...But I'll defend to the death, your right to say it...

originally posted by: NeoSpartan
a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

Can't be much clearer than that. Maybe you could quote the specific "threat of violence" I espoused.

Ok.

If you want to die for your racist outbursts...

You are obviously suggesting that people are going to die because of things they said. Things you obviously don't like.

This is completely transparant.

I like how you add that you will be looking the other way.

Like having the last laugh.

Why, because your religion and prophet are getting, not even insulted, but exposed. And now you expose yourself.

I still don't see the threat of violence.

Hypothetical scenarios are not a threat.
As much as you want it to be.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: reldra

And you are exhibit #1 who will be happy to carry out Charlie's little experiment.

Just remove the people you don't like. And I'm sure after you've offed a few million all the rest will be perfectly happy.

Take me to where he is suggesting cleansing by removal from the population ? I missed it?

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
a reply to: DBCowboy

That's true. I won't defend your right to remove my freedoms. You got me.

But it is only speech how could it remove your freedoms? Can you explain how it affects you if he uses his right to freedom of speech to call for sharia law ...

If I am just calling for the death of people with the screen name "hopenotfeariswhatweneed", I'm not actually killing anyone named "hopenotfeariswhatweneed", just using my free speech to call for the death of people named "hopenotfeariswhatweneed".

So I guess that is okay.

And if it is, I humbly apologize and will state that I am wrong.

Death to "hopenotfeariswhatweneed"!

(just kidding, I don't really want you to die)

I can't believe people are actually getting offended by this thread.

People who are non-PC, would you sit there and defend someone to the death who was slandering you and calling you a rapist if it weren't true? What about if they were talking about your children? Would you take a bullet for them in all honesty? I wouldn't and you're crazy if you would.

I don't think this thread has ANYTHING to do with wanting to kill or throw anyone in jail who practices free speech, it's about not putting your life on the line for someone who is clearly racist, bigoted, rude, etc. with their words. I can't believe that has even been suggested.

What has happened to ATS? This was once a place where people denied ignorance, now it seems ignorance is bigger than ever.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

I don't complain when people criticise Islam.

If I see something flagrantly fallacious, I'll point it out.
Other than that it's not worth my time to cry about criticism.

Especially when the message of the Prophet was "if someone comes in your direction and is rude or unbearable, bid them peace"...

So, Salam.

And when a Hadith tells we should through the gays from minarets? Or the relationship of your prophet to children? The treatment of women as second class citizens? Perhaps in their destruction you will be equally as unmotivated to defend them.

Salam.

I've never defended Hadith, on ATS or in the real world.

That free speech could one day make me a target, hopefully you'll be there to protect my cowardly self.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
I don't think this thread has ANYTHING to do with wanting to kill or throw anyone in jail who practices free speech, it's about not putting your life on the line for someone who is clearly racist, bigoted, rude, etc. with their words. I can't believe that has even been suggested.

That is how I read the OP. Its like the anti PC crowd have entered into Bizarro world.....

a reply to: DBCowboy

(just kidding, I don't really want you to die)

PC ALERT! PC ALERT! Everyone, let's accuse him of things he never said for being PC!

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

I've never defended Hadith, on ATS or in the real world.

That free speech could one day make me a target, hopefully you'll be there to protect my cowardly self.

Indeed I would. How else can we know evil if we do not allow it to speak?

originally posted by: TerminalVelocity
So let's say there is a fire....and a person that you have labeled as such is caught in it.

You are in a position to save their life, at possible risk of your own.

Are you saying that you would not risk your life for them?

That because of their beliefs, brainwashing or upbringing that may make them the way they are is so bad, that you instead would let them die instead?

So, if instead, the person caught in the fire is just like you...or is someone you like, or that you think has the proper way of thought....they are worthy of saving.....

Anyone else however......you'd instead just let them die?

If that's true: would you care to explain to me what the difference between you and them are? Sorry, but it seems they would feel the same way about you......so how are you any different?

I'd like to hear an explanation.

In all honesty I'd be hesitant about running into an engulfed building for an innocent baby...

Fight or flight would take over and it would be down to instinct...


Now, if I knew for a fact it was a racist or homophobe or any hate filled individual...
No I wouldn't risk my life for them.

Give me a good reason to, aside from the "you're no better than" argument.
I won't lose sleep over that.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: reldra

And you are exhibit #1 who will be happy to carry out Charlie's little experiment.

