Why some people believe in God and in the bible and others do not.

originally posted by: Slanter
a reply to: DeathSlayer

By supernatural experiences do you mean "miracles" like surviving a car crash, or supernatural events like "seeing an angel" or the like?

A few "supernatural" events christians have related to me seem little more than chance, like the guy who became a pastor because his car slid on ice, did a 360 spin, and straightened out and kept going without hitting anyone. Other's have been subjective and difficult to identify, like "feelings." Going to church people say then can "feel the lord" in them, but I also had some friends that swore that they could hear their crystals talking to each other and feel the "energy" in the crystal.

They've tried waving the crystal in front of my face saying things like "Really? You can't feel that? You must be blocked!" and religious people tell me "If you can't feel christs spirit within you must be closing yourself off!" but a large part of me can't help but think "What if they're all deluding themselves into this fuzzy feeling?"

If you could describe physically what the spirit of christs feels like how would you? Is it a buzzing? a tingling in the back of your head/neck/spine?

WOW what a great question! Star for you

I have asked others this very question as well. First it is a very personal and intimate

I have had four head on car accidents - none of them my fault. I have had numerous experiences and can I call everyone of them a supernatural experience......NO.

One night I am driving home from work listening to some Christian music and singing along when I looked over at the passenger seat and a large man in white was sitting in the chair looking out the front windshield as he smiled. Was this a supernatural experience YES.

Have I seen a demon? Many.... is this a supernatural experience? YES but not the type I like. I am a demonologist and do deliverance ministry so sometimes I see or feel things (hair pulled, scratch marks, pulled out of bed at night by my feet, VERY deep growls, something standing at the foot of my bed or kneeling down near my face starring at me as I open my eyes) etc...

Do I pray daily YES. Are my prayers answered? YES Is this supernatural? YES because my specific prayers are answered.

Have I seen people be healed instantly from broken bones, deaf, blind and various illnesses? YES, is this supernatural? YES

Are there others who do this? YES and much much more than I.

If you are sensitive, can you feel the anointing (power from God) of someone? Oh yes..... often not pastors and preachers..... how do you recognize them? almost impossible to anger, very very paitent, loving and kind, concerned about you and your family. charitable... etc..... what most people are NOT. When they touch you ...... peace comes over you IMMEDIATELY and a warm feeling running through your body.

Are you starting to see a pattern?

No longer do I have the LUXURY to have faith for I have seen.

originally posted by: DeathSlayer

I was SELECTED to be class president did that make me delusional? Of course not.

If the people that selected you were invisible, silent and could not be found anywhere other than in your head then yes. My guess is that unlike your god you could actually see and interact with those people. That's a big difference.

I was raised a Christian, I was Christened, I went to Sunday school every Sunday to be indoctrinated, however I was also born with an intelligent, inquisitive, logical, critical and sometime rebellious mind, I've always wanted to believe in God, I've read a few different bibles numerous times in order to educate myself but the more I've researched religion the less I've been able to believe.

And what it boils down for me, is it's illogical for me to believe in an entity I do feel any presence from, based on a book written by men that has so many contradictions and possibilities for personal interpretations within it. IF the book was truly written from the word of God, the writing would transcend time and would only one interpretation, the fact that so many can interpret the words in so many different ways is evidence to me that the word is fallible and therefore cannot be possible be the words from infallible divine being.

We all want meaning and purpose in our lives, some of us will sacrifice logic in order to have that meaning and purpose because it's more comfortable than spending a life constantly wondering what the point of life is when you constantly see so much horror in the world.

My Grandmother was a devout Christian all her life for 64 years, until the day my Grandfather died and she realised how cruel the world actually is and everything she'd been told about a loving God was a complete and utter lie.

originally posted by: 3danimator2014

originally posted by: DeathSlayer
Now lets take a look at those who refuse to believe.....

Why People Reject the Bible

What about those who don’t accept the Bible? Scripture is equally plain as to why this is the case:

“Jesus said, “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to infants. Yes, Father, for this way was well-pleasing in Your sight. All things have been handed over to Me by My Father; and no one knows the Son except the Father; nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him” (Matt. 11:25–27).
“To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. . . .This is why I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand” (Matt. 13:11–15).
“And Jesus said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal this [that Jesus is the Christ] to you, but My Father who is in heaven”” (Matt. 16:17)
“Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear my word. You are of your father the devil” (John 8:43–44).
“Whoever is of God hears the words of God. The reason why you do not hear them is that you are not of God” (John 8:47).
“you do not believe because you are of My sheep” (John 10:26).
“For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God’s law; indeed, it cannot” (Rom. 8:7).
“But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised” (1 Cor. 2:14).
“Even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing” (2 Cor. 4:3).
“We are from God. Whoever knows God listens to us; whoever is not from God does not listen to us. By this we know the Spirit of truth and the spirit of error” (1 John 4:6).
While non-Christians may provide many explanations as to why they discard the Bible, the actual reason they don’t believe is that God hasn’t spiritually awakened them (yet). The objection of not having enough proof fails to hold water because (1) there is plenty of evidence that attests to the Bible’s validity; (2) people act contrary to evidence all the time, as I point out in my article that discusses evidence and hard core unbelief.

