead Sea in 1947 were a thousand years earlier than the oldest dated manuscript previously known (A.D. 980), they proved to be word for word identical with our standard Hebrew Bible in more than 95 percent of the text. The five percent of variation consisted chiefly of obvious slips of the pen and variations in spelling.”
Unquote
Source - www.probe.org...

Now with that thought come accusations from some that somehow the KJV Masoretic text is not accurate and that the New Jerusalem text is a masterpiece. Tell me how did you come to this conclusion? You just read that in a comparative study they were word for word identical one with the other. That is the portions that were compared. Who did your New Jerusalem bible translators use for Torah? They could not have used the Aleppo Codex of the Masoretics and had to use what little they had in the DSS.

Let me explain to you the fallacy of all of this. Only about 40 to 45 % of the dead sea scrolls are represented in the Tanakh (Old Testament). So what did the translators use from the dead sea scrolls to translate your Old testament New Jerusalem bible? Where did they get the manuscripts for the rest of the New Jerusalem bible?

They did not use the Aleppo Codex texts of the Torah because they do not exist anymore. They were torn out of Torah by the Muslims of Syria in about 1947 All that is left are the eleven pages of Deuteronomy. The 930 C.E. Torah of the Aleppo Codex is not available and was not available for the translation of the New Jerusalem bible of 1966. Now this leaves only a small percentage or fragments of the DSS for the translators to use in the New Jerusalem bible.

My question is to you -- What exactly did the translators use in producing the New Jerusalem bible that you have declared a masterpiece? Most certainly not the DSS nor the Aleppo codex. What does that leave. Either the copies of the Aleppo codex or your Septuagint copies are about the only options left. Are you under the allusion that the DSS contains the entire Tanakh?



posted on Apr, 21 2016 @ 07:33 AM
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a reply to: Padawan ElementalFreeze


By Padawan:
Lilstar I am waiting for you to reply. You wanted to discuss the matter before. What happened, you realized that you don't have the actual knowledge?


Your words Padawan.....

Padawan I am waiting for you to reply. You wanted to discuss the matter before. What happened, you realized that you don't have the actual knowledge?

Coomba98.... Sorry

Summers Eve



posted on Apr, 21 2016 @ 05:44 PM
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a reply to: ElementalFreeze

You are a lazy bum.

OccamsRazor04's argument and chr0naut's argument

I'm tired of your thread. You've been disproven on page 4 and just keep on going, 3-5 hours of bible reading and a couple on this forum every day. Get a life.

And here is the question you haven't answered:
Are Dead Sea Scrolls right or are they wrong?



posted on Apr, 21 2016 @ 07:47 PM
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a reply to: ilstar
Not meaning to be rude ilstar but I do not believe ElementalFreeze even understands what he is reading,

The dead Sea Scrolls are not proven to be either right or wrong. We do not have the original scrolls (autographs) to compare them with. But what we do have are fragments and a few complete books of the Hebrew bible (our old testament). Out of all of the dead sea scrolls found to date, (about 220 fragments and several partial and one complete texts) contain about 25% of the old testament which most people have in their bibles. In other words 75% of your old testament is not in the dead sea scrolls. The most common books and fragments found are Psalms and Deuteronomy with the complete Isaiah scroll.

Now before these dead sea scrolls were discovered we had two sources of your old testament. One source was the Hebrew rendition (Masoretic or Aleppo Codex) which was compiled or finished in about 930 CE. We also had the Greek Septuagint text which the original has been lost. So in effect that is why the KJV translators chose the Aleppo Codex or Masoretic text for their old testament. But now the original Masoretic text (Aleppo Codex of 930 CE) was destroyed in the 1948 war with the Arabs. It was housed in Syria and was destroyed with just a few pages left of Torah. Those remainders of Torah are now in Israel.

So as you can see that there is no valid claims that my book is better than your book. We have no autographs of either the old or new testaments to make such foolish claims. Certainly the dead sea scrolls could be wrong. People are people regardless of how you see them and they all are full of errors every day. Those scribes of ancient days were just as human as you are today and yes they have made errors. There is no such thing as a masterpiece.

So what do we do? We guess that we are right. How do we do this guessing? We take the majority of all of the known texts that agree with each other and accept them as truth. Then there are some who will not accept the majority opinions and go with the oldest one text or perhaps the oldest complete text. Even at that there are some that will only follow Hebrew and some who will only believe Greek and then some who will only accept Aramaic and on and on it goes. So as you can see there is no proven concept and for a man to then say "My New Jerusalem bible is a masterpiece" is nonsense. There is no masterpiece from a human.



posted on Apr, 23 2016 @ 04:10 PM
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a reply to: Seede

I've never considered any version of the Bible a masterpiece. I think the greatest (fantasy) book every written is J. R. R. Tolkien's The Silmarillion (2nd ed.).



posted on Apr, 23 2016 @ 04:22 PM
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when you see the words catholic version of the bible just run....RRUUUNNNNN




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