Just remove the people you don't like. And I'm sure after you've offed a few million all the rest will be perfectly happy.

What garbage. You're the poster child for telling other people "So what you're saying is ... "

Charlie's Little Experiment is that he's not going to die for fools.

The rest of it ... you're making up out of pure BS.

a reply to: zazzafrazz

That is how I read the OP. Its like the anti PC crowd have entered into Bizarro world.....

The correct term is pro free-speech crowd. PC is anti-free speech.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

I get it Charlie I really do. I hate it, I would never defend it however, what I will defend is the right to free speech. Slippery slope isn't always a fallacy and natural rights are one area I won't take a risk on. It's far too easy once a government is granted a power for it them to abuse it. I'm perfectly capable of condemning what's said while defending free speech and I would absolutely.

So while I won't shed blood for a racist asshole, I will shed blood to defend free speech... lest my own speech or my fellow Americans speech become labeled illegal. I know I don't usually ever project and often razz the "raa raa not while I breathe" mentality but on this? Most definitely not while I still breathe.

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
a reply to: DBCowboy

That's true. I won't defend your right to remove my freedoms. You got me.

But it is only speech how could it remove your freedoms? Can you explain how it affects you if he uses his right to freedom of speech to call for sharia law ...

If I am just calling for the death of people with the screen name "hopenotfeariswhatweneed", I'm not actually killing anyone named "hopenotfeariswhatweneed", just using my free speech to call for the death of people named "hopenotfeariswhatweneed".

So I guess that is okay.

And if it is, I humbly apologize and will state that I am wrong.

Death to "hopenotfeariswhatweneed"!

(just kidding, I don't really want you to die)

Calling for your death, and not defending you to the death are not, and never will be, the same thing.

Only a lunatic would call for your death.
I'm not a lunatic.

My moral compass just won't allow me to risk my life for abhorrent people.

Paedophiles are calling for the age of consent to be lowered? Have they all got together and formed a pressure group?

I understand what the OP is saying. I wouldn't put myself out either but there is a big difference between ignorance and promotion with intent.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

No it isn't. Get a hold of yourself. The right to free speech only ever means that you are protected from the government punishing you...

not
one
other
thing.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

The suggestion was implicit in your mirroring of Niemoller's quote. Just in case you aren't familiar with Niemoller, I'll fill you in a bit.

Martin Niemoller was an anti-Nazi theologian and preacher who started out supporting Hitler and the Nazis because he felt they would bring Germany back to power. He even expressed anti-Semitic sentiment making him a controversial figure. He eventually came to realize the horrors that were happening and started helping the Jews out as the concentration camps opened up. That particular quote is in reference to his deep regrets that he didn't do more to keep people out of the concentrations camps. Each line references a different group, and in the end, the state came for him too for resisting them. He spent the last years of the Nazi regime in Sachsenhausen and Dachau.

So given the context in the quote, the idea that you mirrored it isn't just a clever reflection, but gives it a sinister quality.

First they came for this group, and I let them take them away to the camps ... and in the end, we were all happy because all those people had been gassed and burned.

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
Give me a good reason to, aside from the "you're no better than" argument.
I won't lose sleep over that.

Read this: www.faithstreet.com...
It was composed by a man much more emotionally intelligent and human than you or I.



ETA: and no, I'm not suggesting I'm any better. There are people in this world who I'd die to avoid helping. If I was in the same room with them, holding a pitcher of water and they suddenly burst into flames, I'd drink the water and piss in the furthest corner from them. That said, there is always value in trying to uplift your own interactions with your enemy.

originally posted by: Whereismypassword

originally posted by: mamabeth

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: ketsuko

Racism and homophobia are politically correct nowadays lol

That's precisely my point and it must have flown over your head.

Just like anyone that doesn't think exactly like you is probably a racist or a homophobe...

No your a racist and a homophobe if you behave like one,you don't understand that?

changed my mind.

a reply to: Kali74

No it isn't. Get a hold of yourself. The right to free speech only ever means that you are protected from the government punishing you...

not
one
other
thing.

That's utterly false. The principle of free speech has been around long before its enactment into law.

a reply to: DBCowboy

Correct me if i am wrong but i believe that freedom of speech does not cover personal threats...

If i am wrong there you absolutely have the right to call for my death..i just would not agree,nor defend your position..

Now i dont suppose you could answer the first question i asked you....thx