Thou you can see you can not see God, thou you can hear, you can not hear God.

You are not a child of God because you reject him.

Oh just piss off already. Don't per use to tell me why I don believe in an invisible man in the sky who allows infants to suffer and then die...because they are born with sin in them. Vile. Vile vile vile.


Religion is a cancer. Time to cut it out.

And this is your reason for not believing in an invisible GOD because infants suffer and then die?

What you want a God when you need him and then when you don't need him he should piss off?

Should God serve you or should you serve God?

You should study the Lord's prayer and find out what each word means.

originally posted by: Woodcarver
a reply to: DeathSlayer

Why is asking for proof childish? It seems to me that asking for proof of your claims is the more responsible position than just blindly believing things that you would like to be true.

Why do you always go to the "i must be angry" argument. This is the most desperate position there is. You cannot just concoct another fantasy to explain the reason that your evidence is not compelling. I am not angry in the least. I am simply asking for proof, but this is the nemesis to your position of believing your own comforting bias. Proof is the one thing you will never have on your side, so you have to demonize those who bring it up.

This request will never go away, so why not address it head on?

I did in my post, did you not read it? Why didn't you enclose my response with this recent response from you?

Very tricky and deceitful.

originally posted by: DeathSlayer

And this is your reason for not believing in an invisible GOD because infants suffer and then die?

I would think a valid reason for not believing in an invisible God would simply be that he's invisible. You need go no further than that actually. He's not present in our reality which is our only reality to speak of. That's the reason I don't believe in the boogey man or unicorns or fairies too. Should I start believing in them because they're invisible too???

a reply to: Subsonic

Religion is what happens when a self-aware life form has absolutely no other way of comprehending their place in the world around them.

Well how about religious people who do have other ways of comprehending their place in the world around them?

Are there no religious people educated publicly, nor religious self-aware life forms confronted to the ideas of non-religious people?

They literally are unable, from a cognitive standpoint, to handle the idea that they are, in fact, a lucky coincidence of DNA and timing and nothing more.

Unable to, or able to do not only that but also handle other ideas?

Also, belief in both God and the bible is not at all opposed to us being a lucky coincidence.

As for the possibility that this coincidence is nothing more than DNA and timing, surely you can see what happens to DNA and timing: DNA tends to pro-create. Does that mean that fish become monkeys?
Maybe
Is that the only explanation that makes sense?
No

originally posted by: Slanter
a reply to: DeathSlayer

At the risk of sounding confrontational, are you insinuating that no hardcore christians have ever became buddhists, hindus, or muslims? I doubt that. Naturally, your rebuttal will be "Well, no TRUE christians would turn from the real faith." but you have to realize that that is exactly what the muslims say about muslims who become christian. So yes, people change their minds all the time, that still isn't evidence that your belief is truth above all others.

It says in the bible that there will be people who walk away from their faith. It even warns elders to watch out as a warning.

Sure, people change their minds and those who change their beliefs well then..... what does that say about their faith?

a reply to: DeathSlayer

Some people like me believe in God, but have problems with the bible. I grew up Catholic, I was an alter boy for 4 years, and learned about the bible everyday in the classroom. What made me turn away from practicing my Catholic faith was the hypocrisy I witnessed in the church and in all religions.

The bible states, we should not judge others, but religious leaders and their flock do exactly that. The bible also states, beware of false prophets. Which we've had many preachers and other religious leaders who have been exposed to be criminals or lead a life opposite of what they preach to their flock. Many make millions on the back of their followers.

We have over 20 some religions in the world. If God truly wanted us to follow a particular religious belief, he would have stated it clearly in the bible. The bible would also have been written in a way that people would not be able to distort nor interpret it's meaning to conform to their own belief. There are many scriptures that have been left out of the bible because they didn't conform to the expectations of what we believe is a loving God.

Why has the bible become a basis for creating religions? Religious beliefs have been the catalyst for creating laws, killings, conflicts, and wars in the past and up to it's current day! Just look at how the Koran has created different interpretation and divisiveness in the middle east. The bible could very well be a tool to divide and cause conflict among humanity. Wouldn't it be alarming if we found out the bible wasn't the word of God after all?

a reply to: wisvol

It wasn't a case of one day there was fish, then the next those fish turned into monkeys, evolution isn't as magical as the bible.

There was a process of those fish going through evolutionary stages through millions upon millions of years.

Think of it the way a tree grows from a seed



That, believe it or not is a Palm Tree, looks nothing like a tree does it ? Much like a monkey looks nothing like a fish

Also it would help if you educated yourself, we did not evolve from monkeys, monkeys and ourselves evolved from a common ancestor which diverged into 2 lineages, 1 evolves into monkeys and apes the other evolved into hominids which in turn evolved in homo sapiens we know today

a reply to: Discotech

A well written post.

I understand your thought. I too am a logical person however when dealing with the supernatural..... you can take logic and throw it out
the window. The supernatural is NOT logical.

The bible is the divine word of God and you need to study it. Not only should you read the bible but there are many other books available that will help you better understand.

I am sorry about your grandmother but if she did not know that we will all get old and die one day then I don't know what to tell you....she should have known this and for her to reject God based upon her husband's death shows how little her faith is in God.

a reply to: DeathSlayer

I clearly wrote I have researched religion and read the bible (reading is studying you know) numerous times in different iterations of it.

My Grandmother was the same age as my Grandfather, 64 is not that old, he had only just been out of retirement from being a heating engineer for SIX MONTHS. If she had such little faith she wouldn't have spent the last 63 years of her life going to church every Sunday and praying to God every night. How dare you say something like that about her, you really are living up to your "I AM TEH CHOSEN ONE" attitude with comments like that!

Here's a few questions for you as clearly I've been reading the wrong versions of the bible to not "get" God's message,

Which version should I be reading ?

Are all the other versions false ?

Why are there so many different versions that each have subtle nuances to the meaning God wished to convey to us all ?

And finally, Why is such an important book written in such a way that is heavily open for interpretation ? Surely the word of God should have one meaning that everyone gets and is not open to interpretation ?

a reply to: Discotech

A seed becoming a tree is a familiar process to me.
A fish pro-creating into a monkey isn't.

Also it would help if you educated yourself, we did not evolve from monkeys, monkeys and ourselves evolved from a common ancestor

A common ancestor which is a fish, in your opinion.

And that's great. Unobserved periods of time might do these things, very slowly.

The thing is: as a scientist you can observe and can reproduce a seed growing into a tree.
That which you can't observe or reproduce isn't science, it's faith.
Gene manipulation requires intent, so if I take a fish foetus and tweak it into a monkey it would be intelligent design, now would it not?

You have faith in the fish to monkey, and in the bacteria to fish and seed-bearing tree theory?

Great.

I don't, and education didn't change that one bit.

originally posted by: WeRpeons
a reply to: DeathSlayer

Some people like me believe in God, but have problems with the bible. I grew up Catholic, I was an alter boy for 4 years, and learned about the bible everyday in the classroom. What made me turn away from practicing my Catholic faith was the hypocrisy I witnessed in the church and in all religions.

The bible states, we should not judge others, but religious leaders and their flock do exactly that. The bible also states, beware of false prophets. Which we've had many preachers and other religious leaders who have been exposed to be criminals or lead a life opposite of what they preach to their flock. Many make millions on the back of their followers.

We have over 20 some religions in the world. If God truly wanted us to follow a particular religious belief, he would have stated it clearly in the bible. The bible would also have been written in a way that people would not be able to distort nor interpret it's meaning to conform to their own belief. There are many scriptures that have been left out of the bible because they didn't conform to the expectations of what we believe is a loving God.

Why has the bible become a basis for creating religions? Religious beliefs have been the catalyst for creating laws, killings, conflicts, and wars in the past and up to it's current day! Just look at how the Koran has created different interpretation and divisiveness in the middle east. The bible could very well be a tool to divide and cause conflict among humanity. Wouldn't it be alarming if we found out the bible wasn't the word of God after all?

NONE of us have all the answers and neither do I. Religion overall has done horrific damage to believers around the world but we should keep in mind that these people made these decisions and not necessarily God. Yes he has allowed these things to occur but why is the question we should be asking ourselves instead of blaming God. The horrific things that have occurred on this planet on behalf of religion was directly done by mankind and not God.

No one that I know on this planet is God's personal spoke person dealing with all areas of the natural and supernatural. He does use some of us for SPECIFIC purposes. Most of the issues within the bible are insignificant mistranslations that has entered the bible over time but if you do your research you will find the overall teachings have not changed... Dead sea scrolls of the book of Isaiah for example......are almost identical to what is in the bible today.

What people need to start doing is stop judging God. Many here at ATS SCREAM at Christians to stop judging but these same people are the ones who judge God. God did not bring these problems we have today to this planet. We are at fault and not God but mankind can NOT fix the problems we have can they? So what is the solution and and answer?

If you refuse to believe in God, what about Jesus? Is he a lie too? Were the apostles a lie?

originally posted by: DeathSlayer

originally posted by: Slanter
So, I don't believe in god because he hasn't "picked" me to believe in him yet? It seems sorta hypocritical of him to damn me to eternal fire if I die before he gets around to infusing me with the holy spirit.

You do not believe in God because you do not want to.

Oh BTW there is no eternal fire.....Christ will destroy it. Read the book of Revelation.

Hell is not for eternity ...... again another lie from those who hate God.

That's not what Matthew 25 says.

The simple reason some believe and some don't has much more to do with society and upbringing, than anything to do with any "deity". In Western civilization, it is consensus that the Christian god exists. In the Middle East, it is consensus that Allah exists. In India, Krishna, and so on. I suppose the BILLIONS of souls who have died without Christ in these other societies just weren't worthy to be chosen by god. Oh well, no biggie, right? At least I'M CHOSEN. I'M BLESSED.

You can conclude pretty easy why some people don't believe in the bible. The bible has plot holes worse than some of the worst hollywood film. The end.

a reply to: wisvol

Clearly you're just ignorant that you keep calling it a fish, not all creatures from the sea are fish but I guess you'll probably call Dolphin a fish, and a Seal a fish and an Octopus a fish because they all dwell in the Ocean...

This is for kids to learn evolution so it will probably suit you as it's rather simplified providing you know what a horse is (it's not a fish)

evidence for evolution

Unlike Religion people actually put a little effort into researching and finding out if Evolution is actually possible instead of just blindly believing what's written in a book

a reply to: Discotech

I see I struck a nerve when speaking about your grandmother and that was not my intention. I apologize if I insulted you or your family but when I talk of faith it goes beyond death. I have died and seen the other side and those who have remained faithful will inherit everlasting life. My father and mother died at 62 years old (six months apart both of cancer) and of course it hurt but is that a reason to give up my faith? If I so easily gave up my faith based upon my parents death what does that say about my faith in God?

You say you have read the bible and I believe you and you say you did not get God's message? What message were you looking for? Is reading the bible all it takes? And your day to day life? Your prayer life? Are you spreading the Gospel and being a disciple as Christ has asked or have you stopped or better yet have you ever done it?

Have you spread the Gospel here at ATS?

Do you visit the sick in the hospital or that lost one sitting in prison? Just asking.....

Are you daily sacrificing your needs for others? Are you showing the type of agape love that Christ ask of you on a daily basis? Because if you are then you got the message.

How many people do you know that do this? I bet you can count them on one hand.

a reply to: Discotech

Clearly you're just ignorant that you keep calling it a fish, not all creatures from the sea are fish but I guess you'll probably call Dolphin a fish, and a Seal a fish and an Octopus a fish because they all dwell in the Ocean...

What did I call a fish, that was not a fish?

Unlike Religion people actually put a little effort into researching and finding out if Evolution is actually possible instead of just blindly believing what's written in a book

People with religious belief have put effort in research.
Most anything is possible.

By the way, theory is a scientific word whose origin is not a fish.
Darwin calls evolution a theory in that book you believe. I don't say blindly because you already used the term, but hey, blindly.

originally posted by: Klassified

originally posted by: DeathSlayer

originally posted by: Slanter
So, I don't believe in god because he hasn't "picked" me to believe in him yet? It seems sorta hypocritical of him to damn me to eternal fire if I die before he gets around to infusing me with the holy spirit.

You do not believe in God because you do not want to.

Oh BTW there is no eternal fire.....Christ will destroy it. Read the book of Revelation.

Hell is not for eternity ...... again another lie from those who hate God.

That's not what Matthew 25 says.

The simple reason some believe and some don't has much more to do with society and upbringing, than anything to do with any "deity". In Western civilization, it is consensus that the Christian god exists. In the Middle East, it is consensus that Allah exists. In India, Krishna, and so on. I suppose the BILLIONS of souls who have died without Christ in these other societies just weren't worthy to be chosen by god. Oh well, no biggie, right? At least I'M CHOSEN. I'M BLESSED.

So what do we do with this info? So you are telling me all these faiths believe in a God? Well then that is a good start.... so this is close to what 95% of the worlds population?

So then can we agree there is a God?

We can work his name later.

Most we be given another chance it is called the resurrection.....